RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Donegal => Topic started by: Bryan Bates on Tuesday 09 November 10 08:15 GMT (UK)
-
The Bates Family lived in the Munterneese area, Donegal, in the early 19th century. The earliest record we have is Joseph Bates who taught at the Wesleyan School there. He died at the age of approximately 70 years old in Munterneese on 20 December 1845 and was buried at Inver Old Church near the Eany River.
We do not know where the family came from or anything about Josephs ancestors or siblings.
He was married to Elizabeth (Eliza) Armstrong. Again little is known about her origins although it is a reasonably common surname in the general area at that time.
If anyone has any information or can give some tips for searching, I would be keen to hear about it. We have a good descendent trail from that point but going back further is a dead end.
-
Elizabeth Bates Town land Munternesses listed on Griffith's valuation of Inver Parish in 1857
http://Freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegal/Invergv.htm
-
Thanks Rathmore.
We have a good record of the family after Joseph Bates death, and Elizabeth continued to live on the property they tenanted for a number of years after Josephs death. Members of our family have even travelled from our home in New Zealand and visited Joseph Bates grave at the Old Inver Church.
We just don't have any information about Joseph and Elizabeths siblings, parents and where they came from. We can surmise based on history and their surnames that the Armstrongs would have arrived as planters from southern Scotland a couple of generations earlier, and the Bates's arrived from England for the same reason. However it would be good to find out more actual details of family members.
-
Unfortunately it's much harder to get details pre-civil registration.
See this topic- Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
-
Yes being on the other side of the world limits our ability to access any remaining databases as well. We estimate we need about a month in Donegal to explore graveyards and other possible sources of information. The family members who have visited said that Letterkenny town held a lot of information but they ran out of time to follow it up.
I was hoping that someone may have already done some of the groundwork.
-
you could have a look a site: http://www.surnamedb.com
this site tells you about your name.
Are you connected with a Robin Atkinson he has a site your family is mention on this site.
the address is http://www.broken-branches.co.uk
when I tried to get into this site it would not let me in.
if you you Google or Ask Jeeves type in the box Muterneese, then go down the page and click on George Bates. or type in the box: Family history compiled by Robin Atkinson
it is possible your family was English came over to Ireland in one of the settlement, the Armstrongs I think were Scottish. Came over to Ireland in the settlement or plantation of Ireland. Depending on your religion. The English RC came to Ireland in the 12th Centry.
-
Yes I am related to Robin. We have been in touch and have hit the same brick wall. The family tree he has put on line stops at the same point.
Hereis the furthest Robin has got to: http://www.broken-branches.co.uk/phpgedview/individual.php?pid=I251&ged=Full%20Tree.GED&tab=0
Thanks for your suggestions. All are welcomed.
-
site: http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com
has Edward Bates Church Marriage 1791 but if you want more information you have to pay.
site: www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml
Marquis of Conyngham was landlord.
A lot of records are held at Proni you can look on site but the office are closed till next year
www.Proni.gov.uk
-
Thanks for the links, I hadn't seen the top two before.
My searches in the past have found two early (pre 1800) groups of Bates family's in Ireland. One around the Dublin area and one in the north. The northern group tends to have Christian names similar to our family so my focus has been there. The problem is finding linkages.
Keep the ideas coming.
-
Most of the townlands were flax seed growers for the Linen Industry cannot find Munterneese on the list for 1791
but Armstrong are listed at townland, Rye, Clonleigh, Stranorlar, Donaghmore, Conwal, Taughboyne
Bates listed at Donaghmore, Tullyaughnish
1857 Bates on Munterneese, also listed are Brogan, Campbell, Coulter, Dunion, Hamilton, Harkin, Keeny, McClure, McGroarty, McLafferty, O'Connell, Scott, Tunny, Walker, Wilson
Most townland were made up on family all relatived to one and other.
1911 Census, Brogan, Campbell, Coulter, Hamilton, Keeny, McClure, McLafferty, Scott, Wilson are still on Munterneese.
Townlands had Valuation books,
National Library Of Ireland, Kildare Street, Dublin 2, Ireland. e-mail: info(at)nli.ie (change the (at) for a (@)
also Public Records Office, Ruskin Ave, Kew, Richmond, Surrey, England. holds at lot of Irish records.
-
Donegal Ancestry by Lindel Buckley:- Badly Weathered Sandstone Table, Here lieth the remains of Joseph Bates, who departed this life 20/12/1845 Age 55, he was a schoolmaster under the Wesley Missionary Society for upwards of 20years.
-
Thanks Rathmore. Excellent. I haven't visited that website for awhile and that section is a new addition.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegal/oldinverGY.htm
Yes that is my ancestors grave. The family have visited it. However it does not provide any information about where he came from. His age may be incorrect as well. He must have been educated to have been a teacher. I assume therefore he may have at least spent time in a major town to gain an education. Some of his children lived in St Helens near Liverpool at various times so there could be a connection there.
-
Hi, Have traced my relatives back to Munterneese, Mountcharles, Co Donegal, Ireland. Names, Thomas Scott born June 23, 1825. He married a Margaret Colter or Coulter, born August 14, 1835. We believe Thomas's parents to be Edward Scott and Jane Harkin or Harkins. Margaret's mother's name may have been Mary Clay. I understand Munterneese was quite a small area of Mountcharles and I saw the Scott name in your tree. Any connection? Any help I can get in finding more about my relatives would be greatly appreciated. I am at a brick wall!
Thank you!
-
Thomas Scott ( Born 20 Feb 1822 in Dromore, Donegal and died 3 Aug 1867 in Munterneese) married Eliza Ann Bates on 4 Jan 1866 at the Parish Church in Mt Charles. Their son Andrew Bates Scott was born 4 Nov 1866. I don't have any more information on this Thomas.
-
Very interesting. Munterneese was such a small area from what my research shows. It seems like such a coincidence that there were two Thomas Scott's there at that time. They are definitely not the same one because the birth dates and spouses are different. Thanks for your reply though. I appreciate it.
-
Keep in touch if you break through the brick wall.
-
I definitely will. Thank you.
-
I noticed some Scotts in the Old Inver graveyard. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegal/oldinverGY.htm
-
My ongoing investigations to find where Joseph Bates came from made me review all the information collected so far. I looked again at the flaxgrowers of 1796 in Donegal list and found:
Armstrong George Donaghmore Donegal
and
Bates David Donaghmore Donegal
Often christian names of grandparents are given to first and second born.
Joseph Bates and Elizabeth Armstrong had a first child named George Bates and a second child they named David Bates.
Seems too coincidental that two people lived in Donaghmore with the same surnames as my ancestors, while the children of my ancestors had the same christian names. My focus is now on Donaghmore.
An interesting search site is http://www.cotyroneireland.com/index.html
Does anyone else have any other suggestions for information in the Donaghmore area?
-
Some of the Bates family moved to St Helens, and one son, Charles Bates took his family to Philadelphia. Charles and his family returned to Liverpool in late 1863. I am looking for the passenger list that shows his return.
There are a lot of lists out of Liverpool to the USA but where do I find lists for passengers coming into Liverpool in 1863?
-
My mother was Margaret Rebecca Bates - father John George Orr Bates - mother Matilda Thompson.(Letterkenny) The family came from Carnowen. Donaghamore. I have the family traced to 1850. The Bates family appear to have come from Garrison Hill.
My Grandfather's brother was David Roulston Bates.
Do you have any information that would connect my Bates family to your research?
Regards
Alan
-
Hi Alan,
None of those names are familiar or show up in my research. There may be a connection a generation or two earlier as the location is close to where my research has been. Therefore let me know if you find anything further back.
cheers
Bryan
-
Hi Bryan & everyone. Some of you may know I am also descended from Joseph & Elizabeth BATES.
Joseph & Elizabeth BATES' offspring carried the middle names HEYES, ARMSRONG and GUSTAVUS.
I think that some of these are maiden surnames of female ancestors.
HEYES is an unusual surname but I have noted it seems to be relatively common in St Helens.
named.publicprofiler.org maps places in the UK where 'surnames have a historically unusually high local population.' (maps attached to this post)
'named' does not state the data sources used, 'historical' date range, or whether or not data is weighted to allow for population density, etc.
The search results are therefore qualitative, but informative nonetheless.
The surname maps of ARMSTRONG and HEYES suggest a strong ancestral connection with Lancashire.
I therefore think that the BATES had family connections with Lancashire/ St Helens prior to the 1840s, and this is why they returned there when they left Ireland.
For the same reasons I am sceptical about the BATES & ARMSTRONG families being descended from Scottish planters.
If GUSTAVUS is a surname, it is rare in the UK.
-
Update on the Bates family of Garrison Hill.
Samuel Bates m.1836 Catherine Temple of Bohanboy. He had at least 2 sons James 1856-1922.m.1877 Jane Rutherford of Carricknamanna, john 1854-1921 m. 1884 Donghmore Presbtrn Ch. Margaret Roulston 1856-1917.
Cheers
Jack Gee
-
Update on the Bates family of Garrison Hill.
Samuel Bates m.1836 Catherine Temple of Bohanboy. He had at least 2 sons James 1856-1922.m.1877 Jane Rutherford of Carricknamanna, john 1854-1921 m. 1884 Donghmore Presbtrn Ch. Margaret Roulston 1856-1917.
Cheers
Jack Gee
For reference-
James Bates died 1922-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1922/05073/4391497.pdf
James Bates married 1877-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1877/11124/8073210.pdf
John Bates married 1884-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1884/10901/5981854.pdf
Wife Margaret died 1917-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1917/05208/4439978.pdf
Don't think this has been posted yet-
https://irelandxo.com/ireland/donegal/donaghmore/message-board/samuel-bates-garrisonhill-married-catherine-temple
-
Also for reference-
John Bates died 1921 in Belfast.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1921/05092/4398152.pdf
-
Reply #20
Margaret Rebecca Bates - father John George Orr Bates - mother Matilda Thompson.
Marriage of parents - 30 October 1918 at Convoy Presbyterian Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1918/09728/5529776.pdf
Margaret Rebecca Bates born 30 August 1919 at Carnone [sic].
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1919/01232/1512524.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/donegal/raphoe-south/donaghmore/castlefinn/carnowen/
-
Bates in 1911 census
House 4 in Carnowen (Castlefinn, Donegal).
(Bates John G O 19 Male Son Presbyterian)
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Castlefinn/Carnowen/504921/
-
Two younger Bates siblings of Margaret Rebecca-
Gertrude Morrison Bates 1921, Desmond Thompson Bates 1923.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01td6/
John George Bates born 2 April 1892. MMN Roulston
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02347/1877615.pdf
1901 census - Bates - Carnowen
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Castlefinn/Carnowen/1195132/
-
Catherine Bates (in 1911 census- reply #27 above) married Albert Francis Ross on 3 May 1916 at Carnowen Presbyterian Church. Her witness was her younger brother A M (Albert) Bates.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1916/09778/5549333.pdf
Albert Ross was a farmer living at Woodend, Strabane.
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/strabane-lower/leckpatrick/ballymagorry/woodend/
-
Catherine Bates (in 1911 census- reply #27 above) married Albert Francis Ross on 3 May 1916 at Carnowen Presbyterian Church. Her witness was her younger brother A M (Albert) Bates.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1916/09778/5549333.pdf
Albert Ross was a farmer living at Woodend, Strabane.
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/strabane-lower/leckpatrick/ballymagorry/woodend/
Ross children up to end of 1921-
Margaret Winslow Ross born 30 May 1917
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01304/1539480.pdf
Albert Ramsey Ross born 16 August 1918
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1918/01272/1527594.pdf
John Mitchell Ross born 15 January 1920
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01224/1509316.pdf
-
Martha Jane Bates (in 1901 census - reply #28) married John Alexander Colhoun on 14 August 1907 at Carnowen Presbyterian Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1907/10098/5673875.pdf
-
Colhoun children (MMN Bates)-
Mary Allison Colhoun born 10 August 1908
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1908/01635/1653732.pdf
Margaret Roulston Colhoun born 24 April 1910
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01560/1630088.pdf
Charles Norman Colhoun born 9 May 1911
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01510/1613485.pdf
John Bates Colhoun born 16 July 1913
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01431/1586925.pdf
Henry George Colhoun born 3 November 1914
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01387/1570570.pdf
-
My Grandfather's brother was David Roulston Bates.
David Roulston Bates (in 1911 census- reply #27 above) married Jeanie Ramsey Millar on 25 February 1919 at Ballygowan Presbyterian Church, Co Down.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09664/5504364.pdf
Son John Aubry? Bates born ? February? 1920 at Donaghadee. #26
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01227/1510813.pdf
GRONI
U/1923/200/1024/15/43 James Bates 8th March 1923 Male Millar Newtownards
-
Son John Aubry? Bates born ? February? 1920 at Donaghadee. #26
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01227/1510813.pdf
Henry George Colhoun born 3 November 1914
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01387/1570570.pdf
Henry George Colhoun married Kathleen Mary McCandless on 24 June 1942 at Alt Presbyterian Church, Urney Co Donegal. One of the witnesses was John Aubrey Bates.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1942/08799/5180486.pdf