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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: womud on Friday 05 November 10 19:55 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find francis Watsons family. Francis was born around 1843 his mothers name was Ellenor and on his marriage certificate his father is listed as william. I think they were catholic or he converted as my Grandfather one of francis sons Robert Watson was catholic and his children including my mother went to a catholic school.
I know Francis married Ellen Mcphillips born in liverpool. They married in 1869 in Tynemouth.
Any help would be appreciated
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Hi
Francis was born around 1843
Was he born in Northumberland or elsewhere please. The only one I can find in 1871 was b Liverpool 1840 and wife Ellen was b Liverpool also in 1840
If you have them on the 1881 census will you please post full details
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the 1881,1891,1901 and 1911 all say he was born in north shields the all list his birth as 1847/48.
1881 census details are
Frank Watson
Age: 33
my grand father was born 1889 his name was robert and is listed on the 1891 census
Is this helpful?
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Thank you - your opening post gives his birthyear as 1843 which is why I could not find him
Francis was born around 1843
What was his fathers occupation on the marriage cert
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In 1871 he is shown as Frank Watson aged 21 so birthyear 1850. Wife Ellen is shown as Phillips
1871 ref is RG10 Piece 5113 Folio 36 Page 30
1861 again shown as Frank - reference is RG9 Piece 3837 Folio 49 Page 11
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Thanks for your help. on the fmarriage certificate it just says william was dead.
I cannot find a william watson marrying an ellanor I am sure that would help me.
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How do you know his mother was Eleanor?
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I cannot find a william watson marrying an ellanor I am sure that would help me.
What about the September qtr 1847 entry? 2 possible Eleanors on the same page
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the 1851 census lists francis father as francis although the birth date is seems incorrect the sibbling names match the 1861 census they say that Frances senior was a waterman in the 1861 census it states that ellen was a seamans widow. George G was 6 when the 1861 census so I would assume that francis died between 1851 and 1855.
1851 census
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sorry Francis death date would be between 1855 and 1861
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Just checked the Marriage certificate of Francis to Ellen Mcphillips and it definatley says his fathers name was william and he was a keelman but deceased which does not tie in with the name on the cesus...am I going insane or am I tracing the wrong line......the more I find out the more I find out I don't know. Any help would be appreciated.
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Hi
See my reply above
How do you know his mother was Eleanor?
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from the 1851 and 1861 census
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Sorry - but your reply does not make sense. This is your opening post
I am trying to find francis Watsons family. Francis was born around 1843 his mothers name was Ellenor and on his marriage certificate his father is listed as william
(we now now that you gave the wrong birthyear and it should be 1847/48)
You then mention finding him on the 1881-1911 censuses but no mention of anything earlier. Your post gives the impression you cannot find him with his family on earlier censuses hence the request
The 1861 entry I found had a mother Eleanor - but she was a widow
I could not find him with a mother Eleanor and a father William in 1851 which is why I asked how you knew his mother was Eleanor
Are you just assuming it was Eleanor?
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Sorry Carole, I appreciate your time in helping me.
Sorry for the confusion. Maybe I an making assumptions after 20 years of looking we sometimes get into a mind set.
In the 1851 census I have a Frances married to an Eleanor who have a son John, Frances and a daughter Mary Ann. This Frances is a Waterman which all ties into the 1861 census where Eleanor is a widow.
In the 1881 Census a few doors away to francis (frank) there is a Ellen Watson living a widow who is a char lady.
Do you think I an on the wrong track?
This side of the family has lead me a marry dance, now with new info coming together it is helpful.
I have found a Willian Watson marrying a hannah but have dismissed it maybe this is the line I need to follow.
Thank you for being a sounding board, a fresh perspective is always help ful.
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Whe searching using the 1843 original birthyear - I also saw that 1851 entry but had to dismiss it as you say his father is William on his marriage cert and no occupation to compare with. The birthyear for that Francis is 1845
The 1861 entry with widowed mother Eleanor links back to that 1851 entry with a father Francis
There is no Frank/Francis Watson on the 1851 with a father William that fits with an 1847/48 birthyear
There is one with a father William (bricklayer) and mother Hannah who was b 1843/44 but again - I had to dismiss that one as well as you said his mother was Eleanor. However - William & Hannah are not the right parents as they are both still alive in 1871 whereas William was deceased on Francis's 1869 marriage cert
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Thanks again Carole
I guess I will start again just with the basics I know that his father was William and and Keelman and he was dead in 1869. IN the 1871/1881/ 1891 & 1901 census they list Fracncis/franks as been born 1847/48.
Thank you for your help again I will see how I go.
Regards
Womud
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I know that his father was William
Unfortunately you don't. You only know that it is the name he gave for his father when he married.
Many illegitimate children made up a fathers name when they married so as to appear "respectable" and invariably - that "father" was deceased at the time so no questions could be asked.
Many also used grandfathers and uncles names
You now say that William was a keelman on the marriage cert but when I asked you that question - this was your reply
What was his fathers occupation on the marriage cert
Your reply
on the fmarriage certificate it just says william was dead.
Were either of the witnesses to the marriage surname Watson
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You may find this interesting
The Keelmen of Tyne and Wear were a group of men who worked on the keels, large boats that carried the coal from the banks of both rivers to the waiting collier ships. Because of the shallowness of both rivers, it was difficult for ships of any significant draught to move up river and load with coal from the place where the coal reached the riverside. Thus the need for shallow-draught keels to transport the coal to the waiting ships. The keelmen formed a close-knit and colourful community on both rivers until their eventual demise late in the nineteenth century.
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That is very interesting, there are not watsons listed as witness on the marriage certificate.
Any ideas where to go on this line.....do I just look for a francis born in 1847/48.
this has always been a hard line. Francis wife ellen Mcphillips was born in liverpool and her mother is listed as a honor mcphillips maiden name kennedy and father bernard mcphillips who was born in Cavan Ireland. NO record of a marriage to bernard mcphillips and honor kennedy I have found bernard in the 1951 census but no honor anywhere. Bernard marries again and I have him in later cesus in one living close to Ellen. Thank you for taking the time to help.
Regards
Womud
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Carole just looking again at the marriage certificate and I know they are roman catholic, is there any roman catholic records of tynemouth on line that I could search?
Thanks
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Sorry - I haven't a clue
Perhaps somebody with more localised knowledge of the area could help with some info
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Hi,
I'm not aware of any Catholic Church registers online. St. Cuthbert's Church was the RC church in North Shields and records are held at Tyne & Wear archives:
baptisms: 1807-1809 and 1840-1952
Marriages: 1821-1931
Deaths; 1856-1955
I don't know if the Church itself keeps copies. Address:
St. Cuthbert,
Albion Road West,
North Shields,
NE29 0JB
Regards,
Trini.