RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: tesscawley on Saturday 06 November 10 14:32 GMT (UK)
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Can some one please tell me why the Birth, Marriage and Death Index Records and be viewed through certain web sites but The Adoption Index Records can only be viewed at one of the Family Records Offices. I live overseas and as such can't get to one of these centers.
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Adoption records are indexed as any other birth. If you know the adoptive name, you can get the adoption certificate.
If you know the birth name you can find the record indexed as usual and can get that certificate.
Neither will link to the other.
The adoption register which links the birth record and the adoption record are kept by the General Register Office, and aren't available for searching.
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tesscawley is probably referring to this entry at
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevents/Familyhistoryandresearch/DG_175464
Viewing full copies of the indexes
Copies of the indexes can no longer be purchased but a complete set, including ‘Births, Deaths and Marriages from 1837 – 2008’, ‘Overseas from 1761 – 2008’, ‘Civil Partnerships from 2005 – 2009’, ‘Adoptions from 1927 – 2009’, and the provisional indexes for ‘Births and Deaths from 2009 to June 2010', are available at:
* Manchester City Library
* Birmingham Central Library
* Bridgend Reference and Information Library
* Plymouth Central Library
* City of Westminster Archives Centre
* London Metropolitan Archives (closed for stock-taking 30 October - 14 November 2010)
* The British Library*
Stan
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Yes. The adoptions mentioned are just the normal record when an adoption is recorded. If you know the adoptive name you can look up the index registration. It will be on ancestry.
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I am referring to the Adoption INDEX records (not the adoption record). I know they are available for viewing at the Family Records Centers. I am not in the UK but overseas.
I want to know a good reason why these Adoption Index Records are not available online. I have been a member of Ancestry for a long time and they are not there.
The Genealogist had then on line for about 10 days and I managed to copy a few pages before they were made to remove them, so I know what information is in the Index Records.
I am trying to trace someone. I have their original birth certificate and went the correct way of finding out which adoption agency was involved and it cost a lot of money to use an intermediary, who has now given up and is filing everything away in case the person ever contacts them.
As far as I can see this is a money machine for the intermediary's and that is why it is not available on line.
I also know by elimination it is possible to work out the adopted name, having looked at the copies I have and this is the only way that I can move forward. A tedious time consuming task I know but already I have been 4 years going in circles trying the "official" route.
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What do you mean by the 'adoption index records'? I understood that the adoption was re-registered in the normal BMDs.
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Well ....... looks like they DID come online for a very short period. The separate record of the new name that the child was registered with.
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I am going to try and describe from a page in front of me headed Public Index to Adopted Children Register 1947-1951". They were grouped in clusters of a few years at a time.
First column in the new adopted surname followed by the new adopted first names.
Second column is the year of birth
Third column is the date of entry (that would be the date of the finalization of adoption) (therefore if a child is adopted at birth one can expect this date to be roughly 6 months after the birth)
Fourth column is the entry number.
Fifth column is the volume number.
The page that I have has 2 sets of columns per page.
I tried your link but as I am not registered with them I couldn't see what you were referring to but was probably the same as The Genealogist ... the page that I have just described to you. I am actually looking for the year 1956.
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I see what you're trying to do.
Someone in that thread has said the same as you, that if they are available at certain centres, then perhaps they should be online.
They don't link to the original birth record and the new names should be in the ordinary BMDs, but you're trying to piece one to the other by this method.
I suppose it's possible. But if it was that easy then there wouldn't be people still looking after many years.
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I have heard of and know other people who have been successful with this when all else fails. I must stress that it would take some time and a lot of research.
As there is no obvious link between this Adoption Index and the Birth Index, I can think see no logical reason why they should not be on line.
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They were instructed by the GRO to remove the public adoption index from their site in 2006.
Stan
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Yes, I know, that's my point but why?
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Perhaps it's something to do with the data protection act...
Not all adoptees would want their information out there. Just a thought
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What do you mean by the 'adoption index records'? I understood that the adoption was re-registered in the normal BMDs.
I don't think they are - at least not all cases are.
I have my Grandfather's original birth certificate and I have his adoption certificate but there is no "birth index" entry for him in his adopted name.
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Oh. Well I stand corrected. And I'll bear it in mind for the future. Everything I've read says that the re-registration (of the adoption record) is entered again into the BMDs.
Unfortunately I've no-one about whom I can check this.
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Every birth, adoption, marriage, civil partnership or death registered in England or Wales has a General Register Office (GRO) index reference number. It usually consists of the year, volume number, page number and district in which the event was registered.
When ordering a birth, adoption, marriage, civil partnership or death certificate, quoting the certificate index reference reduces the time it takes to find the record. This means you will receive your certificate sooner.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevents/Familyhistoryandresearch/DG_175464
Stan
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If you do find an entry in the Adopted Childrens Index, you can't just order the certificate with the reference numbers as you would with a birth, marriage or death.
You have to give the adopted name, and the date of birth which isn't shown in the index. All adopted children are given a short form birth cert, if you have a copy of this you will know the date of birth.
I think you may also have to give the names of the adoptive parents too as you do with a recent birth.
Dawn
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On ordering an original birth certificate it stated that this person had been adopted. Having a very unusual full name I was able to order his marriage certificate in his adoptive name. This was later confirmed by family, as he had been adopted by his mothers second husband although none of her other children were.
I didn't find a re-registration of birth in his adoptive name in the BMD's either.
Ambers
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If you do find an entry in the Adopted Childrens Index, you can't just order the certificate with the reference numbers as you would with a birth, marriage or death.
You have to give the adopted name, and the date of birth which isn't shown in the index. All adopted children are given a short form birth cert, if you have a copy of this you will know the date of birth.
I think you may also have to give the names of the adoptive parents too as you do with a recent birth.
Dawn
See http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevents/Familyhistoryandresearch/Birthmarriageanddeathcertificates/DG_175654
Stan
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My adopted brother was born in 1936. His birth name is recorded on the GRO index and is shown on FreeBMD. Although I believe there is sometimes a note made on this index that the person has been adopted, in his case there is none. The names which he was given by my parents, so his adoptive and legal names, do not appear elsewhere on this index. In order to discover his birth name he had to apply to Kew and receive counselling, after which he was given a copy of his original birth certificate. This was about 5 years ago, so the procedure may have changed since then, of course. The intention was to protect both the birth parents and the adopted child, should either not wish to be traced. At that time if the birth mother wished to contact her child this would be recorded, and if her child discovered his original birth details and expressed a wish to contact his birth mother the two would be put in touch with each other though that office.
I believe that if the adopted person is dead, then only very close relatives will be permitted to receive this information.
Gillg
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See Find your original birth or adoption record
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevents/Birthandadoptionrecords/Adoptionrecords/DG_175567
Stan
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There is only ever one entry in the Birth Index and that is the birth record. This shows the name given to the child at birth. If the child is then adopted it will subsequently be marked "adopted".
There is no easy link between the Birth Index at the GRO and The Adoption Index. The Adoption Index contains the name of the adopted child, his / her new name.
What the Index does give you is the year of birth and date of registration of adoption through the court. Therefore if a child is born in October 1956 and adopted from birth you can expect it to go through the courts roughly six months later. So by deduction you would look at the first six months of the Index for 1957. Therefor in the Index of 1957 this entry would show a birth of 1956 but the date of entry couldn't be before December 1956 / January 1957.
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But as I remarked earlier, in the case of my adopted brother, although his original birth name is shown in the GRO Index, there is no note against it to say that he was adopted. (I've looked at the scan of the original on Free BMD.) So that clue isn't always there to help the search and you would need to go through all the boys or girls born around the birth date you have. Even the place of birth wouldn't help - my brother was born in Cornwall and adopted in Lancashire.
Gillg
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The index isn't marked as adopted the birth certificate is maked as adopted.
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Correct. You need to look at the actual Birth Certificate, it is that that has the notation of "Adopted" on it, not the Index Records
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Just a thought - "adopted" on a Birth Certificate does not always mean Adopted out of a family, it can mean Step parent Adoption - the Mother may marry and the husband wishes to adopt the child, the Biological mother has to adopt the child too this is due to a technicality and parental responsibility, it is legally similar to a full adoption - and there will be an adoption file, social service reports, court papers, an entry in the adopted children register and an adoption certificate, there will be no public online index of any adoption be it handled through local authority or agency or step parent.
The adopted parents will be entered on the adoption certificate - the Mother will appear in her married name with no reference to her maiden or former names.