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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: janeli_1 on Thursday 21 October 10 21:46 BST (UK)
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I am Canadian. I am trying to trace my mother's ancestors back a little further.
Gilbert Gray was born in Hawick in 1769. He married Margaret Riddle born 1769 on Oct 12 1802 in Edgerston. Before emigrating, they had 8 children born in Roxburghshire ......... I think. James Gray1803 Hawick who married Isabel McFarland in 1832, 3 days before sailing for Canada. Other children: Elizabeth Gray1804, Agnes Gray 1806, Caroline Gray 1807, Jannet 1809, Margaret 1813, Gilbert Gray 1815. I have Agnes born in Ancrum and then back to Hawick with Gilbert. Either they moved around or I have misinformation.
In Canada, Isabel McFarland died with no children. James Gray then married Alison Irvine who was born 1823 in Scotland .......... I believe Hawick.
I have the Irvine's of Hawick back to Thomas 1675-1738, his 2 wives Jean unknown with 7 children and another unknown with 8 children.
I am hoping someone who is researching these families will read this.
Thanks,
Jan
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Hello Jan
I have no connection at all with your family, but have some idea of the geography involved as I live in Roxburghshire.
The IGI has a baptism for James in 1803 in Hawick. Neither the IGI nor Scotlandspeople appears to have a baptism for Elizabeth and Agnes, other than a patron submission for Agnes' death in Ontario in 1890.
Caroline's baptism was in Cummertrees, which is in Dumfriesshire. I can't see a baptism for Janet, but both Margaret and Gilbert's baptisms are at the presbyterian church in Glanton, which is in Northumberland in England.
My guess is that Gilbert GRAY was a farmworker, as farmworkers attended an annual hiring fair and if offered better wages or a better house would readily move. Shepherds in particular seem to move quite long distances, perhaps because they attended livestock sales and met up with other shepherds from further afield who could give recommendations (or otherwise!) for certain farmers.
Regards,
Lesley
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Thanks, Lesley for your efforts on my behalf. Your information about shepherds was good to have. It certainly would explain moving about. Gilbert and Margaret had 8 children that I know of. I will get busy on IGI and look at what you found. Sometimes one tiny little tidbit is enough for me to gather lots of info.
THANK YOU!
Jan
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Hello Jan
Noticed in your posting a Smith interest in your family history.
Mine too, mainly in Hobkirk area but maybe some connection.
Would be interested to hear about yours
Regards Grant
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Hello
You are interested in Turnbull?
Mine are many generations in the N of Elgland (Sunderland etc) but came from Scotland (where they abound to this day despite many emigrating)
Please let me know about your Turnbull
Esdel
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Hi Jan James Gray was my great great great grandfather :) Hope you are still registered!!
He was born in Ireland according to Scotlands People website... Isabella was born in Joppa and there was a 20 year age difference.
Hope to talk more,
Alastair
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Now reading your post properly things don't ring true... my info was taken from the 1861 census James was 60 then and it states he was born in Ireland but his children to Isabella McFadgen (could be mcfadden as can't read Roberts marriage register very well) were born in Hawick... Thomas Gray circa 1849 and Robert circa 1853/4.
What do you think... are we on the right family here :)
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Now reading your post properly things don't ring true... my info was taken from the 1861 census James was 60 then and it states he was born in Ireland but his children to Isabella McFadgen (could be mcfadden as can't read Roberts marriage register very well) were born in Hawick... Thomas Gray circa 1849 and Robert circa 1853/4.
What do you think... are we on the right family here :)
Hello Alastair. I checked the IGI, and your James Gray and Isabella McFadyen were married in 1835 in the Barony parish of central Glasgow.
I was interested in your post, as I know that there was quite a lot of Irish immigration into Hawick in the mid-1800s, including my own Pettigrew ancestors, who came from the Belfast area. And I happen to know that there are 2 separate Gray branches in my Pettigrew tree. Gray was a common name in Counties Antrim and Down, and when I looked for the birth of a James Gray born around 1801 on the IGI, there were 19 hits, the vast majority from Northern Ireland.
Harry
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Thanks Harry, you obviously know what you are doing... I am very new to this but yes I remember my gran saying that our ancestors on the Gray side were Ullans (UlsterScots) You have solved the McFadgen, McFadden riddle for me so its McFadyen! What is the IGI by the way? I'm spending a fortune on Scotlands People :)
I have a friend Jim Pettigrew in Kilmarnock!
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The IGI is the International Genealogical Index. It has flaws - of the "garbage in, garbage out" sort - but it's still an invaluable aid to finding out quickly where and when people with a particular name were born/baptised or married. Not so good for deaths. If you Google the full name you'll get to it. It's accessible via Family Search.
When I was researching my Pettigrews years ago I discovered that my ancestor Agnes Pettigrew's brother Daniel Pettigrew had moved to Beith in Ayrshire, not far from Kilmarnock. However, that is an area where the name Pettigrew has been common for centuries.
Harry
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For a number of reasons (no interest to any of you) I have had a slow down over the past few months. Time to catch up especially with so much information coming my way.
Grant: Oct 2010
I only had Jannet Smith 1758 but after getting on to scotlandspeople (which I very recently discovered) I found what follows …..hopefully I am correct! Any names in common?
1.Robert Smith (1722 - ) b: 1722 in Scotland
..... + Alison Irvine (1725 - 1801) b: 12 Sep 1725 in Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland, m: 03 Apr 1748 in
Ancrum, Roxburghshire, Scotland, d: 03 Apr 1801
........... 2 John Smith (1749 - ) b: Abt. 1749 in Wilton, Roxburghshire, Scotland
........... 2 Thomas Smith (1751 - ) b: Abt. 1751 in Wilton, Roxburghshire, Scotland
........... 2 Walter Smith (1753 - ) b: Abt. 1753 in Wilton, Roxburghshire, Scotland
........... 2 James Smith (1755 - ) b: Abt. 1755 in Wilton, Roxburghshire, Scotland
........... 2 Jean Smith (1756 - ) b: Abt. 1756 in Wilton, Roxburghshire, Scotland
........... 2 Jannet Smith (1758 - 1818) b: Abt. 1758 in Wilton, Roxburghshire, Scotland, d: 03 Dec 1818
........... + Walter Irvine (1740 - 1806) b: 09 Apr 1740 in Monkscroft, Minto, Roxburghshire, Scotland, m:
29 Dec 1785 in Hawick, Roxburghshire, Scotland, d: 17 Mar 1806 in Scotland
........... 2 Nelly Smith (1762 - ) b: Abt. 1762 in Wilton, Roxburghshire, Scotland
........... 2 Robert Smith (1764 - ) b: Abt. 1764 in Wilton, Roxburghshire, Scotland
........... 2 Thomas Smith (1768 - ) b: Abt. 1768 in Wilton, Roxburghshire, Scotland
Esdel: I think you and I have exhausted possibilities re Turnbull
Alastair, Harry:
I think we have a different James Gray. Unfortunately a common name. According to a letter written by my grandmother born 1882, her grandfather James Gray and Isabel McFarland were married in may of 1832. They boarded a ship in Liverpool a few days later and sailed to Canada. Isabel, sadly died of cholera in 1833. James Gary married a second time. Until I found the letter last year, I was unaware he had a wife before my 2X great grandmother Alison Irvine.
James’ parents were Gilbert Gray (1769-1843) and Margaret Riddle (1769-1854). Gilbert was born Hawick, Margaret Scotland. Both died in Canada. An uncle of mine went to Scotland years ago to acquire this information. The names carry through future generations. I have no parents for either Gilbert or Margaret.
Any match??
Jan
:) :)
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Alastair, Harry:
I think we have a different James Gray. Unfortunately a common name. According to a letter written by my grandmother born 1882, her grandfather James Gray and Isabel McFarland were married in may of 1832. They boarded a ship in Liverpool a few days later and sailed to Canada. Isabel, sadly died of cholera in 1833. James Gary married a second time. Until I found the letter last year, I was unaware he had a wife before my 2X great grandmother Alison Irvine.
James’ parents were Gilbert Gray (1769-1843) and Margaret Riddle (1769-1854). Gilbert was born Hawick, Margaret Scotland. Both died in Canada. An uncle of mine went to Scotland years ago to acquire this information. The names carry through future generations. I have no parents for either Gilbert or Margaret.
Any match??
Jan
:) :)
I just found a copy of a note written by a minister re James Gray. My grandmother's information was out by a year and wife's name incorrect. So much for oral history!
This is to certify that James Gray, gardener, and Isabella Fairington, his wife, at this date leave the United Associate Congregation here, in full communion with the United ______Church.
It is signed John Hunter, Belford, May 14, 1833.
The name of the church looks something like Luession or maybe Luepion.
This probably doesn't improve the connection, but maybe????
Jan
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Hi Jan
The missing word you are looking for re the church is 'Secession'.
Isabel's name is more likely 'Fairnington': the IGI has a likely Isabel FAIRNINGTON christened in 1802.
Regards,
Lesley
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Thanks!!! Secession .............. of course! Makes perfect sense! I am trying to learn how to read the old handwriting but often miss by a mile! I will try IGI again and maybe scotlandspeople.
Thanks so much for your help!
Jan
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This question is still in Hawick, Roxburgh but different family. Adam Irvine and his family headed for Canada 1842. I couldn't find census on ancestry but there is an 1841 census in scotlandspeople. The record is for Hawick and in front of each family is the name of the village/square/close etc. It looks like Whiskyhouse. Is that either a village or house or .....? The children's names match perfectly except one (nickname?) The girl is correctly listed as 2 years older than the next sibling. Birth/baptism clearly shows her as Janet but census might say Jessie? Is that an unusual nickname for Janet?
Birth baptism for 3 of the children shows church as Auchterarder congregation about 1820. Are the 2 locations close together? Google helps with spelling but doesn't always help with exact locations.
Any help will be much appreciated!!
Jan
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Hi Jan
Yes, the address is 'Whisky Houses' (nothing to do with whisky but a corruption of an earlier name), an area in what today is Slitrig Crescent.
Parts of the brewery where Adam would have worked still exist, and are listed- see:
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/sc-51230-17-18-and-19-slitrig-crescent-
Modern postcode is TD9 0EN, so you can find an aerial view.
Yes, Jessie is a common nickname for 'Janet'.
The children were all baptised in Hawick at the parish (St. Mary's) church, which is very close to where Adam IRVINE lived and worked. The term 'Auchterarder congregation' is connected with the schisms which were developing in the Church of Scotland from the 1820's- a very long and complex story!
Regards
Lesley
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Hi Jan
Yes, the address is 'Whisky Houses' (nothing to do with whisky but a corruption of an earlier name), an area in what today is Slitrig Crescent.
Parts of the brewery where Adam would have worked still exist, and are listed- see:
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/sc-51230-17-18-and-19-slitrig-crescent-
Modern postcode is TD9 0EN, so you can find an aerial view.
Yes, Jessie is a common nickname for 'Janet'.
The children were all baptised in Hawick at the parish (St. Mary's) church, which is very close to where Adam IRVINE lived and worked. The term 'Auchterarder congregation' is connected with the schisms which were developing in the Church of Scotland from the 1820's- a very long and complex story!
Regards
Lesley
Wow, thanks so much, Lesley. I have 10 children baptised in Hawick and sadly the 2 eldest died before the family emigrated. From notes my mother had, I knew an Aunt Jessie raised my great grandmother when her mother died when she was only 4 years old. Adam Irvine had a niece named Jessie and I just couldn't make it work! I have so many ancestors in Scotland it is not frugal to overdo research on scotlandspeople (although i do do quite a bit!). Since you have confirmed that Jessie was an AKA for Janet, everything has fallen into place....... even Janet/Jessie's marriage! It never ceases to amaze me how one tiny bit of information can quickly snowball and tie previous knowledge together.
I don't do well with Google maps but will get my husband to help.
I am very excited to have the connection bringing my information together!
Jan
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Hi :-)
I have Scott, Gray, Turnbull in my tree from Hawick
Regards
Fiona
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for the Scottish Borders try search on the Maxwell Ancestry website - free Census info for 1841, 1851, 1861 & index of some paternity cases, etc
Worth checking out
What Turnbull's are you looking for