RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: CitizenSmith on Sunday 24 October 10 12:49 BST (UK)
-
Hi
I'd welcome some help with tracing the date and place of death of an Essex Traveller called Noah Whitney or Witney.
He was born in 1897 in Ongar registration district and baptised in Orpington, Kent, a year later, the son of Ben and Alice Witney. His mother's surname was Durrant. I've found the family in the 1901 census in Caxton, Cambridgeshire, but can't find any of them in 1911 so far.
In 1938 Noah married Alvina Gumble in Dunmow registration district. I've traced Alvina's death in 1972 where she's recorded as Elvy Whitney. Noah was still alive at the time.
Is anyone else researching Whitneys and Gumbles in Essex who can share any info on Alvina or Noah?
Thanks in advance.
Best wishes
Sharon
-
hi im a gumble, from essex im interisted in the woman alvina gumble,id like to see if theres any conection to my family, as its the same area my family are from thanks lila
-
Hi Lila
I haven't found out anything extra about Alvina since I first posted my message. Sorry.
Best wishes
Sharon
-
Noah Whitney lived with his wife and son Noah in Takeley. Brothers and sisters of Noah Whitney lived in Edmonton, London (Alice, Elvy, Ben, Tilly, Nellie, Harry). The Whitney family plot is at Edmonton Cemetery.
-
Hi
Welcome to Rootschat. And many thanks for that info on the Whitneys: a real breakthrough! I'll follow it up.
Best wishes
Sharon
-
Noah WHITNEY
b 03/08/1897
d q1 1975
Bishops Stortford v10 p0004
You will find entry's for your family in the recently released London, Electoral Registers, 1835-1965 in Edmonton
Nothing else found on your family in the census post 1901!
-
Many thanks for the birth and the electoral registers lead - very useful.
Best wishes
Sharon
-
Re: Noah Whitney Family
Parents:
Ben Whitney Sr died 1945 age 69 (Edmonton Cemetery)
Alice Whitney died 1970 age 94 (Edmonton Cemetery)
Their Children:
Noah Whitney died 1975 (Wife Elvy Whitney died 1972)
Elvy Cole nee Whitney died 1978 age 83 (Husband Fred Cole died 1964 age 65) - (Edmonton Cemetery)
Alice Payton nee Whitney died 1976 age 77 (Husband Edward Payton died 1987 age 89) - (Edmonton Cemetery)
Nellie Fenn nee Whitney (Husband Joe Fenn died 1991 age 83)
Tilda (Tilly) Whitney died 1981 age 74 (Edmonton Cemetery)
Ben Whitney died 1984 age 71 (Edmonton Cemetery)
Harry Whitney died 1984 age 62 (Edmonton Cemetery)
Their grandchildren:
Noah Whitney
Frederick Payton died 1980 age 49 (Edmonton Cemetery)
Matilda (Tilly) Payne died 1998 age 74 (Husband John Payne Sr.) (Edmonton Cemetery)
Lennie Whitney died 2011 (Edmonton Cemetery)
-
Can I ask why you looking for Noah Whitney
-
Yes - sure.
Several years ago I met someone from the Memorial Arts Charity: an organisation based in Suffolk that preserves the heritage of traditional hand-lettering on gravestones.
They had been given a hand-made and hand-painted wooden grave marker by the vicar at Hatfield Broad Oak in Essex that commemorated the life of an unknown woman. According to the inscription on it, it had been raised by someone called Noah-William in memory of this mother. There were no other clues on it as to who the grave marker belonged to but it featured a painting of a running horse.
The Memorial Arts Charity wanted to return the grave marker to the family. As I am a family historian with Romany heritage in East Anglia, I volunteered to try and find out who they might be. Through some detective work, I now think that the grave marker may have been created by Noah William Whitney for his mother Elvy/Alvina.
Sharon
-
hi, i am cathy daughter of frederick payton, noah whitney was his uncle, alice and ben whitney are my great grandparents. uncle noahs wife elvina was killed in a car accident (run down). they have a son noah who still lives in takely essex. if theres anything else i can help you with please let me know, cos i am still in contact with the whitneys.
-
WITNEY
EX Nevendon pbp8/8/1830 John s/o Elijah/Sarah, tinker, Hawthorn (Althorne) [WHITNEY sic]
EX Nevendon bp15/8/1836 Sarah Anne d/o Elijah/Sarah, tinman & brazier of Halthorn [WHITNEY sic]
EX Nevendon bp29/4/1841 Elijah s/o Elijah/Sarah, tinman of N. [WHITEY sic]
EX Pitsea bp25/8/1833 Eliza d/o Elijah/Sarah, tinker trav’g of Althorne
EX Pitsea bp25/8/1833 Ambrose s/o Elijah/Sarah, tinker trav’g of Althorne
KT.BRO Orpington All Saints bp26/6/1898 (b3/6/1897) Noah s/o Ben/Alice, trav of O
W.KT Teston bp15/9/1895 Elvy d/o Benjamin/Alice, hkr of Romford [WHITNEY sic]
W.KT Teston bp16/9/1900 (b1896) Walter s/o Walter/Alice, lic.hkr, van dwellers
W.KT Teston bp16/9/1900 (b June 1898) Matilda d/o Walter/Alice, lic.hkr, van dwellers
W.KT Teston bp20/9/1903 (1 yr, 8 mo) Janie d/o Walter/Alice, hkr of van
1851EX-1783/143/7 Elijah (43) tinker, Sarah (39) +6
1871EX-1667/21/33 John (48) tinman, Charlotte (31) +7
1871EX-1687/81/15 Sarah (66) hkr of pegs +3
1881EX-1787/55/24 Thomas (24) pedlar, Annie (21) +0 [WHITNEY sic]
1881EX-1787/63/8 Ambrose (48) hkr +0
1881EX-1787/85/12 Abigail (31) tailoress +1 [WHITNEY sic]
1881YKS-4698/34/4 Elijah (50) lic.hkr, Eliza (50) +2 [WHITNEY sic]
1891EX-1390/81/11 John (35) hkr, Mary (30) +5 [WEBB sic]
1891EX-1410/8/8 Thomas (37) tinker, Annie [née FROST] (27) +4
1901EX-1693/10/12 John (45) scr.gr & cutler, Mary (45) +8 [WHITNEY sic]
1901EX-1708/6/3 Thomas (49) tpl tinker, Annie (39) +8
-
thankyou for your help, i am trying to find a marriage record of my great grandparents Benjamin and Alice whitney (nee Durrant) but so far no luck, also i have come to a dead end regarding their parents, can i ask where you got your informatiopn from, thankyou again,
Cathy
-
My infomation came from my database which I have compiled over many years. It is freely available - see "Name The Church" thread - although the original baptism information came from Essex Record Office, Bromley Library and West Kent Record Office plus the censuses which are available online.
This looks like your ancestor, Benjamin with his parents, although you have to bear in mind that WHITNEY can also be spelt WITNEY:
1881EX-1770/22/38 Prittlewell
Henry WITNEY 29 hawker
Matilda 30
William 6
Benjamin 4
George 3
Daniel 1
James under 1 month (all born Stowmarket SFK as per the census entry)
Watch for a link to the WEBB family.
TL
-
thankyou so much, catherine
-
The marriage you seek is registered at Romford in December Quarter 1894 between Benjamin WITNEY and Alice DURRANT.
If you have precise dates of death for those buried at Edmonton I could check to see if there is more information available.
TL
-
On Ancestry there is probate information for Benjamin WHITNEY. Also another daughter of Benjamin and Alice called Beatrice born 1915, died 1917. I cannot locate the family in the 1911 census.
TL
-
hi, thankyou very much, i will get back to you with the exact dates, but my gt grandfather whitney ben, died in 1945 aged 69 and my gt grannie whitney alice died 1969 i think she was 92. i am so grateful for the information they were married at romford. the story goes that alice came from a well to do family who didnt like travellers, so she ran off with him! Beatrice fell off a horse i think,
my aunt tilda her sister took me to see her grave once in edmonton cemetary.
regards Catherine
-
The following census extracts are relevant:
WHITNEY
1901MDX-1261/7/3 William (27) gn.lab, Alice (27) +2
1911HRT-Cheshunt, Sch 277, Henry (56) lab, Susan (54) William (38) Daniel (34) James (32) Ellen (21)
1911MDX-Edmonton, Sch 207, James (30) lab, Sarah Ann (31) Nelly Matilda (5) Florence Alice (9w)
The discrepancies are
1) Susan has replaced Matilda of 1881. The suspicious part is that although Susan is stated to have been married to Henry for 39 years the children given are four born and four alive, none deceased, which omits the other children.
2) James appears with his wife and two daughters as well as under his father's Schedule, in 1911.
3) Noah's dob is given in his death registration as born 3 August 1897 although the baptism at Orpington seems to have said b3/6/1897. His birth registration in S1897 would support either date.
Elijah snr died in 1857 so there was time for him to have had a son called Henry bc1852 and there is one Henry WITNEY registered Dunmow in J1853. Some of Elijah's other children were registered in Essex.
TL
-
Hi just wondering if I can help at all. Was googling my old family names, Payton and Whitney, and came across this post. Ben Whitney was my great great grandad, Tilly is (was) my great auntie she has 2 sisters still alive my Nan, Nellie Patterson (Whitney ) and Alice still living in Edmonton. Tilly, Fred, Barbara and Ted were the other siblings all passed over. Don’t know if that might help you.
-
Hi Faye,
nice to hear from you, i am Freds daughter, your nans brother. we met last year at the family get together,
i have been researching the payton and whitney side of our tree for the last 5 years, i belong to Ancestry, and have learnt a lot. The beginning of this story on here, refers to Uncle Noah, nanny Paytons brother, and his son Noah boy.
love
Cathy
-
hi, i am cathy daughter of frederick payton, noah whitney was his uncle, alice and ben whitney are my great grandparents. uncle noahs wife elvina was killed in a car accident (run down). they have a son noah who still lives in takely essex. if theres anything else i can help you with please let me know, cos i am still in contact with the whitneys.
Hi Cathy,
I have been contacted by the church re the death of Noah boy. His mother and my grandmother Gumble were sisters and buried at Hatfield Broad Oak.They were trying to find next of kin. I was trying to find out if there are any of his cousins still alive on the Witney side? Also a lady has now come forward to claim his body - Joanne Laffar? Is she a relative?
-
Hi Cathy I have just been reading the comments on here i am your dad’s cousin bill Whitney,I notice on here they left my dad out of brothers and sisters who are buried in Edmonton cemetery william whitney he was second oldest son.I was surprised to see Noar boy died .Have you been trying to do a family tree it’s quite difficult.Hope you are keeping ok.by the way little sister who died of meningitis
-
In my tree I have Alice Gumble,
BIRTH 1861 • Southend, Essex, England.