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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: judyflute on Tuesday 09 November 10 10:50 GMT (UK)
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I would be really grateful if someone could check this marriage at Manchester Cathedral for me:
18 April 1852
John Brandham* PRIESTHAM to Hannah CLARKE
*I've found this on Family Search but they call John John Bradshaw Priestman
What I'm really interested in are the names of the fathers and the witnesses as I need to know whether I have the right Hannah Clarke
Many thanks,
Judy
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Manchester Cathedral was "weddings on an industrial scale". Mistakes are the norm , and witnesses are normally:professional.
Was your Hannah from Weston Underhill in Derbyshire - She had a sister Mary Clarke, who married a John Orpe?
Her Death:
Dec 1883
PRIESTMAN Hannah 56 Salford 8d 37
His Death:
Sep 1889
Priestman John Brandham 60 Salford 8d 34
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Yes! I'm hoping she is Hannah Clarke from Weston Underwood, Derbyshire. I believe she is the d/o John and Esther who lived in Weston Underwood, if she is then her sister Elizabeth born 1818 is my husband's GG Grandmother. I've found the Orpe/ Clarke link yesterday but am now wondering if John Orpe b1847 s/o John Orpe & Mary Clarke suddenly became known as John Clarke after his mother's death in 1865? I can't find John Orpe but I can find a John Clarke with the same details with a son with Orpe as his middle name.
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Hi Judyflute,
I hope you get a look up offer but just in case no one is going in the short term, Manchester Library offer a postal service at £2.50 including P&P for a copy of the parish register entry. You need to have the exact date and the name of the church and you have both. For an 1852 marriage it should give you all the information that you would get if you ordered a certificate from the GRO which should include the fathers names.
This is the link:-
http://www.manchester.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?categoryID=448&documentID=464&pageNumber=4
The Manchester Cathedral registers seem to be in good condition but as Huckleberry has already said the witnesses were normally the same for each marriage, i.e., professional, probably due to the large number of marriages taking place.
Best of luck
Luzzu
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As the "Unfilmed 1851 Census" is not on Ancestry - here is Hannah:
HO107 Piece:2220 Folio:0 Page:0
6, Chapel Street, Manchester.
ROBINSON, John Head Married M 34 1817 Shoemaker
Manchester,Lancashire
ROBINSON, Hannah Wife Married F 22 1829 Domestic At Home
Manchester, Lancashire
ROBINSON, Joseph Son M 0 (8M) 1851 Infant At Home
Manchester, Lancashire
GILL, Catherine Lodger Unmarried F 40 1811 Bonnet Milliner
Skipton, Yorkshire
CLARKE, Hannah Lodger Unmarried F 23 1828 Bonnet Milliner
Weston U Wood, Derbyshire
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Hello Judy
Don't know if this may help you decide.The Beta site of http://pilot.familysearch.org has four baptisms
in Prestwich,Manchester on 5 August 1877.
Mary Emma PRIESTMAN
Frances Hannah PRIESTMAN
William Henry PRIESTMAN
Robert PRIESTMAN
Father John Brandham PRIESTMAN and mother Hannah.
If connected to the marriage you have posted then I would imagine that these family members were adults at he time of baptism. Sorry cannot help with the look up at Manchester as I am unable to get down there at the moment.
Eric :)
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Thank you Huckleberry, Luzzu and Eric for the help you've given me. I'm now convinced more than ever that Hannah Priestman nee Clark is my husband's GGG Aunt. If no one looks the marriage up at the records office then I will send for a copy of the marriage entry as this I believe holds the key.
Many thanks,
Judy
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1861 census:
RG09 Piece:2971 Folio:96 Page:12
13, Hewitt Street, Cheetham, Manchester
PRIESTMAN, John Head Married M 32 1829 Tailor
Barnsley, Yorkshire
PRIESTMAN, Hannah Wife Married F 33 1828
Weston Underwood, Derbyshire
PRIESTMAN, John J Son M 8 1853 Scholar
Manchester, Lancashire
PRIESTMAN, Jane E Daughter F 4 1857
Manchester, Lancashire
PRIESTMAN, Thomas Son M 2 1859
Manchester, Lancashire
PRIESTMAN, Martha A Daughter F 0 (2M) 1861
Manchester, Lancashire
ORPE, John Nephew Unmarried M 14 1847 Tailors Apprentice
Weston Underwood, Derbyshire
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Thanks for the 1861 census entry. John Orpe b c1847 as you know is Mary Orpe nee Clark's son but from 1871 it gets very confusing in that I think he becomes known as John Clark rather than Orpe and his birthplace changes between Weston Underwood and Manchester on the censuses. I cannot find a baptism for him on the Family Search sites. In 1871 he (John Clark) is in Quarndon with his wife, children and Uncle John Orpe (definitely the widow of Mary) which is confusing but I have also found out that John Clark's son Ernest has the middle name Orpe. I think John Orpe/Clark might have been born a year or two earlier than 1847 and was the illegitimate s/o Mary. She was living in Manchester at this time so it might explain the varying Manchester /Weston Underwood places of birth. John used his stepfather's surname until Mary died in 1865 so perhaps John then reverted to his proper surname of Clark.
Do you think I'm on the right track?
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Hi Judy my 4th great-grandfather was john Clarke and his mother was Mary orpe, I believe there is a connection with your husband.my line through that side starts with my great grandmother who was a Clarke. john orpe was stepfather to john Clarke. I believe Mary had an illegitimate child in Manchester to a Thomas Clarke
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Hi Judy sounds about right
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Hi Declan2001,
If your John Clarke was the son of Mary Clarke who later married John Orpe then yes, you will be related to my husband as Mary Clarke is his 2x great aunt. I must admit I haven't looked at the Orpe or Clarke family for a while. I can confirm that John Clarke/ Orpe named his father as Thomas Clarke on his marriage certificate but I just wonder if just plucked a name out of the hat as he was illegitimate? His mother Mary Clarke was born in Weston Underwood, Derbyshire and baptised in Mugginton, Derbyshire on 10 May 1820. She was the daughter of John Clarke and Esther Bratby. My husband's 2x g grandmother is Mary Clarke's eldest sister Elizabeth born 1818 who moved to Birmingham and married Josiah Cutler. What is noticeable about John Clarke/ Orpe is that he took the Orpe surname and only reverted back to Clarke after his mother's death in 1865.
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interesting. john then went on to have Thomas William Clarke my third great grandfather then he had Thomas henry Clarke
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Adding to this John Orp question.
Mary Clark (1821-1865) was my 3rd Great Grandmother.
I recently discovered her grave in Quarndon, epitaph is shown as Mary Orp buried with husband John (1810-1886).
I heard from another family member that Mary had a illegitimate son, John Clarke 1847-1900 - my 2nd Great Grandfather. If you look at John’s marriage banns Mar 1867 to Hannah Ward, his father is shown as Thomas Clarke not John Orp. Note John’s occupation Tailor.
In 1861 census, John has taken his step-fathers name and is living in Cheetham with his Aunt Hannah Clark(1828-1883) and her husband John Priestman (Tailor). John Clarke-Orp is shown as a Tailor’s apprentice.
Hope that helps