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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: seek10 on Wednesday 03 November 10 00:12 GMT (UK)

Title: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki *COMPLETED*
Post by: seek10 on Wednesday 03 November 10 00:12 GMT (UK)
Hello all,

I am seeking information (and hopefully other family members!) on Harvey Thomson, born 1854 in Fraserburgh, Aberdeen, Scotland, and died in Eltham, South Taranaki, NZ in 1924. He came to NZ in 1868, and possibly came with his sisters, Jessie Chalmers Thomson (married William Trimble in 1875) and Antoinette Ellen Thomson (married Frederick Ireson Jones of Wanganui in 1882). Harvey Thomson married Rachel Hall in 1883 in Normanby, South Taranaki, NZ. Harvey was a butcher with a shop in Eltham, as well as a member of the first borough council of Eltham in 1901.

I have ordered certificates and made good use of all the online services, such as the cemetery databases, BDM and Papers Past, so I’m now trying to ‘match’ the information to provide the story of Harvey Thomson and his life in NZ.

Any information on Harvey and his family would be most appreciated!

Warm regards
Catherine
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: johnbarr on Wednesday 03 November 10 00:50 GMT (UK)
You might already have these children from BDM
1884/11757   Thomson    Harvey Chalmers
1887/9599   Thomson    Jessie Rachel    
1889/12554   Thomson    Stanley Arthur
1891/13483   Thomson    Emily Alice    
1893/17076   Thomson    Antoinette Ellen
1895/9614   Thomson    Annie Elizabeth
1898/4519   Thomson    Douglas    
1899/9186   Thomson    Hester    

Harvey Chalmers enrolled at Hawera School, 8 Apr 1884 and died at age 12 1896

John B
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: seek10 on Wednesday 03 November 10 02:33 GMT (UK)
Hi John,

Thanks for this information. My greatgrandmother is Antoinette, and she was born in Hurleyville in South Taranaki, where her father (Harvey) was a farmer. I am quite keen to learn more about the area at that time and other children you have mentioned - I have some information via the BDM and hope to follow their lines as well. There are also a couple of other children listed on the BDM, but are tricky to find due to typos - Lewis (b 1885), Mary Allan (b 1902), and William Horace Duncan (b 1904) - however, I would need to order the certificates to ensure these are actually the children of my Harvey and Rachel. The name William Horace Duncan seems a little random!

Cheers
Catherine
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: johnbarr on Wednesday 03 November 10 02:48 GMT (UK)
William Horace Duncan b. 24 Feb 1904, Eltham, parents H & R Thomson - looks like one of yours alright  ;D

John B
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: johnbarr on Wednesday 03 November 10 02:51 GMT (UK)
He married 21 May 1929
1929/3486   Try-phena Adelaide    Courtney    William Horace Duncan    Thomson

John B
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: johnbarr on Wednesday 03 November 10 02:53 GMT (UK)
Tryphena died 1938
1938/25916   Thomson    Tryphena Adelaide    46Y

John B
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: johnbarr on Wednesday 03 November 10 03:03 GMT (UK)
Then he married Olive Elizabeth Thomas, 1940.
She died 1985
1985/41211   Thomson    Olive Elizabeth    9 April 1918

Cannot see where either Olive or William Horace are buried.
He died a year later.

John B
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: johnbarr on Wednesday 03 November 10 03:12 GMT (UK)
Mary Allan Thomson b. 1 Dec 1901, Eltham, parents H & R Thomson - looks like yours again.  ;D

She married 1928
1928/4693   Mary Allan    Thomson    John Alexander    Watkins
Died 1973
1973/49432   Watkins    Mary Allen [sic]   1 December 1901


John B
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: seek10 on Wednesday 03 November 10 03:27 GMT (UK)
I've just checked the South Taranaki cemetery database. William and Olive are buried next to each other at the Hawera General Presbyterian. Tryphena is at Opunake General...
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: Thamesite2017 on Wednesday 03 November 10 05:25 GMT (UK)
Electoral rolls
1893 Harvey is living at STRATFORD and a butcher
1896 Harvey is at ELTHAM, a butcher, Rachel - household duties
Bye
Althea
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: Thamesite2017 on Wednesday 03 November 10 05:34 GMT (UK)
There are also a stockman as well?
1893 a Harvey thomson who is a stockman at Otaki electorate, koputoroa Kereu

rate entry
THOMPSON  HARVEY  ELTHAM  1899/1900  -  -  1899/1900  SECS 4 & 5 BLK 10 NGAIRE 
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~sooty/ratebook1894-1900-Q-Z.html

Would have thought name fairly unique..but maybe not
Bye
Althea
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: seek10 on Wednesday 03 November 10 08:05 GMT (UK)
Thank you both for your information - it's great!

There is another Harvey Thomson/Thompson, who was from Invercargill and travelled up to Wanganui in 1871 to be the clerk to the resident magistrates court in Wanganui. I am yet to find out if he is connected to my Thomson family. I am still looking for Harvey's father, also named Harvey Thomson (born 1825), who I've lost track of after the death of his wife, Jessie Chalmers in Scotland. Going back another generation, his father (the original Harvey Thomson born in 1790) was an indigo planter in Java. An interesting family - other researchers had lost them in the mid 1850s - they never knew they travelled all the way to NZ. Would love to know what brought them out here - I wonder if they followed other family members?
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: seek10 on Friday 19 November 10 20:00 GMT (UK)
I have come a little bit further in my research regarding Harvey Thomson/Thompson Snr (1835-?). I have just received a certificate (a marriage cert of one of Harvey Thomson Jnr sisters) that says that he was a clerk of the court. However, I still need some more information to confirm that he is in fact the father of my great great grandfather, and I cannot seem to locate a death date. I have information from PapersPast and online that state from 6 Nov 1865 Harvey Thomson Snr was employed as a Clerk, Resident Magistrate's Court in Wanganui, Registration and Returning Officer and Deputy Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages.

Does anyone have any ideas of where to search next?
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: Eyesee on Friday 19 November 10 21:17 GMT (UK)
Not sure where you are in NZ, but the Alexandra Room at the Wanganui Library has an extensive card index of the Wanganui newspapers. BGound to be something in there about them.

Someone else may know if they will do lookups, or someone in Wanganui who is a member of RC may do it for you.

Ian C
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: johnbarr on Friday 19 November 10 21:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Catherine,

I can see there could be some confusion if there were in fact two Harvey Thomsons in NZ at the same time.  ;D

From your comments, it would appear that is so....
I have information from PapersPast and online that state from 6 Nov 1865 Harvey Thomson Snr was employed as a Clerk etc
and from your first post
He came to NZ in 1868

A Harvey Thomson was mentioned in the NZ Gazette for 1870, on page 80.  It might help if you were to check that entry. Instructions for contact are here
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0aay/

John B
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: johnbarr on Friday 19 November 10 21:45 GMT (UK)
There is a Harvey Thomson, buried 9 Mar 1870 at Invercargill
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0agf/

I can not see this death at BDM under Thomson or Thompson, so might have been mis-transcribed.

Might be worth an enquiry to Invercargill to try and get more detail. ???

John B
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: seek10 on Friday 19 November 10 21:54 GMT (UK)
The date of arrival in NZ was estimated from Harvey Thomson Jnr's death certificate - and we all know how reliable those details can be! His sisters' death certificates give an arrival date of 1869, so there is a little variation there - although I suppose they could have come out on different ships. I am yet to find their entry into NZ. I am dealing with a son and a father of the same name - with the father being the clerk and the son being the butcher/Eltham councillor... fun stuff! It's still possible that HT the clerk is not related - when I could find some info about his death it might help to confirm or deny this.


Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki
Post by: seek10 on Friday 19 November 10 21:57 GMT (UK)
Hi John,

Yes - good idea, I will contact Invercargill. HT the clerk was charged with embezzlement in 1871 and acquitted on the 7 May 1872, so that would narrow down the options. Perhaps there are three Harvey Thomsons in NZ at that time!
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki *COMPLETED*
Post by: J.J. on Tuesday 19 February 13 03:35 GMT (UK)
I imagine you'd seen this, but will post this submission...although it may only follow one child  for the sister Antoinette, and as you say, not accurate as she was born 15 April 1858 Rathen, Aberdeenshire and their datewould have been mixed up with he marriage date I imagine??
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SPGH-S35

I have Thomson in in Fraserburgh as well, but they also moved around...and have left them alone for a while to sort things out... J.J.
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki *COMPLETED*
Post by: seek10 on Tuesday 19 February 13 04:03 GMT (UK)
Hi J.J.,
Thanks so much for that link - i had not seen it. Like you, I decided to give the Thomson family a bit of a rest for a while... researching from NZ takes a bit of time (and funds) so any little bit of information is fantastic. I started researching the family a couple of years ago - until then our branch of the Thomson family had simply 'vanished' from Scotland - little did anyone know that they had made a new life for themselves in New Zealand. Three generations of 'Harvey Thomson' also proved a bit challenging - still looking for more info on them first two Harveys - the are interesting characters!
Thanks again!
Catherine
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki *COMPLETED*
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 20 February 13 01:06 GMT (UK)
Have you started a thread in Aberdeen? One you have the right questions they can take you back a bit.... Here's a publication where Jessie just married seems to be trying to get her estate cleared up, as her father Lewis died Sept. 1850 and she's just married  ( Nov 14 1852)
 http://www.rootschat.com/links/0sz4/
Note this begins well before my bookmark...Have fun...This court case must have set a precedent as it is discussed in further publications as well...
So Jessie Chalmers was born to Lewis Chalmers & Jessie Kelman all of which you've likely already seen on the family search site...

This family of Kelmans had some knowledge of the system...as you'll see Lewis was a solicitor,  and his son a Baillie of Fraserburgh
and here is a rellie right here on rootschat! Have fun with the Kelman/Chalmers side of your searches...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=425808.0

A Lewis Chalmers Kelman died Maitland http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13546848
You never know where you'll find your Chalmers!
http://books.google.ca/books?id=tcql-Pq7g7UC&pg=PA14

Please inform me by p.m. if you start a thread in Aberdeen for your Fraserbugh Thomson family.. I am interested to see if we are distant cousins!
I just found that you already had a thread on Antoinette...and note you say that Harvey Sr. went elsewhere? or were there other Harveys in this line?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=512578.0
 
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki *COMPLETED*
Post by: thomo68 on Wednesday 15 April 15 00:52 BST (UK)
Hi, William Thomson was my Grandfather who married Olive Thomson, my great Grandfather was a butcher, I would say the Harvey is my great grandfather, I have his diary from 1924,it was passed down to me,it finished midway through year so it would mean he passed away in 1924,I have asked an aunty if this is correct.
Yes grandma and granddad are buried side by side, they both had cancer...she was 67 and he 82...
I hope you are still looking at your posts.

Regards

David
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki *COMPLETED*
Post by: thomo68 on Wednesday 15 April 15 01:19 BST (UK)
Yes Harvey is my great grandfather...last entry into diary was 17/05/24...was a Saturday ..was given to Harvey by Hester, Mary and William
All I can say is WOW :)

David
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki *COMPLETED*
Post by: Janette on Wednesday 15 April 15 03:00 BST (UK)
death
1924/2494   Thomson    Harvey       69Y

narrowing down the date he died 20/5/1924

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki *COMPLETED*
Post by: Janette on Wednesday 15 April 15 03:08 BST (UK)
Harvey and Rachel's  burial details

Record Number :    4616
Name :    Estate of Harvey Thomson
Section :    Eltham General Presbyterian
New Plot ID :    1151
Block :    4
Row :    
Old Plot No :    32
Interment Status :    Occupied
Funeral Co-ordinator :    R J Pepperell Undertaker
Date Of Death :    20/05/1924
Date Of Interment :    22/05/1924    
Type Of Interment :    Burial
Depth Of Plot :    Single
Deceased Age - Years :    69   
Occupation :    BUTCHER
Denomination :    Presbyterian
Officiating :    Reverend Orange


Record Number :    4618
Name :    Estate of Rachel Thomson
Section :    Eltham General Presbyterian
New Plot ID :    1151
Block :    4
Row :    
Old Plot No :    33
Interment Status :    Occupied
Date Of Death :    19/09/1935
Date Of Interment :    21/09/1935
Type Of Interment :    Burial
Depth Of Plot :    Single
Deceased Age - Years :    75    
Occupation :    WIDOW
Denomination :    Presbyterian
Officiating :    Reverend J Ryburn

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki *COMPLETED*
Post by: thomo68 on Wednesday 15 April 15 04:53 BST (UK)
Next time I go pass Eltham, I will look up their plots, and to think all the years I worked at the meat works, I never knew :)

David
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki *COMPLETED*
Post by: seek10 on Wednesday 15 April 15 10:12 BST (UK)
Hi, I'm the original poster... My great great grandfather is Harvey Thomson (1854-1924; the butcher), and one of his daughters, Antoinette Ellen Thomson (1893-1973) , is my great grandmother.
It literally gives me goosebumps that you have his diary - how amazing to see his penmanship!
Title: Re: Harvey Thomson and Rachel Hall of Taranaki *COMPLETED*
Post by: thomo68 on Wednesday 15 April 15 10:21 BST (UK)
Hi
Very hard to read as in its not something you see every day...he started by mentioning the weather and ended with no letters or visitors most days,the rest to hard to make out...his shoe size was 8...how amazing :)