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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: blodwen on Monday 25 October 10 19:09 BST (UK)

Title: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: blodwen on Monday 25 October 10 19:09 BST (UK)
Hallo,

Can anybody decipher the name of the town in C.Cork, please


Thankyou

Viv
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: wendoree on Tuesday 26 October 10 08:15 BST (UK)
Hi Blodwen,
                  It looks like  ??  ?inlamp.Not much help I know.
Wendoree
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: macintosh on Tuesday 26 October 10 08:43 BST (UK)
Viv,

Are you sure it is the name of a town in Co. Cork ? I have searched "Towns in  County Cork"
on google and nothing like your name emerges, Could it be a surname because the first two letters look like "Mr"

James
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: mare on Tuesday 26 October 10 10:39 BST (UK)
... I did the same a few hours back James, couldn't find anything in that huge list resembling the layout of letters and wondered the same as you ... tried it as Mount and there isn't really anything, ignoring that I wasn't sure if next capital letter was I or T ... nothing under Inch****** that fitted and couldn't make it work with a T either.   

 :) mare

 
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: california dreamin on Tuesday 26 October 10 10:47 BST (UK)
Hi

Although I can't decipher all of it - I read it as

Nr.  ?imlam? @ Cork Ireland

Nr = near
@ = at

The second question mark really looks like a "p" so possibly

Near ?imlamp at Cork, Ireland
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: Seoras on Tuesday 26 October 10 12:45 BST (UK)
Hi Viv,like James and Mare I google earthed all over Cork for ages looking for names of towns,villages and mountains and couldn't come up with anything.Have you posted it on the notice board for Cork,someone there may know.

George.
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: Dalum on Tuesday 26 October 10 13:11 BST (UK)
I think there is a 'dash' between the place name and 'C.Cork' like the one between Cork and Ireland. So I think the name may end in 'y'.  ___larry?

edit
or __lany

Hugh
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: josey on Tuesday 26 October 10 13:31 BST (UK)
I agree with a possible ..larry. The capital letter after the possible 'Nr' could be T or even F.

Are there any more small sections of the same page with any capitals you can upload to help? Or the census reference so that we can see the whole page?

Josey
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: josey on Tuesday 26 October 10 13:44 BST (UK)
Another thought is that the place name is not used any more.

Certainly in Scotland there are place names on old maps which you cannot find on modern ones - the name has gone out of use. This may be the case with this Cork placename.
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 26 October 10 13:50 BST (UK)
The place in Cork you are looking for is probably a townland not a town. Townland names and boundaries are unlikely to have changed over the years although the spelling can vary. The best website for finding a townland or parish in Ireland is www.thecore.com/seanruad - it's not working at the moment but just keep checking and be sure to change default setting from 'exact match' to search for part of a word.
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: Seoras on Tuesday 26 October 10 13:57 BST (UK)
I agree with Josey on the disappearing place names,especially with mass emigration and land clearances.I was looking for a place in Scotland and it is only preserved in the name of a farm.

George.
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 26 October 10 14:00 BST (UK)
Things are different in Ireland and we've kept townland names although the postal service has brought in road names and postcodes in some places.
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: Dalum on Tuesday 26 October 10 14:04 BST (UK)
I am no kind of expert on Irish resources but I like this site I just found by googling, as a source of placenames:

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/civilparish/index.cfm?fuseaction=GetMap&CityCounty=Cork

I have not yet found an index page to get to the different county pages, but you can change the county name at the end of the URL.

Hugh



Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: Seoras on Tuesday 26 October 10 14:28 BST (UK)
Viv there is a site getting together an archive of Cork and Kerry place names.On reading their page they say that many farmers even gave each field a place name and also that some place names may no longer be used by the community.It's a long shot but they may be able to help.This is their link for contact.You could possibly enquire and send your image as an attachment.mailto:logainmneacha[at]gmail.com

George.
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 26 October 10 14:31 BST (UK)
Yes, farmers often gave names to fields but would not have given such a name in a census form, civil certificate, etc. The townlands are all named in the 1901 and 1911 census (which is online, free) but in order to browse by place you need to search through each D.E.D. in Co. Cork.
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: Seoras on Tuesday 26 October 10 14:37 BST (UK)
Aghadowey,I have some Irish connections I have yet to research.McBride and possibly Welsh(surname not the nation) too.I know for certain at least one was Catholic.Any ideas on what areas I should be looking at or sites I may find useful.We would be talking pre 1870's.

George.
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 26 October 10 14:40 BST (UK)
Aghadowey,I have some Irish connections I have yet to research.McBride and possibly Welsh(surname not the nation) too.I know for certain at least one was Catholic.Any ideas on what areas I should be looking at or sites I may find useful.We would be talking pre 1870's.

George.

To search for church records, etc. you need to know where the family lived (parish if not actual townland)- see Introduction to Irish Records
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: Seoras on Tuesday 26 October 10 14:53 BST (UK)
Thanks for that.
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: blodwen on Tuesday 26 October 10 17:43 BST (UK)
Whuuh!  Thanks first of all for everyone's  input.

Just back online after waiting for the maintenance engineer to repair my fridge!!
It has been off since Friday - now I know what it is like to live without a fridge - thank goodness it has been cold here.

Well, I did have a possibility of Kilmordey - that has been searched for before - but this time I had the 1891 Census for comparison, I thought  :(

Seoras:  just re-read your post - sounds like a good idea - will try that, thanks.

Will also try the other possibilities.

Thank you all once again for you help - will see what I can come up with.

Viv
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: blodwen on Tuesday 26 October 10 17:50 BST (UK)
Just had a look at the website  that Dalum posted:

Could be Kilmoney, Cork .......

An Englishman "translating" an Irish town   ???

Will look into that further.

Viv
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: dobfarm on Tuesday 26 October 10 22:49 BST (UK)
Is it Limleen 
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 26 October 10 22:53 BST (UK)
Is it Limleen 

Doesn't look like it.
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: dobfarm on Tuesday 26 October 10 23:29 BST (UK)
How about Lisheen or Tinley Mallow Cork
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: dobfarm on Wednesday 27 October 10 08:34 BST (UK)
Hallo,

Can anybody decipher the name of the town in C.Cork, please


Thankyou

Viv

Hi Viv,

Have you tried other avenues to find this place in Ireland? like other census years, events BMD in Ireland of a birth or UK GRO marriage of the person. Cork Library maybe worth phoning for general advice or post more details of person involved on here! some obscure bit of info that seem nothing too you! may mean something to someone else to identify the location in Ireland.

Well thats my 6 pen-ath.!  :)
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: Dalum on Wednesday 27 October 10 10:34 BST (UK)
Viv,

Can I repeat something somebody asked earlier - if this is a census form can you give the census reference? It could be useful to see more of the handwriting.

Hugh
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 27 October 10 10:39 BST (UK)
Having another look this morning, I think it might be -----larny.

Just a thought!
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: mare on Wednesday 27 October 10 10:50 BST (UK)
... had the same thought while I was looking yesterday and didn't spot any in the long list I used ... as attached here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_townlands_of_County_Cork
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: blodwen on Wednesday 27 October 10 11:29 BST (UK)
Hi Folks,

Census 1891 - RG 12, 4348, 112, 13

John Donovan, b. 1830 (living on own means)  ? Cork, Ireland

Thanks

Viv
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 27 October 10 11:59 BST (UK)
A possibility!

1881 Census, Trevethin within Pontypool (RG11, 5251, 34, 32)

John Donovan, Head, Married, 50, Road Labour, b Kilmordey Ireland
Mary Donovan, WIfe, 48, b Kilmordey
Elizabeth Donovan, Daughter, 9, Pontypool
Jeremiah Donovan, Son, 21, Clerk on Railway, Pontypool
Ellen Donovan, Mother, Widow, 78, Kilmordey
William Donovan, Son, 14, Scholar, Pontypool
Edward Donovan, Son, 4, Pontypool
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 27 October 10 12:01 BST (UK)
I had a look at the 1891 census page - I think the first letter is a 'T'.
Compare to the other T's on the page, e.g. the first name on the page Thomas

Other than the i (as 2nd or 3rd letter), I am not certain about the rest - other than the ascender character, presumably an l, and the descender character - presumably a g, p or y

I dont know for certain that it fits, but in a Co. Cork context the overall shape of the word looks a bit like 'Timoleague' to me.


Shane
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: JustLooking on Wednesday 27 October 10 12:21 BST (UK)
Hi  :)

I thought it might be Timoleague yesterday but,  having looked at the entry on the 1881 census (RG11 5251  34 32 Kilmordey), I'm wondering if it might not be Kilnamartyra. Genuki has it as Kilnamartry - http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/irl/COR/index.html

It doesn't look like it on the 1891 snip though so  :-\

JL
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: blodwen on Wednesday 27 October 10 12:59 BST (UK)
I would like to thank everyone who is helping me find the birthplace of this relative.

The place name Kilmordey was known, but has not been found anywhere, unfortunately.

Irish ancestors are difficult (sometimes)  :)

Viv
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 27 October 10 14:00 BST (UK)
here's a slightly clearer version, and it looks like 'Timlamy' to me. I cant figure out anything meaningful in the mark at the beginning of the line.

No such townland in Co. Cork - the only place I see beginning with Tim is Timoleague, and nothing ending in lamy

It has to be a mis-heard, misread or phonetic spelling.

I also had a look at the 1881 census - a very clear Kilmordey (twice) - but again  no sign of this as a townland - closest match might be Kilmoney...

Lots of places in Cork (and Ireland) beginning with Kill - it's the Irish for Church.


Shane

Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: dobfarm on Wednesday 27 October 10 21:40 BST (UK)
Hi  :)

I thought it might be Timoleague yesterday but,  having looked at the entry on the 1881 census (RG11 5251  34 32 Kilmordey), I'm wondering if it might not be Kilnamartyra. Genuki has it as Kilnamartry - http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/irl/COR/index.html

It doesn't look like it on the 1891 snip though so  :-\

JL

this seems most likely place JL found

http://www.timoleague.ie/
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 27 October 10 21:42 BST (UK)
Wonder it the first 'squiggle' is something like Nr for near?
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: dobfarm on Wednesday 27 October 10 21:56 BST (UK)
This maybe be a possible

Timoleague = in Irish: Tigh Molaige - Timolaige= House of Molaga
There is Kilmaloda   & Kilavarrig near  Timoleague

see link
http://www.timoleague.ie/

Google 'Timolaige' brought this up
.................
conventus de Timolaige, conventus de Inisiarcane, conventus de Biantry

http://www.jstor.org/pss/25487356

Sint-Truiden: Irish Francisican Documents (Continued)by B Jennings - 1962
conventus de Timolaige, conventus de Inisiarcane, conventus


Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: justmej on Wednesday 27 October 10 22:16 BST (UK)
Have not read back through, so not sure if anyone has already suggested this, but my first thoughts were that the name ends with ...barry.

justmej
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: Dalum on Wednesday 27 October 10 23:51 BST (UK)
Wonder it the first 'squiggle' is something like Nr for near?

There is a similar mark, but without the interference, on page 8 of the e.d. (9 lines from the bottom, added in front of 'Usk')

I think that it is 'Nr'

Hugh
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: mare on Thursday 28 October 10 00:05 BST (UK)
... I was tending to agree with your post #6 yesterday Dalum re a dash after the downward stroke ... I had of course Timoleague down as a possibility as well seeing as there were so few on the list beginning with Tim ...and there could be a very squashed O, still have some difficulty seeing eague though!

and I would go along with Nr  :)
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: dobfarm on Thursday 28 October 10 00:44 BST (UK)
bit of trivia

http://genforum.genealogy.com/donovan/page11.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/townlands/index.cfm?fuseaction=TownlandsInCivil&civilparishid=213&civilparish=Timoleague&citycounty=Cork

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/civilparish/index.cfm?fuseaction=GetMap&CityCounty=Cork

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/munster/cork2.htm

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/munster/index_co.htm

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/irl/COR/index.html

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcor/

http://www.genealogylinks.net/uk/ireland/cork/cork-parish-registers.htm

http://www.cmcrp.net/static/listbapt.php?t=Cork

http://www.cmcrp.net/static/listmarr.php?t=Cork

http://www.cmcrp.net/static/listdeath.php?t=Cork
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: Dalum on Thursday 28 October 10 01:07 BST (UK)
This is on the tenuous side  :) ....

The suggestion has been made that the 'Kilmordey' in an earlier census might be Kilmoney.

Looking at the page for Kilmoney on the IrishTimes site and particularly the 'adjoining parish' list I see 'Liscleary'.

The repost of the 1891 snippet above allows me to see for the first time (with the eye of faith) that the first letter of that name could be a 'K'.

Could the name be a mishearing of Liscleary as 'Kiscleary' or 'Kisclarry'?

Googling Liscleary I found this site with a tithe 'applotment' for the parish in 1835. This includes a man called Jeremiah Donovan.
http://myhome.ispdr.net.au/~mgrogan/cork/liscleary_1835.htm

How common might the name Jeremiah Donovan be? The family that moved to Wales had a son Jeremiah listed in the 1871 census.

Hugh
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: dobfarm on Thursday 28 October 10 01:15 BST (UK)
We'll all end up at Timbuctoo ;D before we finish this thread-I'm off to bed before I start doing an Irish Jig. :D

Good night all. :)

Dobby

Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: blodwen on Thursday 28 October 10 14:32 BST (UK)
I would again  like to thank everyone for helping me try to find the name of the place.  I really do appreciate it. :)

I will try the various places mentioned and look at the websites that Dobfarm has posted.

Thanks once again.

Viv

Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: sandra B. on Thursday 28 October 10 15:01 BST (UK)
Hi there,

I think the first letter is Hr, as in Higher T.......
SAndra
Title: Re: Help in deciphering the place name, please
Post by: twill15 on Thursday 28 October 10 16:37 BST (UK)
Hi - Think the first two letters may be Gr ( Great or Greater). Next definitely  starts with T - I make it Ti r n lamp, p in copperplate is usually open with a flick on the tail. agree it was probably a phonetic rendering of a local accent.
 hope you find it. T