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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: p_clough on Monday 01 November 10 01:05 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
My Father in law recently helped my apply for his fathers service records, and I'm wondering if anyone can help me fill in the blanks. Essentially, we were well aware of his time with the RHA, and the history of his Battery through Dunkirk and North Africa has been easy to read up on, both in books and on the internet. However, it transpires that the first 8 years of his service was elsewhere, and I'm struggling to find out anything about one unit in particular:
1932: Joined 4 Light Battery 21 Mountain Brigade
1937: Unit became 22 Mountain Battery
I'm really struggling to find anything out about these units, either googling or searching the National Archives catalogs. I did find this web page http://orbat.com/site/cimh/india/army1939.html which suggested that the 22nd Mountain Battery were a unit of the Indian Army, but looking at the group photo I posted here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,451224.0.html (4th Photo) it doesn't look like the Indian Army, i.e. plenty of British NCO's etc. However, the photo (which I always assumed was North Africa) could be them.
Could anybody know, or could point me, at any info about this unit, be it books, websites or archives? Or would anyone know if they were involved in any of the conflicts along the NW frontier that seem to puntuate the 30's? Could the attached photo be from one of those forays?
Thanks in advance,
Paul.
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If he was involved in the fighting on the NW Frontier his papers should record him receiving the Indian General Service Medal - http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/india_general_service_1908.htm or http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/india_general_service_1936.htm - or you may have to go to Kew to check the medal rolls.
'Indian Army' means the British army in India. All units had British officers; some had all British NCOs with either British or native rank and file; some had mixed NCOs with all native rank and file.
If you get no joy here you could try www.firepower.org.uk - but they do not have a reputation for doing free research.
Ken
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http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1936/nov/30/north-west-frontier-military-operations
This may be of interest.
1936 Military Ops in the NW Frontier.
Ady
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'Indian Army' means the British army in India.
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Surely this isn't true? The Indian Army was the army of the state of India and was not to be confused with units of the British Army that happened to be in India. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_army which uses the term "British Indian Army" to separate the pre- and post-independence India armies.
What's stated about the officers is true - not sure about NCOs and other ranks.
The Mesopotamian campaign of WW1 was basically an Indian Army operation but it was one where a number of British Army units were drafted in to fight under the command of the Indian Army - after the Mutiny, the British always kept the Indian Army light on artillery "just in case", so I think a large percentage of the British Army units drafted to Mespot were artillery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22nd_Derajat_Mountain_Battery_%28Frontier_Force%29 refers to the 22nd Derajat Mountain Battery of the Indian Army but this seems to have a continuous existence suggesting "4 Light Battery" didn't become 22nd MB because that already existed. But I can't find any reference to "21 Mountain Brigade" either so I might be quite wrong.
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If he was involved in the fighting on the NW Frontier his papers should record him receiving the Indian General Service Medal - http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/india_general_service_1908.htm or http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/india_general_service_1936.htm - or you may have to go to Kew to check the medal rolls.
Cheers Ken.
His service records list his campaign and other medals, and they're all from WW2, so it appears not, though it strikes me as suprising that someone could spent 7 years in what is now Pakistan, 6 in a mountain formation, during the time of the Mohmand action and the Fakir causing mither in Waziristan, and not be involved. But there it is in black and white . . .
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Hi Paul
Some mountain batteries were in the east and therefore not involved in the fighting. Ideally you should try and find an Army List from the period.
Ken
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The Indian Army was the army of the state of India and was not to be confused with units of the British Army that happened to be in India.
That is my understanding, in fact I've not long finished reading the autobiography of a man who was a British officer in the Indian army at the time of partition (the oddly titled "Has anyone here been raped and speaks english?" or words to that effect) and the impression you get is of British officers very thinly spread - although that's a good decade of "Indianization" further on.
I'm still none the wiser as to whether the unit in question was British Indian Army, or British army though, and the link supplied suggests the latter. Ah well, I need to read some books!
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Hi Paul
Some mountain batteries were in the east and therefore not involved in the fighting. Ideally you should try and find an Army List from the period.
Ken
Cheers Ken, I'll do that. The reason I thought they might be in the West was the fact that the unit sent a tug of war team to Rawlapindi 3 years running, which doesn't necessarily mean the Battery was based there.
Right, back to work before the boss spots me ;-)