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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => US Lookup Requests => Topic started by: mallow on Tuesday 19 October 10 16:14 BST (UK)
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Hello :)
Is it possible to track down records for people born or married in New York for the years 1856-1860 I have tried everywhere to look for these records with no luck thanks for any help.
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have you tried familysearch.org (http://familysearch.org)? I'm sure I saw some on there
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Thank you Liverpool lass but I had no luck ever the person I am looking for is Annie catherine Williams born 1857+OR-5 YEARS Syracuse New York or marriage for her parents George Williams and Harriet Greatrix same time frame
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do you have any more info on her or her parents
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George williams was born 1834 in stafford staffordshire occupation butcher i cannot find anything on Harriet
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George williams and Harriet must have rturned to England after Annie catherine was born as their next two children were born in England in 1860-1862 maybe they are on a passenger list
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thank you for moving my request to this site, are there any known passenger lists I could look up for people arriving in Syracuse on those dates, or where would a birth have been registered in Syracuse Thank you for any help
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New York passenger list
The image is a bit difficult to read, but it looks like:
America sailing from Liverpool to NY, arriving 23 March 1857.
George Williams, age 22, Butcher, England
Harriet Williams, age 22, England
Written under their names (perhaps just a coincidence)
Thomas Bache(?), age 24, Butcher, U.S.
Mary Bache(?), age 20, U.S.
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According to typed information, Bache could be Barke.
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Thank you so much Lisa for that information as they are both under the name of Williams they must have gotten married in England (harriets maiden name was Greatrex) they had their first child in Syracuse and then they returned to England is their a return passenger list
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You are welcome.
So far, I can't find anything else helpful, but I'm continuing to look.
P.S. Are you sure they were in the Syracuse area?
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I found an 1859 directory (included Syracuse), but I didn't see someone with his name, as butcher.
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The 1861 UK census for Stafford St Mary gives Ann Williams born 1858 United States.
The 1871 UK Census Stafford St Mary gives Livingstone. United States.
The 1881/1891 UK Census Salt and Enson. Stafford shows Ann Catherine Allsopp (now married) born 1858 Syracuse. United States.
The 1901 UK Census Bradley. Shropshire shows Annie Burchell (remarried) born 1862 Syracuse.
So there could be a distance between Livingstone and Syracuse ???
Unfortunately the UK Incoming Passenger Lists do not start until 1878.
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FYI: From the 1871 England Census: Staffordshire, St. Mary, Stafford:
George Williams (married) Age 38 Butcher b. Wood Eaton, Staffordshire
Dorothy A. Williams (wife) Age 25 b. Cheddleton, Staffordshire
Anne C. Williams (daugh) Age 13 Scholar b. Livingstone, America
Francis Williams (son) Age 5 Scholar b. Stafford, Staffordshire
Louisa Williams (daugh) Age 4 Scholar b. Stafford, Staffordshire
Thomas Machin (appren) Age 18 Butcher's Apprentice b.Market Drayton
George Walker (appren) Age 14 Butcher's Apprentice b.Saudon
Elizabeth Smith (serv) Age 17 Gen. domestic Servant b.Stafford
There is also a family tree listed on ac that indicates that George had another wife, but it did not provide any names or sources
(Livingston County is located in Western New York, south of Rochester and east of Buffalo and is part of the Rochester NY Metropolitan Statistical area)
Deborah
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Hi Sandra. Thank you for the added information.
Hi Deborah. Thank you as well. I know very little about the eastern states. It helps to have someone who has knowledge about the area.
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Hi Lisa & Deborah,
I have a doubt in my mind that birth records may not be available for the time period when Ann Catherine Williams was born - 1858.
Some upstate cities began recording some births a few years prior to 1881: Albany, Binghamton, Buffalo, Elmira, Newburgh, Poughkeepsie, Rochester, Syracuse, Utica and Yonkers.
Might the only chance be trying to locate a Church Record ??? Difficult because of knowing exactly where she was born ???
Not locating the family on the 1860 US Census and they are in the UK for 1861 - must have been a short stay.
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I was just going from the England census saying she was born in Livingston NY and found this record from the NY 1860 Federal Census. It appears to be the only Ann Williams listed in Livingston, NY:
Ann Williams
NY
Livingston County
Township: York
1860
Federal Population Schedule
Page: 341
NY 1860 Federal Census Index
Also this is an interesting link which may (or may not!) provide you with some insight on retrieving records from this area. Good luck!
http://genforum.genealogy.com/ny/livingston/ (http://genforum.genealogy.com/ny/livingston/)
Deborah
http://genforum.genealogy.com/ny/livingston/
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I was just going from the England census saying she was born in Livingston NY and found this record from the NY 1860 Federal Census. It appears to be the only Ann Williams listed in Livingston, NY:
Ann Williams
NY
Livingston County
Township: York
1860
Federal Population Schedule
Page: 341
NY 1860 Federal Census Index
Also this is an interesting link which may (or may not!) provide you with some insight on retrieving records from this area. Good luck!
http://genforum.genealogy.com/ny/livingston/ (http://genforum.genealogy.com/ny/livingston/)
Deborah
http://genforum.genealogy.com/ny/livingston/
I also saw that entry yesterday but it is for Ann Williams born 1834 England, Ella J Williams aged 2 years born New York and on the previous page John Williams aged 27 years Born New York (Carpenter.
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Thank you all for your input of information, it looks like maybe they did not even bother to register her in America I do have a parish record of her christining back in staffordshire a few years after she was born so her parents may have thought that was enough, I dont know why they spent so little time in America maybe visiting relatives named Williams. do any Williams show up on 1861 census for Syracuse or livingstone?
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You are welcome for the help.
Regarding their brief stay: during the past couple of years, a few people I've helped had ancestors/rellies who only stayed in the states for a short time. Suggestions were made that they missed their family, the winters were too cold, the hope of work didn't pan out, death in the family either in the states or back home in the UK, etc.
I'll have a look for Williams in 1860.
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I didn't find any Williams, born in England, living in Syracuse or Livingston. :-\
There were almost 275 Williams born within ten years of 1835, born in England, living in the State of New York.
Could Harriet have had family in the states, as well?
There were no Greatrix/Greatrex living in the State of New York in 1860.
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Thank you very much Lisa for that look up, it would have been a George Williams senior that was living there
dob 1809 England we think that is who they were visiting or burying as he is reported to have died in NY his occupation was also butcher. The only other look up in the usa I was looking for was a Francis (Frank) dob 1865 england who went to live in Cincinati in 1885 I think he was in the grocery business he married out there as wel,l would love to be able to find out more about him.
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This could be Frank:
1910 Cincinnati Ward 12, Hamilton County, Ohio
Frank Williams, age 44, married 22 years, born England as were parents, immigrated 1885, Conductor, Street Car
Carrie D Williams, age 31, married 22 years, mother of 3 children, born Ohio as were parents
Harry C, age 20, Ohio, Messenger, Court House
Bessie F, age 18, Ohio
Ralph S, age 8, Ohio
Morency(?), Charles A, Boarder, age 20, born Massachusetts, father born Canada (French), mother born England, Cutter, Leather Cutter
Address: 2927 Sandler Street
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Having trouble finding them in 1910. Meanwhile, Frank and Carrie were living in Cincinnati in 1930. Frank was a Store-Keeper, Candy.
Harry was living with them.
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1920 Cincinnati Ward 25
Frances Williams, age 54, England, immigrated 1885, Conductor, Street Car
Carrie (age 51) and Rory (age 18) were living with him.
You may be able to find out more about the Williams on the familysearch website. (Note: the 1920 census information is shown on this site, but the Druches (who are shown as living in the household) actually do not live with them.)
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1900 the family are in Cincinnati Ward 28, Hamilton, Ohio
Francis Williams 38 Born May 1865 England. Married 13 years. Immigrated 1885. NA Conductor.
Carrie D Williams 31 Born Dec 1868 Ohio. Had 2 children and 2 survive.
Harry C Williams 10 Born March 1890 Ohio
Bessie F Williams 8 Born August 1891 Ohio
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Francis Williams married Carrie Miller 27 Sept 1887 Hamilton. Ohio
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0b66/
Ralph Leroy Williams born 1902 Cin. Ohio married Luella Schumacher 3 March 1923 Hamilton Ohio.
Ralph's parents (which gives his Mothers Maiden Name) Francis Williams and Carrie D. Miller
Luella's parents were - Christopher Schumacher and Theresa Eckels
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0b63/
This looks like the couple in 1930 Sycamore, Hamilton, Ohio
Roy Williams 28 Born Illinois Father Born England Mother Phio. Married at 21 years. Coach Operator. Street Railway.
Luella Williams 27 Born Illinois Married at 19 years
Robert Williams 4 Born Illinois
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Reply 21 showed Charles Morency in the household.
Bessie Williams married Charles Morency 8 th August 1912 in Hamilton. Ohio.
Bessie' parents:- Frank Williams and Carrie Miller
Charles Parents:- Charles Morency and Louise Boucher.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0b65/
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Thank you so much Lisa and Sandra for all that information, I am very gratefu,l I never thought you would find out so much, will try now to find any living relatives :) Thanks again
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You are very welcome. The best of luck with your search.
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Just another small snippet.
Ralph Leroy Williams Born: 18 Dec 1901 Hamilton, Ohio and Died: 23 Aug 1957
Sherman Oaks, California.
Luella Louise Schumacher Born: 25 Aug 1903 in Ohio and Died: 10 Oct 1977 in Sherman Oaks, California.
They had 1 daughter that I found - will send details via pm
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California Death Index shows:- Ralph Leroy Williams - Birth Date: 18 Dec 1901 Ohio
Died 23 Aug 1957 Los Angeles. California.
Mother's Maiden Name: Miller
Father's Surname: Williams
Luella L Williams Birth Date: 25 Aug 1903. Ohio
Died 10 Oct 1977 - Los Angeles. California.
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Oh dear - I have traced Elaine Carol Williams born 26 February 1933 in Cincinnati, Ohio. Unfortunately she died 28 May 1985 in Encino, California.
Elaine had married Fredrick Redman Roth 30 August 1974 in Van Nuys. California.
Name: Elaine C Williams. Aged 41 years Born about 1933
Spouse Name: Fredrick R Roth. Aged 42 years
Date: 30 Aug 1974 - Los Angeles.
Name: Elaine Carol Roth (Elaine Carol Williams) Born 26 Feb 1933 Ohio
Died: 28 May 1985 Los Angeles. California
Mother's Maiden Name: Schumacher - Father's Surname: Williams
Frederick Redman Roth - Born 8 Dec 1931 in Louisville, Kentucky. Died 24 Noc 2004 in Biggs, California.
US Veterans Gravesites:- Fredrick R Roth . Born 8 Dec 1931 and Died 24 Nov 2004
Cemetery: Glen Haven Memorial Park - Cemetery Address: 13017 No Lopez Cyn Road Sylmar, CA 91342
US Army
Regards
Sandra
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Reply 26 showed that Bessie Williams had married Charles Morency.
It looks as if they divorced and Bessie remarried 24 August 1918 in Hamilton. Ohio to George Martain (who was born New York City 1876)
Brides previous husbanmd name:- Morency
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0b89/
This is the couple on the 1920 Census in Cincinnati Ward 25, Hamilton, Ohio
George Martain 44 Born New York. Decorator. Wallpaper.
Bessie Martain 28 Born Ohio. Father England Mother Ohio
Ralph Martain 5 Born Ohio
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1930 Census Cincinnati, Hamilton, Ohio
George Martain 54 Owns Home $8500. Decorator. Painting/
Bessie Martain 38 Born Ohio
Ralph Martain 16 Born Ohio
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SSDI shows:- Bessie Martain. Born 2 August 1891 and Died April 1979
Last Residence: 33157 Miami, Miami-Dade, Florida.
Last Benefit: 33125 Miami, Miami-Dade, Florida.
SSN issued: Ohio (Before 1951)
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SSDI shows:- Ralph Martain. Born 17 March 1914 and Died Sept 1975
Last Residence: 45242 Cincinnati, Hamilton, Ohio
SSN issued: Ohio (Before 1951)
Ohio Death Index gives a little more information:-
Ralph W Martain Born 1914 . Was residing - Blue Ash. Hamilton Ohio. Aged 61 years. Married.
Died : 7 Sep 1975 in Hospital. Montgomery. Hamilton. Certified by Coroner. No Autopsy.
Certificate: 065430
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This looks like the probably wife of Ralph -
SSDI shows:- Bertha Martain. Born 6 April 1913 and died March 1985
Last Residence: 45242 Cincinnati, Hamilton, Ohio.
SSN issued: Ohio (Before 1951)
Ohio Deaths shows:- Bertha J Martain, Born about 1914 Ohio Resided in Blue Ash Hamilton Ohio
Died 13 Mar 1985 In hospital - Bethesda North. Montgomery Hamilton . Aged 71 years. Certified by Coroner with autopsy used for certification. Widowed. Homemaker. Certificate: 021064
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Thank you again Sandra it looks like it will be a long paper trail to find living relatives :)
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on looking over all that information again Sandra you really did a lot of work and it has been most helpful I am very grateful, thank you again. :) one last question ? where do i start to find out if Ralph and Bertha Martain had children. I dont know how to go about American records
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Hello Mallow,
Perhaps if you could locate an Obituary that may give details of any family. The link below is for the Public Library in Cincinatti. Hamilton County. Ohio. On the top - right hand side - "Services" - if you follow this link it leads to "Ask A Librarian" - then there is an option to "Chat with us". Hope this may be of help.
http://www.cincinnatilibrary.org/
Regards
Sandra
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Thank you Sandra I will have a look at that :)