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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: jayg49 on Saturday 30 October 10 23:25 BST (UK)
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Researching Alfred George May born in Essex in 1864. Got him and wife hannah on 1911 census and 1901 bur cannot find details of marriage or his birth.
any help with this brick wall
ta june
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Any idea where in Essex?
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1871 census, first one after Alfred's birth, has only one likely candidate, aged 6, with parents Charles & Mary Ann, living in Loughton.
RG10; Piece: 1639; Folio: 106; Page: 22
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On 1911 census, how long does it say Alfred & Hannah have been married?
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Hi June and welcome
Are you sure he's enumerated as married in 1911? The free 1911 index (lookups aren't allowed) doesn't suggest there's a Hannah MAY likely to be in the same household.
Bear in mind that it wasn't that uncommon for couples to live together for many years, supposedly as man and wife, and have children together without marrying. Sometimes this was because one or other of them was already married to somebody else.
Anna :)
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wow love the quick response, on one census it says harlow, but a likely candidate on the 1891 census says islington.
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wow love the quick response, on one census it says harlow, but a likely candidate on the 1891 census says islington.
The 1891 candidate is definitely the right Alfred (RG12/168/109/43) as shown by the fact that the couple are enumerated at 5 Grosvenor St, Islington - the same address Alfred and Hannah gave when their son Alfred George, born 18 Jan 1892, was baptised at St Peter Islington on 11 Feb 1892.
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I wonder whether the birthplaces of Alfred and Hannah in the 1901 census (Harlow and King's Cross respectively) were the wrong way round. Harlow/Matching Green seems to have been Hannah's birthplace according to other censuses.
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Hannah has put her surname as aurell on the 1911 census and while alfred describes himself as single, she says she has been married for 20 years. it did cross my mind that they might not have married.
;D
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I hadn't thought that the birthplaces might have got swapped elsewhere, it's a nuisance cos it makes searching so difficult
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i have a subscription to find my past and have looked up on the 1911 census, alfred says he's single and hannah says she is a mistress, seems a bit racy after being together for 20 years. Thanks for the suggestion about the 1871 census, i'll have a look at that
thanks everyone
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June, you've mentioned to me in a PM that Hannah used the name AURELL in 1911, and that elsewhere (?) she is known as LAMBERT.
Could the 1911 surname in fact be ANSELL?
The 1881 census shows a Hannah LAMBERT, 19 b Matching Essex, as a cousin in the household of John HALL in St George the Martyr, London: RG11/339/31/56.
(1871 shows her as a daughter of a John and Susan LAMBERT, living in Matching: RG10/1641/154/1).
We then see a possible marriage:
Marriage, Mar qtr 1884
John Edward ANSELL
Hannah LAMBERT
on same page, Pancras 1b 32.
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genius, i think you've got it. It does look like ansell and the birth and marriage adds up.
when i think of the weeks i've been looking at this, lol
this has reignited my enthusiasm for research
ta june
:)
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Marriage, St Jude, Gray's Inn Road
27 February 1884
John Edward ANSELL Full age Bachelor Horsekeeper of 308 Gray's Inn Rd, father Thomas ANSELL, stableman
Hannah LAMBERT Full age Spinster of 308 Gray's Inn Rd, father John LAMBERT, labourer
After banns
Minister: S. VERCOE
Bride and groom both signed (in rather awkward handwriting!)
Witnesses: Thomas ANSELL, Amelia ANSELL (both signed)
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brilliant, thats a great help
june
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Passenger lists suggest that John Edward ANSELL (who was born in the St Pancras/Islington area on 7 September 1860 and baptised at St Pancras on 30 September 1860, son of Thomas - a stableman - and Mary Ann) may have decamped to South Africa and had another family there.
He certainly seems to disappear from the English records after his marriage to Hannah.
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There seem to be two possible alfred george may in the 1871 census one living in Loughton and one in st pancras.
given that the essex connection seems to fit hannah better i wonder if the st pancras alfred is the right one
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The only evidence linking Alfred with Essex was the 1901 census in which his birthplace was given as Harlow and Hannah's as King's Cross. Given that it is now certain that Hannah was born in the Harlow area I believe those are likely to have been the wrong way round.
Hannah, though originally from Essex, was in London by 1881 and married in the St Pancras area in 1884. It is I think very likely that she met Alfred in London. I don't think there's any good reason to think Alfred was originally from Essex.
In any event the Loughton child who was enumerated as Alfred MAY aged 6 in 1871 was registered as Alfred Stephen MAY (Sep qtr 1865 Epping 4a 77) and was in London as Alfred S MAY with his widowed mother Mary Ann in 1891: RG12/323/109/49. He therefore cannot be your Alfred.
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thanks anna
you're a star.
going bellringing now.
Thanks again
june
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There seem to be two possible alfred george may in the 1871 census one living in Loughton and one in st pancras.
What are the details of the child you can see in St Pancras in 1871? Do you mean the 7 yr old son of Fredrick and Elizabeth, born St Pancras but living in St Luke?
I'd be wary of leaping to any conclusions without further checking, as there's an Alfred MAY born St Pancras abt 1865 who ends up married to a Harriet and living in Cardiff by 1891.
A tricky one! Happy bellringing. :)
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indeed that doesn't seem to be our alfred
oh well i'll keep looking