RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Mauritius123 on Friday 22 October 10 09:55 BST (UK)
-
Hi,
We have been researching family history for many years now and have hit a dead end with Joel Rowsell.
We believe he was born in 1806 and died in 1886. We can find him on the 1851 and 1881 census as living in London where he was a Master Bookseller.
If you google him there are many references to his book shop on the Strand.
We have heard from someone on another forum that he is buried in Highgate Cemetry and are currently investigating this.
He does not appear on any earlier census and there had always been suggestions that he spent his early years at sea.
I have found out where to order BMD certificates which would be nice but we are eager to find out more.
He was a Whittingtonian and also belonged to The Athaneum club.
Could anyone help or point me in the right direction please?
Many thanks
-
Hi,
The pilot family search site has a Joel Rowsell baptised on 17/06/1806 at St. Mary, Lambeth, Surrey, England. Parents Richard & Sarah Rowsell.
Sharon
-
And there is a will listed in the National Probate Calendar on Ancestry - death 24 June 1886, probate 30 July.
Linda
-
Where could I find out information about his early life?
-
1871 census at 55 Lawford Road St Pancras aged 60.
Some databases have this one indexed as Joel Ramsell.
-
1861 at 9 King William Street aged 50
Ancestry has it as Joe Rowsell
-
I have located him on the census in 1851 and 1881 as a Master Bookseller in London.
If he was born in 1806 then these entries that you have found do not quite add up. Difficult to know whether there were 2 Joel Rowsells in same area of London at around the same time?
-
In 1881 he shows as aged 70 so that is consistent with 1861 and 1871. Of course he may have been consistently understating his age.
-
And aged 42 in 1851 which would suggest 1808/9.
-
There is another Joel that was born in 1797 & baptised in 1802 at St Mary, St Marylebone Road, parents Aaron & Ann Rowsell.
Sharon
-
Joel's marriage at St Margaret Rochester from City Ark confirming his father as Richard
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0a5f/
Hackney St John
Richard ROWSELL, bachelor, otp
Sarah SNOOK, spinster, otp
Married after Banns 9 Sep 1805
Both made their mark in presence of Soloman Taylor, Benj. Crook
Ian C
-
The only wife I've noticed in the censuses is an Elizabeth !
She first appears in 1871 aged 45 and they are listed with two children Emily 12 and Charles F, 6, and a niece Ann (?) Brotherwood aged 17. EDIT - I think this is Agnes Brotherwood born Hadlow Kent circa 1853/4
Joel consistently states his birthplace as Middlesex, but is inconsistent about the parish - sometimes St Giles or St Martins or St Stephens
-
I am unable to find them on the 1871 census on Ancestry - where were you looking?
-
Look for Joel Ramsell
-
The Joel ROWSELL born 1822 died in 1854. His father was William, born 1790 London, whose father Joel born 1764 came from Somerset
There is a Richard ROWSELL, born 1783 in Somerset, whose father was Amos ROWSELL, born 1761 in Somerset, and who is a brother to the Joel born 1764. Quite possible this Richard is the one who married Sarah SNOOK in 1805 and the father of Joel the Bookseller
Joel born 1764 was a Nurseryman in Enfield and died there in 1844.
From a tree on A******Y
Ian C
-
becuase i had type this out i will post it anyway
09.05.1805 Richard Rowsell m. Sarah Snook at St Johns Hackney (after banns bach, spin, BOTP both made their mark and wits Soloman Taylor, Benj. Crook)
17.06.1806 Joel Roswell was christened at St. Mary, Lambeth, Surrey, the son of Richard & Sarah Rowsell.
1851 Joel Master Bookseller aged 42 b. Middlesex St Giles lodging at 20 Great James Street St Andrews Holborn (which would suggest he didn’t have his own shop because would you own a shop and not a house? If he owned a shop wouldn’t he live upstairs?)
1861 Joel at 9 King William Street aged 50
1871 Joel at 55 Lawford Road St Pancras aged 60. with wife Elizabeth aged 45 and 2 children Emily 12 and Charles F aged 6 and a niece Ann Brotherwood aged 17
1881 Joel Master Bookseller aged 70
24.06.1886 died, will 30 July 1886 possibly buried Highgate cemetery
Joel was a Whittingtonian and also belonged to The Athaneum club. – do these have records ?
Where was he between birth & 1851 ? have you got Richard & Sarah on the census or their deaths ?
There is another Joel that was born in 1797 & baptised in 1802 at St Mary, St Marylebone Road, parents Aaron & Ann Rowsell. What happened to him it is important to know not to confuse things.
If Joel went to sea then possibly his records are held at The National Maritime Museum in Greenwich it would be easier to find records if you know which ship he sailed on.
If Joel married Elizabeth and they had a child Emily aged 12 in 1871 it wouldn’t be unreasonable to suggest they married in the 1850’s
30 July 1886
Rowsell Joel personal estate £3,467 19s 1d
The will of Joel Rowsell late of 3 Caversham Road, Kentish Road in the County of Middlesex who died 24 June 1886 at 3 Caverhsam Road was proved at the Principal Registry by Elizabeth Farrant of 19 Argyle Square Kings Cross in the said County Spinster the sole executrix.
Have you got details for his bookshop from directories? (historicaldirectories.org) he could be listed pre 1851
-
This obituary fragment says that he spent his early years at sea but gave up after being thrice shipwrecked. Will try to find the full obit.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=wGNIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA16&img=1&pgis=1&dq=%22joel+rowsell%22&sig=ACfU3U2FJ3gastNz39Q6_p-Q9xcO2-Zc-A&edge=0
-
The full obit is in this text archive but it takes ages to load http://www.archive.org/stream/bookmartamonthl01unkngoog/bookmartamonthl01unkngoog_djvu.txt
-
All Saints Edmonton
1808 Jul 17, George, s/o Richard & Sarah ROWSELL, Silver street, Labourer, born Feb 12
1809 Dec 3, Henry, s/o Richard & Sarah ROWSELL, Fore Street, Gardener, born Oct 11??
1814 Jul 17, Thomas, s/o Richard & Sarah ROSEWELL, Fore St, Gardener, born 1814 Jun 7
1816 Feb 18, Mary Ann, d/o Richard & Sarah ROWSELL, Fore St, Gardener, born 1816 Jan 20
1818 Jan 16, Louisa, d/o Richard & Sarah ROSEWELL, Fore St, Gardener, born 1817 Dec 15
1820 Feb 9, Sarah, d/o Richard & Sarah ROSEWELL, Church St, Gardener, born 30 Sep
1825 Jan 25, Richard, s/o Richard & Sarah ROWSELL, Bury St, Gardener, born 1824 Dec 23
Henry, as a widower marries 14 Aug 1853 at Hackney St John to an Emma IVES. His father is listed as Richard ROWSELL, Gardener. His first wife was Lucy FISHER and they were living at Bury Street.
Burials at All Saints Edmonton
Sarah ROWSELL, 2 Nov 1840, from Bury St, aged 60.
Richard ROSEWELL, 17 Dec 1832, from Bury St, age 53.
Louisa ROSWELL, 7 Dec 1832, from Bury St, age 15.
Lucy ROWSELL, 2 Jan 1846, from Bury St, age 36 - Henry's first wife
Louisa ROWSELL, 28 Jan 1838, from Bury St, age 5 - Henry's daughter
Sarah married 17 Jul 1842 at West Hackney to John WARBEY, her father being Richard ROWSELL, Gardener
Ian C
-
Apparently Joel's executrix Elizabeth Farrant was the mother of his son Charles Frederick
http://www.bbcwhodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=4528&hilit=&sid=0dbec4977b4402b7ccf472b1dc9e41eb
-
I wish they would tell us all they know when putting up a request saves repeating things ::)
-
Rowsell marriages with father Richard
John Rowsell & Emma Hare 18.12.1878
Henry Rowsell & Emma Ives as previously mentioned
Charlotte Louisa Rowsell & Jabez Henry Sheldrake
-
Thank you to all of you for your help I feel that we are getting somewhere.
When was the first census to be published? Was it 1841.
Any ideas on how we would see what he did prior to 1828 whe he returned from the seas and became a book seller?
-
There is a Richard ROWSELL, born 1783 in Somerset, whose father was Amos ROWSELL, born 1761 in Somerset, and who is a brother to the Joel born 1764. Quite possible this Richard is the one who married Sarah SNOOK in 1805 and the father of Joel the Bookseller
Joel born 1764 was a Nurseryman in Enfield and died there in 1844.
From a tree on A******Y
Ian C
There is a will for the Joel who died in Enfield on TNA : http://www.rootschat.com/links/0a5i/ - could provide info on the earlier family?
-
the first census was taken actuallyin 1801 but was just simply a population count these records do not survive there were further census taken in 10 yearly intervals but the first one to survive nearly in full is the 1841 census and this is the first one that listed peoples names and ages albeit rounded down.
so you already know he returned from sea in 1828 i wish you would tell us all you know to save us duplicating or wasting time searching have you looked at records at NMM to see if they can help with his seafaring record?
have you looked in directories to see where he was if he was selling books it is likely he would be listed
have you looked at tax records and tithe maps ?
-
This bookseller Henry Rowsell must surely be a cousin !
http://www.biographi.ca/009004-119.01-e.php?&id_nbr=5813&&PHPSESSID=ychzfqkvzape -
-
mauritis123 you havent answered any of my questions
-
Toni,
Sorry for not replying:
I did not think to look at tax records and tithe maps no, thanks for the advice.
We do know where he was selling books and have documents on this.
We know little of his life between birth and returning from sea in 1828 - do not know what ship/s he sailed on which makes searching difficult. I will contact the National Maritime museum, thanks.
My father has just managed to locate the Athaneum records but we have drawn a blank on the Whittingtonian ones.
It would be really good to find out so much more - one person suggests that Henry Rowsell is a cousin so will have a look at that.
Many thanks for all your help so far.
-
Arriving very belatedly to this discussion which I've just found.
Toni wrote (Reply #21, October 2010) that Rowsell marriages with father Richard included
"Charlotte Louisa Rowsell & Jabez Henry Sheldrake"
Charlotte was the oldest of the three siblings born to my 2xgt grandparents, RICHARD ROWSELL (who died in December 1860, aged just 33) and his wife, LOUISA MARY VERONICA PAULY (1817–1890).
The only census record for Richard is the 1851 when they were living at 2 Meadow Road, Newington, which states that Richard was born in Switzerland.
However, as it also states that Louisa was Swiss, and I have found her baptism record in 1817 in Lambeth, I wonder if perhaps he moved to Switzerland when very young (as did Louisa) and they just didn't know where he was born.
However, as a result, I have not as yet been able to track down the names of 'my' Richard's parents.
Charlotte was born in 1850 in St. Andrews Road, Newington, followed by my great-grandfather (Richard John) in 1856 in Surrey Street (now Davidge Street), Southwark, and Henry J in 1858.
Their father died at 11 Elizabeth Place (now Princes Road), Southwark in December 1860 and is buried in Victoria Park Cemetery, Bethnal Green, Hackney.
In 1861 Louisa and her children were living at 78 Tower Street (now Morley Street) in the Borough of Southwark.
Charlotte married Jabez Sheldrake in 1867 at All Saints, Lambeth (which was later demolished when Waterloo station was expanded).
I know that this doesn't help solve the mystery of Joel but I hope that sharing what something about Charlotte might save unnecessary research time.
However, I'm now wondering whether there is perhaps a connection with Joel's family, though I doubt that going to sea would involve going to Switzerland.
Janice
-
I now believe that my 3xgreat-grandparents were Richard and Sarah (nee Snook) as I have a good DNA match with a descendant of their daughter Sarah (1819-1874) who married John Warbey.
This means that my 2ggf Richard is the youngest brother of Joel, and was slightly older than I had previously thought.
The connection with Switzerland is that Richard's wife, Louisa Mary Veronica Pauly (1817-1890), was the daughter of the Swiss inventor, Samuel Johann Pauli (aka Jean Samuel Pauly - see his entry on Wikipedia which I have augmented greatly). I think this must have caused some confusion when the 1851 census was taken.
I now also have Sarah (nee Snook)'s death certificate - she died on 27 Oct 1840 in Edmonton, and her husband had predeceased her.
-
I posted this quite a few years ago now! Wondered if anyone can find anything else that could help us? Still cannot find any maritime records.