RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: eloise_matt on Sunday 24 October 10 14:01 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
Hoping to get to the bottom of a family secret.
Did Michael Eric MURPHY marry Lilian Liena CARNES in April 1943 in Victoria? May have also been under the name of David MURPHY.
At the time he was serving as a solider in WWII but never saw active service as he went AWOL often, for long periods of time. His family didn't know about this first marriage until they saw it printed on his death certificate. And have wondered since if it's possible that they had any children together???
Any help would be greatly appreciated :D
Eloise
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Marriages index is locked at 1942 & there is no record of them marrying before then.
Births are locked at 1920 & there are no deaths of children up until 1985 when the death indexes are locked also.
Who was the informant on his death certificate they obviously knew of his first marriage.
Does it give a reference if he divorced his first wife or if she died?
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Bugger, I'll have to sit on my hands and wait till marriages after 1942 are released!
The family is guessing that Michael didn't divorce Lilian but became estranged from her as he started a family with another woman in the 1950s. The children from this family knew nothing about the first wife but realised later that it possibly explained why their parents didn't marry until 1998. Maybe the first wife Lilian had died recently before their marriage.
The informant on the death certificate is the funeral director. So someone must have told him??? Also there is no mention of a divorce.
Thanks for the reply,
Eloise
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Hi
Are you able to say where in Victoria you think any of the parties may have been living.?
I am not able to see the ww2 service history summary for MICHAEL ERIC MURPHY
Sometimes aburial may be found which can help with information.
Sue
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Hi Sue,
I think the reason he isn't in the WWII service summery is because he didn't 'serve'. He enlisted and then went AWOL, he was court martialed twice because of his absence. During one of the periods he went AWOL included April of 1943.
I have an electoral return for 1949 which lists Lilian Liena MURPHY of A1 Mine Settlement, Mansfield, Victoria. She is residing with a David MURPHY of no occupation. Michael's father is called David but he is found in Beechworth, so I thought maybe he took on his father's name for this electrol roll???? Otherwise it appears that Michael never enrolled to vote and I can't find another entry of Lilian Liena.
Thanks for your help :)
Eloise
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this could possibly be who you are looking for:
MURPHY Eric
Service Number - VX78598
Date of birth - 14 Sep 1918
Place of birth - BEECHWORTH VIC
Place of enlistment - CAULFIELD VIC
Next of Kin - MURPHY ELLEN
from www.naa.gov.au
x-matching the VX78598 number brings up 3 entries for Eric, the enlistment file + 2 courtmartial files, 11th November 1942 and 6th September 1943
Leanne
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Yes that's him. I have his service records on file :) I'm really just trying to establish if he did indeed marry Lilian Liena Carnes, if they had any children together and what happened to Lilian after they separated.
thanks,
Eloise
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I read it that you didn't have that information.
Leanne
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Hi Eloise,
If you are hoping for some information from rchat helpers, it is always best to tell what you already know right at the outset.
Some details may not seem relevant to the specific request you are making, but everything adds to the overall picture in the end :D
So, who were ERIC's parents?
When was LILLIAN last heard of?
What else do you know of her?
Sue
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Vic bdm's
Michael Eric MURPHY,born to David MURPHY and Mary Ellen LONDRIGAN, Beechworth 1915 #18569
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In1942 when he enlisted he was living at Richmond in suburban Melbourne.
His mother ELLEN shows as NOK
Why is his father not NOK if he is on the electoral roll of 1949 and the son MICHAEL ERIC is not married?
If the marriage took place in 1943 and the discharge of MICHAEL ERIC was 1946, why was his wife not NOK?
Sue
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Hi all,
Everything I know about Lilian Liena Carnes I've posted here - which isn't a lot. Michael Eric MURPHY also known as Eric Michael was born to David John Murphy and Mary Ellen LONDRIGAN/LANDREGAN.
I'm guessing Lilian isn't mentioned as NOK because Michael enlisted but then went AWOL. I think they had enough trouble trying to get hold of him let alone updating his details. In my experience mothers are often listed as NOK.
Michael Eric never enrolled to vote or wasn't allowed to vote for having a criminal conviction for going AWOL. I was mistaken before, Michael's father, David, is not at Beechworth in 1949. He is living at Beechworth for every other electoral year but this one. So maybe in 1949 at A1 Mine Settlement, Mansfield, Victoria living at the address was Lilian Liena Murphy, her father-in-law David Murphy and her husband Michael Eric Murphy BUT Michael isn't listed because he wasn't enrolled to vote.
In 1951 Michael Eric met Czech immigrant Marta Simkova and they had two sons; one in 1952 and a second son (my father-in-law) in 1953. Michael and Marta married secretly in 1998 in Western Australia.
No one had knowledge of Lilian until Michael's death in 2003 when they discovered on his death certificate that he had married before. The family didn't ask Marta about it because she was unwell. Marta died the following year.
I think that's pretty much it.
Thanks to those that have been having a snoop around records for me :)
kind regards,
Eloise