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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: esdel on Tuesday 02 November 10 16:48 GMT (UK)
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I am having trouble finding the parents and grandparents of these children:-
Donald Driver b Mar 1915 Newcastle
Sybella Driver b Sep 1910 Hebburn, South Shields
Matthew Driver b abt 1913 Newcastle
Lilian Driver b 14 Sep 1911 Newcastle
Their Mother is Lilian Young
Their father is either Matthew Driver
or Matthew Turnbull Driver
1911 census RG14 3053 160
3 Whitfield Road, Delavel Benwell, Newcastle
Matthew Driver, married, age 26, Iron Turner, b Renfrew, Scotland
Lilian Driver, married, age 25, b Durham, Hebburn
Sybella Driver, daughter, age 8 mths, b Durham, Hebburn
The family thinks the parents of Matthew Turnbull Driver are
John Driver 1832 North Shields
Isabella Turnbull 1838 North Shields
married abt 1863 Tynemouth
Many thanks
Esdel
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There is a marriage. . .
Mathew Turnbull Driver
1Q 1897 Tynemouth Northumberland 10b 301
Two possible wives - Sarah Jane Clark or Rachel Wardrope Wears
Your Matthew is too young for this marriage so this is his one
Matthew Driver / Lilian Young
1Q 1910 South Shields Durham, Tyne and Wear 10a 1222
Lauina
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The marriage in 1910 on freebmd would appear to be them so a copy of that marriage cert will give his fathers name
The 1891 for Scotland only has a Matthew Driver b Glasgow Lanarkshire 1884 and a basic search of SP shows no Matthew Driver b Renfrewshire 1884-1885
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1901 Census - Glasgow Govan ED 69 Page 8 Line 4 Roll CSSCT1901_311
Hugh Driver 41
Sybella Driver 41
Hugh Driver 19
Matthew Driver 17
Archibald Driver 15
Jessie Driver 12
Sybella Driver 10
Charles Driver 5
This is a possibility - maybe he named his daughter after his mother - it's an unusual name after all?
This Matthew was an apprentice iron turner.
Laurina
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Hugh Driver married Sybilla Dickson in 4Q 1881 in Liverpool (1837-1934) Lancashire 8b 163
Sybilla was born in Liverpool, Hugh was a marine engineer in 1901 census
Laurina
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I'd send for the marriage cerificate and see what it says. It's interesting that Matthew's occupation fits with the family I've found in 1901. The daughter/mother both have the same unusual name - Sybilla.
What do you think esdel?
Laurina
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1891 Census Glasgow St Enoch ED: 9 Page 2 Line 24 CSSCT1891_267
Hugh Driver 33 - Marine Engineer
Isabella Driver 33 - has this been transcribed incorrectly? - could it be Sybilla
Hugh Driver 8
Matthew Driver 7
Archibald W Driver 5
Jessie S Driver 2
All born Glasgow, Lanarkshire except wife who is born England
Does anyone have access to Scotland 1891 Census to check the wife's name please?
Laurina
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Donald Driver b.1894 is in the Eastpark Home for Infirm Children in Glasgow aged 7 in 1901. I believe he is Matthew's brother.
Laurina
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I had a few credits:
Matthew Driver born 26 May 1884, 7:40 pm, 6 Whitefield Road, Govan. Son of Hugh Driver, marine engineer, and Sybilla Driver, m.s. Dickson. Married 24 Nov 1881, Liverpool England. Mother registered the birth
Janis
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This could be Hugh Driver in the 1871 census in Glasgow Reformatory Institution and Boy's House of Refuge
Hugh Driver
Age: 12
Birth abt 1859 - Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Relationship: Youthful Offender
Gender: Male
Where born: Registration Number: 644/2
Registration district: High Church Civil Parish: Glasgow Springburn County: Lanarkshire
Occupation: Scholar
Hugh's birth 06 MAY 1858 Anderston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland - Father: Hugh Driver / Mother: Margaret Wallace
Hugh Driver's parent's marriage
Hugh Driver to Margaret Wallace - 19.6.1857 Blythswood, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Laurina
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What do you think esdel?
Laurina
Well I actually was off-line relaxing in a hot bath - so wasn't thinking!
On my return I am delighted - you are all doing a splendid job helping me, finding stuff I would never have found on my own.
Now I can go to bed and lk fwd to a days fun sorting out all you have discovered
esdel
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I am having trouble finding the parents and grandparents of these children:-
Donald Driver b Mar 1915 Newcastle
Sybella Driver b Sep 1910 Hebburn, South Shields
Matthew Driver b abt 1913 Newcastle
Lilian Driver b 14 Sep 1911 Newcastle
Their Mother is Lilian Young
Their father is either Matthew Driver
or Matthew Turnbull Driver
1911 census RG14 3053 160
3 Whitfield Road, Delavel Benwell, Newcastle
Matthew Driver, married, age 26, Iron Turner, b Renfrew, Scotland
Lilian Driver, married, age 25, b Durham, Hebburn
Sybella Driver, daughter, age 8 mths, b Durham, Hebburn
The family thinks the parents of Matthew Turnbull Driver are
John Driver 1832 North Shields
Isabella Turnbull 1838 North Shields
married abt 1863 Tynemouth
Many thanks
Esdel
Thank you everybody!
The basic confusion that you have revealed for me is
Matthew Driver versus Matthew Turnbull Driver
As these are two people but the "Turnbull" often uses no middle name (especially in censuses) it gets very difficult
Thanks to Matthew Turnbull Driver I have a extra tree which may or may not connect to mine.
He is the son b May 1871 at Tynemouth of John Driver and Isabella Turnbull who M13567 says married Nov 1863 at Tynemouth
Isabella's father is John Turnbull
Her husband John Driver's father is a John Driver who married a Margaret
She was born 1799 North Shields.
He (1861 census) is a Merchant Seaman living at Tynemouth with a lodger Jane Driver age 66.
He was born in Orkney in 1795
Unfortunately, due to the confusion of the Matthew Turnbull Driver oft not using his middle name, my notes are a mess!
All your ideas and suggestions welcome!
Many thanks
esdel
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The basic confusion that you have revealed for me is
Matthew Driver versus Matthew Turnbull Driver
All your ideas and suggestions welcome!
Many thanks
esdel
You can solve this problem simply for yourself by buying the marriage certificate for Lilian Young and Matthew Driver. It will give you both father's names and occupations.
As far as I can see Matthew Turnbull Driver is not possible - you say he was born in 1871 therefore he would be 40 in 1911. You Matthew is only 26!
If you look at his occupation and the family names in the replies here you will see that Matthew Driver is an apprentice iron turner in 1901 aged 17 - yours is an iron turner in 1911 aged 26. Your Matthew names his daughter Sybella and one of his sons Donald - the Matthew I've given you has a mother called Sybella and a brother called Donald.
Whilst I appreciate it's not conclusive the only way to prove or disprove it is to get the marriage certificate. It will cost you £9.25 - there is no other way of viewing it.
Good Luck
Laurina
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I'd send for the marriage cerificate and see what it says. It's interesting that Matthew's occupation fits with the family I've found in 1901. The daughter/mother both have the same unusual name - Sybilla.
What do you think esdel?
Laurina
It is conclusive - well done Laurina!
No matter how many "official books" you find your ancestor's name written in, there is no PROOF it is not just another bloke or gal rejoicing in the same name!
Truth is but cruel self-delusion - a non-player who never strut nor fret his hour upon the stage mode visible!
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Matthew Driver / Lilian Young
1Q 1910 South Shields Durham, Tyne and Wear 10a 1222
Lauina
Is there any way to find the parents of Lilian Young?
Many thanks
esdel
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Buy the marriage certificate - it will tell you her father's name and occupation. Otherwise it's just guess work.
Laurina
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This looks like the same family I have been researching. Matthew and Lilian's children would be my father's cousins. Lilian's mother was Mary Young, but Lilian was raised her grandparents, James Young and Alice Harper and later by James Coldwell and his wife Ellen Young, Lilian's aunt. I have photos of Matthew and his four children, Sybella, Lilian, Matthew and Donald which I can post if it will confirm ID.
Clachar
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Great, please send the photos. Lilian Driver was my wife's Mother.
As nearly all the other people are new to me please send any info you may have on their births, marriages and deaths, and the years through which Lillian Young was adopted by her Grannie and then her Aunt
Many thanks
Esdel
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Hi Esdel,
My grandfather was Matthew's brother and was married to one of Ellen Young and James Coldwell's daughters.
I have attached a photo of Matthew Driver, his daughter Lilian and a third with his other children, Donald Matthew and Sybella. Let me know if this is a positive ID
Clachar
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Donald Matthew and Sybella Driver
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Well, Clachar, your Lilian Driver looks exactly like my Mother-in-Law might have looked 25 years before I met her.
She was born Newcastle, moved age 7 to Southampton then Erith
Can you confirm her date of birth, marriage or death?
Sybella I knew well when she was 90 - she climbed a tree in her garden, fell out, broke her collar-bone and NEVER went to the Dr.
So your Grandfather is Donald Driver?
born March 1915 at Newcastle on Tyne
son of Matthew Driver and Lillian Young
Now HIS father was also a Matthew Driver whose brothers were:-
Hugh
Archibald
Donald
Charles
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Hi Esdel,
That's great, my aunt Margaret will be thrilled that we've traced her uncle Matt's family at last. Now, about Lilian Young. Lilian was born 1886 (Jan15th?) and bapitized at St John's East End Sunderland on Feb 18th. The baptism record gives her mother as Mary Young, 87 Tees Street but the father's name is not given. The 1891 census records her with her grandmother Alice Young (ms Harper) at 22 Redhead Terrace, Jarrow. In 1901 Lilian is recorded with the Coldwells, James and Ellen (ms Young) She is listed as a sister in law but is in fact a niece. Also listed are daughters, Alice Coldwell and Elizabeth Coldwell.
My Grandfather, Charles Dickson Driver married Alice. His bother Donald Hutchison Driver married Elizabeth and Matthew married Lilian!
They were married 26/2/1910 at St Andrew's Church Hebburn. Matthew's father is given as Hugh Driver (my gt grandfather) and Lilian's is given as James Young (joiner). This is her grandfather! My understanding is that Lilian died at Easter time in 1937. I have lots more info and questions!!
Regards, Clachar
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EXCELLENT! Well done Clachar. You have solved a great mystery for me!
But we must be careful. There is so much false data being spread around - and sites making money by selling us junk! If 101 people agree it means they all copied the same false info!
So what I am going to do is list EVERYTHING I Knew BEFORE you came on the scene to rescue me!
Please check ALL this against what you know BEFORE I run the risk of just "verifying" back to you facts that came from YOU!
It is the ONLY way we can be sure we have the truth.
So here goes
I know for a fact that Lilian Driver died on 26 Aug 1985. I was there.
I have her descendants if you want them.
Lilian told me she was born 14 Sept 1911 at Scotswood Road, Newcastle on Tyne and her christening was 8 Nov 1911 at Benwell District (entry 280 book 13)
She married Esdell Alfred Blanchard on 26 Aug 1936 and they lived at Caterham (then in Godstone District)
My records say (whatever yours do! and without reference to them):-
Lilian's parents were Matthew Driver (born 26 May 1884 at 6 Witfield Road, Govan, Glasgow) and Lilian Young b about May 1875 at Hartlepool or Berwick
Matthew and Lilian married on 26 Feb 1910 at St Andrews Hebburn.
Their children:-
Donald Driver b Mar 1915 Newcastle on Tyne
Sybella b Sep 1910 at Hebburn South Shields - who married Len Manning
Matthew b abt 1913 at Newcastle on Tyne - some say Feb 1913 others Sept 1913
Lilian my Mother-in-Law
It is really the exactness of the dates that prove we are talking of the same PEOPLE - not just others who had that same name!
As for ancestors, I have only these dates:-
Hugh Driver b 6 May 1858 Anderston Glasgow (whose father was also Hugh)
The birth dates I have for Hugh and Stellas's 7 children are
Hugh 1881, Matthew 1884, Archibald 1885, Jesse S 1888, Sybella 1890,
Donald 1894, Charles 1895
Let me know anything else that interests you and it will be a pleasure to help if I can!
Who was the Coldwell dau who married Donald and who are their descendants and where do you fit in (PM me if you like)
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I just found this thread as I am currently researching another branch of the same family. If Esdel or Clacher are still active on the forum, please reply. ;D