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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: lemming23 on Monday 18 October 10 00:08 BST (UK)
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I am a distant relative of the Muttons/Webbs of Mutton Falls living in England and have seen online that this book is available in NSW libraries:
Out of Cornwall : the story of Richard and Mary Mutton / Vera Joan Lynch & Kenneth Roughley pub 2000
It doesn't seem readily available to buy but has anyone read this and if so, is it the story of Richard Mutton who arrived in Mutton Falls 1827 with his wife, Mary nee Short, son of William and Grace Burnard of Stoke Climsland, Cornwall? If not, does it give a good indication of life in this area in the nineteenth century?
Hoping someone can help,
Lemming
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This book is available at the Australian National Library. I can have a look but won't be there till late in the week. The subject/s listed for the book are: Mutton family. | Bernard family. | New South Wales - Genealogy. | Cornwall (England) - Genealogy.
The catalogue says it is available from
(*) However it was published 2002 so perhaps she is not the contact any more.
There is a strong Family History group at Cowra who may be worth contacting -- I'm not sure where Mutton Falls is but the author of the book is in Cowra so................
http://www.heritageaustralia.com.au/links.php?browse=c&id=654#id
Judith
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Hi there,
The Bathurst Family History Group has lots of good info too ...
MUTTON is a surname listed 57 times in their Pioneer Register and there's also a download document about 1830's Bathurst area...
http://bathurstfhg.asn.au/index.shtml
Also two chaps with surname MUTTON listed on that site under Landholders
MUTTON R. E. ROOKWOOK GEORGE'S PLAINS (Could this be your Richard ?)
MUTTON THOMAS C.S. RAYALS OBERON
Do you think your Mr Mutton may have arrived in Australia per "Elizabeth" 7 April 1827 ... I have forebears on that voyage from Cornwall ...
Cheers, JM
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Many thanks to both of you for your response and for the new leads you suggest. Yes please Judith - it's very kind of you to offer to have a look at the book on my behalf. Richard and Ann's mother was a Burnard which makes me think it could be about this family but I didn't realise that the name was so common. I'd be very grateful!
I discovered this branch of the family when I found this newspaper article, which I found fascinating:
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=TS19091125.2.58.4&l=mi&e=-------10--1----2-all
Ann seems to have been quite a character! I'd like to read more about her! Her husband was a William Webb.
I don't think Mutton Falls exists now except there's a guest house there. It's about 23 miles from Oberon I think/Tarana. The name might be a corruption of Mutton Ford as there used to be a ford here crossing the Fish River.
I don't think either of the Muttons you mention is "my" Mutton but I think the family aboard the Elizabeth might well be, JM. The names of the children fits, the timing, the port of departure - everything except for the inclusion of a Margaret Mutton and the exclusion of a Mary! Nevertheless I think this must be the same family. Have any stories of the journey been passed down to you? If so I'd love to hear them,
Lemming
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Hi there,
Do you think your "Mary" may have been "Margt". Also there were at least two people named Richard MUTTON in NSW in 1828 ... one came on the Mangles in 1823, the other on the Elizabeth in 1827 (many Wesleyans on the 1827 voyage) ...
I had understood that Richard E MUTTON of Rookwook, George's Plains arrived in 1827 as a baby (born Cornwall 1826) and that he was the son of Richard and Margaret, and that his date of death was around April 1896. I was given that information and reference numbers etc and I recall looking him up at the NSW State Records Office ...
The person giving me that information had thought he was among the youngest on that vessel. However, I "knew" that a baby had been born on that voyage, and so together the other researcher and myself have established that Richard E Mutton was the youngest male passenger, as the baby born onboard was female.
One of the Webb family of Mutton Falls : http://www.rootschat.com/links/0a41/
Online link to historic newspapers for Australia ;) http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM,
It's a bit of a puzzle! The census for 1828 definitely says Margaret but everything else says Mary Short eg if you look here on p103, p93, http://www.oberonaustralia.com.au/OberonHist.pdf
Richard senior appeared to move to Wattle Grove. Is this anywhere near George's Plains?
Richard did, however, have a son Richard Edward born 1829? (which doesn't fit) who married a Margaret Murphy and also a son Thomas who might well have been a baby on the Elizabeth so this might explain the confusion - 2 Richard Muttons one marrying a Margaret and one a Mary - but it doesn't explain the census information!
There might well be a connection with Wesleyan Methodism. My g g grandmother was Mary Mutton, a cousin of Richard and Ann. She had her children christened by the Bible Christians who later merged I think with the Methodists and I know that my more recent family were Wesleyan so that part fits very well!
Thank you very much for the links. The William from the story! (although I couldn't quite understand why he didn't just open the store and sell the tobacco!) I shall enjoy browsing both sites,
Lemming
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This book has 300pages and is a most comprehensive account of the family with genealogical information from Thomas and Mary BURNARD resident in Alternon in the early 1600s through to some family members born in the mid-late 20th century.
Richard and Mary (nee SHORT) MUTTON who are the focus of the book left Plymouth on the Elizabeth, November 1826 -Richard 29, Mary 26 and William 4. Richard's maternal line were BURNARDs.
I would urge you to try and get hold of the book if possible although I realise it is ten years old now. It is not possible to do justice to the material it contains but if you have any specific queries I would be happy to have another look. The publisher is listed in the NLA catalogue. The Printer was Central Commercial Printers Pty Ltd Bathurst.
Judith
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There has been some information written about Richard and Mary Mutton's lives and their arrival on the Elizabeth which may help you.
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/
The tree is named our_families, the owner may even have a copy of the book that you are interested in.
Cazay
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Hi there
I'm happy to check out the local history offerings at Bathurst library for you. Unfortunately I won't be in town again until next Thursday :)
Cheers
MM
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Good afternoon all,
So - it was the Elizabeth and it was Mary and not Margaret!
I am overwhelmed by all the help people on here are giving! A particular thank you to Judith! I'll definitely try to get hold of a copy of this book. My account with Bathurst FS has just been activated and so I will try there and also try the Cowra FS. I have taken your advice Cazay and emailed the owner of the tree you mentioned.
If you have the time and inclination to find out what you can from the Bathurst Library on my behalf I would be be very grateful Miss May. There is no rush at all - except that I'm becoming increasingly interested in this branch of the family! I find their spirit of adventure amazing!
Lemming
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R'chatters on the Australia Board are very special and very happy to help as well as being meticulous researchers.
I am constantly amazed at the resilience and enterprise shown by our forebears who took such risks and left their homes to come 12000 miles. My Irish family came with 2 small children when Melbourne was only 5 years settled. I would have thought getting from Tipperary to Plymouth would have been enough of an undertaking. My Northumberland family's mother had her first letter from them 4 years after they left - she had given them up for dead.
Enough! Do let us know how you get on!
Judith
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Hi Lemming
Bathurst library has a copy of "Out of Cornwall" available for reference only. If there is anything specific that you would like me to look up for you, make a list and post it here as I go to the library each week. Unfortunately, as Judith has mentioned, the book is now out of print. One of our local independent bookshops who often stocks local history books, is unable to find a copy anywhere, and there are no remainder copies with the printers. The lady author from Cowra has unfortunately passed away, but being a small town I have been given the contact details of one of her adult children who might be able to help in case the author saved some copies. I shall pm those details to you. There is also a 2nd author who I think is based in Sydney, but I really have no way of tracking him down. Modified: just checked his name against Ryerson and there's one there for 2002.
Having now seen this book, I would suggest that it would be invaluable for your family research, and wish I had such an extensive record of my family :)
MM
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The Sydney Herald Monday 6th August 1832 p4
Colonial Secretary's Office Sydney 30th July 1832.
Yearly Leases of Land
Mention of 1280 acres bounded on the north by the fish river etc..applied for by Richard Mutton.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12844983?searchTerm=%22Richard+Mutton%22
Gerry
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Thank you Gerry - seems like a lot of land to me - just 5 years after they arrived in Australia! He certainly couldn't have done this in Cornwall!
Miss May,
I can't think of any particular points for you to check in the book - except I would be interested in knowing if they kept in contact with the family left behind in Cornwall - or anything about William Mutton and Mary Parsons their grandfather -but, I have heard enough to know I want to see this book! I am waiting to hear from Bathurst FHS and also Cowra FHS and will try to contact the author's relative directly otherwise. Thank you so much for finding out contact details on my behalf.
Perhaps if it's not too much trouble you could look to see if the library has a copy of:
William and Ann Webb by Ken Mugglestone1990. I don't know the publishers - but this is about Richard's sister Ann who also seems to have been a formidable woman. Richard's brother, Robert Mutton, also emigrated to Wallaroo Mines about the same time - they must have been quite a family.
Lemming
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Hi Lemming
Got your pm - a pleasure to help and especially interesting since it's local, even though they're not my rellies :)
I shall look for the other book you mention in the local library.
For interest, the area is extremely pretty especially along the river. Mutton Falls does indeed still exist, and Mutton Falls Road is the main route into O'Connell. The countryside is very unspoilt and not at all built up. It is still possible to find gold and semi-precious stones around Oberon/Tarana/O'Connell, especially sapphires ;)
Most of the early settlers were involved in the goldrush as the Fish River between Bathurst and Oberon yielded it's first recorded gold finds in c1823.
MM
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I thought I'd share my excitement with you! Following leads given on here I am now awaiting delivery of my own copy of Out of Cornwall! I would certainly not have been able to have tracked it down without all of your help- so- many thanks! I feel quite gleeful!
A very grateful Lemming!
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Good Morning,
My great-great Grandmother is Mary Mutton of Cornwall born 1824 the daughter of William Mutton and Elizabeth Dunn. Mary married William Pearn in 1843 and in 1846 moved to Beardstown, Cass County, Illinois. The author of the book, Out of Cornwall: The Richard and Mary Mutton Story, contacted my family in the late 1980's while writing the book. Our family tree contains the Mutton/Dunn/Burnard families. We have been trying to locate a copy of the book since the author included ancestors in the book. Would you be so kind to forward the booksellers information so that I might contact them about obtaining a copy of the book?
By the way, I live in the United States.
Thank you
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Hello Nlywhite,
I'll pm you,
Lemming
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;D ;D ;D
Thanks for letting us know - it's so nice when people find what they need. And now we've helped someone from another of the colonies LOL
I thought the book was most interesting.
Judith
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Good Morning!
I noticed in the previous posting that there was an article link. One of the people mentioned in the article was a Tinck. What is very strange is that my Mary Mutton's husband William Pearn died not to long after they arrived in Illinois. She remained a Richard Tink who happened to be her first cousin. Richard Tink's parents are Samuel Tink and Catherine Mutton of Cornwall. Richard was born in 1835 in Lewannick.
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Good Morning again.
I very helpful site for those trying to locate their ancestors in Cornwall is the Cornwall Online Parish Clerks. The site has wonderful information and each parish clerk is willing to assist with questions.
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/personsearchdb.php
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I am now on p160 of Out of Cornwall and it is indeed fascinating. I am informed it is currently being reprinted and can recommend it to anyone who, of course, has any connection with this family but also to anyone who is interested in the history of families in general, and in pioneering families in particular. "Bravery" doesn't quite do them justice!
Lemming
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Hi,
I am just wording if you were able to track down a copy of 'William and Ann Webb : A family history' By Ken Muggleston. I am trying to find a copy. I contacted the Bathurst Fanily History group - but they have been unable to find there copy.
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No Bob I'm afraid I haven't. Maybe the Australian National Library might be worth a try? I have ordered pages from journals from them to be emailed on-line so this is a possibility. Please let me know if you find a copy and good luck!
Lemming
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And a belated welcome to rootschat!
PS I can recommend reading the journal of Arthur Wilcox Manning describing his journey aboard the Earl Grey. It's interesting in its own right but even more so when you remember that the Webbs were aboard ship at the same time. (The handwriting is also easy to read!)
See here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,506271.0.html
Lemming
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Couldn't see anything about the Webb family history book on the NLA catalogue.
http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/
This article mentions Ken's book and quotes from it with spelling of his name as 'Muggleston' and 'Mugglestone'
http://www.oberonaustralia.com.au/OberonHist.pdf
Judith
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Thank you for looking Judith,
Lemming
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Hi,
I know this thread is from a few years back, but William and Ann Webb are my partners great great grandparents. My partners father owns "Sydmouth Vally" at Tarana and is deeply involved in family history. If the Webb history book is around, he would have a copy. He has extensively studied the heritage and is very knowledgable
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.... Just as a little further info, Ann owned Mutton Falls and the land the church now stands on. She was a formidable woman and single handedly fought of bushrangers. She was a character
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Many thanks for writing Kristelwebb!
If your partner's father would like to contact me I'd be grateful for any information and I might be able to give him some information from the English end. (You need to have made a minimum number of posts before you can pm)
Best wishes,
Lemming