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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Tehmi77 on Saturday 16 October 10 16:46 BST (UK)
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Hi, I wondered if anyone can help me? I am trying to trace my fathers side of the family back, however his father died very young, and so he knows very little of his granfathers history. So far i have managed to find out he lived in Sora Italy, and his name was Paquale Cerrone. He was a farmer, and as far as I am aware he had no brothers or sisters.
The story is he came over from italy on a ship that was due to go to america, however he ended up in England for some unknown reason, I do not know what year this was either? He ended up living in Alcester, Warwickshire for the rest of his life. He married a Constance Costellucio in May 1900, who was also apparently from Sora? They had four sons, Anthony, Mark, Peter and John.
If anyone knows anything that could help me, I would really appreciate your help.
Many thanks
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Did he marry in England? I can't find any records on Ancestry.
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yes they did
Marriages Jun 1900
Castelluccio Concetta Birmingham 6d 375
Cerrone Pasquale Birmingham 6d 375
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you could try posting on here http://italiangenealogy.com
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Looks like he served in WW1 in the Worcester Regiment as a private - under soldier number 50352.
If this is the right man he died in Alcester in Dec 1918 aged just 36.
So born around 1882 then.
If you want to get the cert the ref number is 6d page 1629.
Use http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Oh and welcome to Rootschat by the way- sorry I didn't say so at the beginning ;D
Carol
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We are not allowed to do look ups on Rootschat of the 1911 census,but I suggest you splash out on one yourself as it may well give you more relatives from Sora Caserta.
And more info about his children.
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusPersonStartSearchServlet?censusYear=1911
Looks like Concetta married a William Baylis in Alcester in Sept 1919 ref 6d page 2271
Carol
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I have found someone who speaks English that goes back to 1804 with their tree for Cerrone ...and the 1804 is in Sora, Italy.
the tree owner is M. Polsinelli ... is that you ??
allan :)
i`ll PM you the e-mail address anyway ;)...won`t receive my PM....you have to make 3 posts and then I can send.....allan
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We are not allowed to do look ups on Rootschat of the 1911 census,but I suggest you splash out on one yourself as it may well give you more relatives from Sora Caserta.
And more info about his children.
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusPersonStartSearchServlet?censusYear=1911
Looks like Concetta married a William Baylis in Alcester in Sept 1919 ref 6d page 2271
Carol
thanks for that i new my grt grandmother re-married but was not sure to whom.
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Thanks Carol, I was told he served in WW1, he was discharged for chronic asthma the same year though, and yes he did die very young, as did his son, my grandad, he was only 45 too.
I had been told my grt granmother concetta had re-married though, but was unaware of when and to whom, so thank you for that.
Allan
I am a Cirrone, my father Peter Cirrone was the son of Peter Ontonio Cirrone, which was Pesquale's son. Apparently the story is that Pasquale had a little too much to drink when signing the birth certificate and signed Ci instead of Ce and the name has stuck ever since. All of Pesquale's other sons john, anthony and Mark were all Cerrone's.( I am still trying to clarify this story as this is how my auntie remembers her father telling her how it happened.)
thanks
Tehmi
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I'll alert Sheron B to this thread, her family are from Sora.
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Thanks Carol, I was told he served in WW1, he was discharged for chronic asthma the same year though, and yes he did die very young, as did his son, my grandad, he was only 45 too.
I had been told my grt granmother concetta had re-married though, but was unaware of when and to whom, so thank you for that.
Allan
I am a Cirrone, my father Peter Cirrone was the son of Peter Ontonio Cirrone, which was Pesquale's son. Apparently the story is that Pasquale had a little too much to drink when signing the birth certificate and signed Ci instead of Ce and the name has stuck ever since. All of Pesquale's other sons john, anthony and Mark were all Cerrone's.( I am still trying to clarify this story as this is how my auntie remembers her father telling her how it happened.)
thanks
Tehmi
Hello Tehmi.
Most Italians in Birmingham were from Sora, my greatgrandfather came there in 1895, this I know from obtaining his Alien Reg Card from WW1, this I got from West Midland Police Museum.
http://www.westmidlandspolicemuseum.co.uk/
Email Dave Cross.
His birth act I obtained from the Archives of Sora, this does take time, 4 months in my case:
vfontana@archivi.beniculturali.it
Best to email in Italian,the forum mentioned in gortonboys post is very good, they are experts and will help you.
The LDS does have the records for Sora, but the birth Acts are not indexed and I found them to difficult to read.
As to other records I used an Italian Researcher, very cheap compared to Irish Research and now go back to the mid 1700s.
Good luck.
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I have found someone who speaks English that goes back to 1804 with their tree for Cerrone ...and the 1804 is in Sora, Italy.
the tree owner is M. Polsinelli ... is that you ??
allan :)
i`ll PM you the e-mail address anyway ;)...won`t receive my PM....you have to make 3 posts and then I can send.....allan
I have Polsinellis in my tree, way back though.
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SheronB,
Thank you for your information, do you know if you can go into the West Midlands Police museum in Sparkhill and request the WW1 alien Card records, if so what information would i need to give them to obtain this?
Would you mind giving me the details of the italian researcher you used?
Thanks again
Tehmi
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Hiya...at last...PM sent to you with e-mail address of someone who has CERRONE 1804 in Sora,Italy ....he speaks English and his name is Mike....good luck....allan ;)
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Sheronb can you help me?
I have contacted west midlands police museum, but they only hold records for birmingham alien reg cards. They gave me the details of Warwickshire records office, who I have contacted and they do not have Pasquale's Alien reg card either. I am awaiting some documentation from Worcester regiment, but am not sure how much this will help.
You mentioned previously that they have records on LDS, I have done a search and there is nothing listed under Cerrone at all. Does this mean If I ordered the microfilm for his year of birth (1884) that it would not be listed on there?
Also at this stage i do not know whether he had any brothers or sisters, and I still do not know his mother and fathers names. If I wrote to the records office in Sora, and requested his birth act, would they look up his parents birth, marriage and death records as well if asked or is this a bit too much???
Thanks
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Hello Tehmi.
No just because you can't find the name Cerrone on a search doesn't mean it won't be there on film, this is what they have for Sora:
Title Registri dello stato civile di Sora (Frosinone), 1809-1899
Authors Sora (Frosinone). Ufficio dello stato civile (Main Author)
Notes Microfilm dei registri originali nell'Archivio di Stato, Caserta, e nell'Archivio di Stato, Frosinone.Births, marriages, deaths, miscellaneous documents, marriage documents.Include indici annuali.
Subjects Italy, Frosinone, Sora - Civil registration
Format Manuscript (On Film)
Language Italian
Publication Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmati dalla Genealogical Society of Utah, 1979-1993
Physical in 79 bobine di microfilm ; 35 mm.
For a printable version of this record click here then click your browser's Print button.
© 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
I know for 1872 it was not indexed, and was too difficult for me to read.If you recieve the birth act from Sora, this will tell his mothers name, but I doubt they will look for other records for you, the Italian forum would know the answer to that question.You would need I reckon tp pay the Researcher to find these records.
As to the Alien Reg Card, I know the National Archives only hold London ones a s far as I know, so am stuck as how to help you there, maybe post a new thread here asking for help or ring back the West Mid Museum and ask if they know. Good luck.
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Thanks again Sheronb, I am sorry to be thick but am I right in ordering the following microfilm if his birth is 1884.
Nati 1882-1886 FHL INTL Film
1883348
and I just phone up my local centre and request they order it for me, is that how it works?
Thanks again.
Tehmi77
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Yes that looks right, but check at the centre first. you have to go there to order the film.
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Thanks again Sheronb
xx
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I have new info on Pasquale's sons, because John the youngest was only 8 when Pasquale passed it is thought that he went to live with a Lombardi family in Birmingham in the Italian quarter. I am still finding out if Mark and john went with him, as Concetta married again a William Baylis in 1919, and as yet I am not sure if they went to live with them. However Concetta died in 1921 so not sure what happened from then.
Does anyone recall any story like this within their family, a Cerrone coming to live with them. I believe the Lombardi's were in the ice cream business and possibly related to the Cerrone's??
Also anyone from the Baylis family,who would have been living in Birmingham, possibly the Aston area around 1921, who knows of their grandparents marrying a Concetta Cerrone from Sora, Italy. Did any of her sons come to live with them, names possibly were Mark, Peter Ontonio, and John Cerrone.
Gosh this is really exciting and becoming a full time job!!!
Tehmi77
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Tehmi.
Have you searched the electoral rolls? On this site, you can pay to do so:
http://www.midlandshistoricaldata.org/
Only for certain years up to 1955, but it's ok for your needs.
Join this forum:
http://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum.php
Someone may have a sub to that site and can help you out, they are very good. Or if you live in bham, Central Library on the 6th floor has free access to that site.
Most Italians in bham sold Ice-cream or played the organ or were Marble Workers!! lol, try to get hold of the book Bella Brum, Central Library has a copy.
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Hi
My Name is Christian Cerrone and I have just been to Sora, my great grand parents came over to Birmingham in 1900 from Sora, Albert Cerrone and Lucia Cerrone. Contact me to discuss more
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Hello Christian Cerrone,
When you went to Sora, did you find all the records you needed to trace your ancestors ? The LDS has birth, marriage and death records for Sora (Frosinone)
1809 - 1899. You could order the films at a LDS Family Search Centre near you (in most large towns) and then go and take the necessary notes. The records would be in Italian.
Geraldine Gasparelli
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Hi
I only went to Sora on a quick visit no time to do much research. I am stuggling to find any information on family in Sora my great Nans maiden name was "Ifaratte" which i cannot find anything on. Sora is a beautiful place though.
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Hello Cerrone
Could the name have been Iafrate? Lots of these in the Lazio area.
http://www.gens.labo.net/en/cognomi/genera.html
Join this forum, they are experts
http://www.gens.labo.net/en/cognomi/genera.html
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Hi Christian,
I have recently used Ann Tantangelo the italian researcher to get me some information on the Cerrone family. She sent me information from the registration of population, there were apparently some pages missing, as the document is 150 years old but I did not have an Albert Cerrone listed on the information I have. Could it be that Albert was his english name and he had a different Italian name?
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Christian,
Are you a member of Ancestory.com? if so you can see my full family tree listed on there. Do you know the dates of birth of Lucia and Albert, and who their parents or brother and sisters were?
Tehmi
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Sheronb
I have Polsinelli's way back in my family tree on my grt grandmothers side. Carmina Polsinelli was my grt gtr grandmother, she married Giovanni Castellucci.
Tehmi
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Tehmi
My Polsinellis are way back late 1700s/early 1800s. three sisters Rosaria, my g,g,g gran, sister Maria, plus another one, need to look her up, all married Tuzi, 2 brothers and a cousin.They were the daughters of Domenico and Antonia Marchione. there probally is a connection somewhere!
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Hi
My great nan's sister was called Amelia Iafrate and she married Giuseppe Panacci who was known in England as Joseph Pagett and they had a son Anthony Pagett.
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Hi Cerrone,
There is an Albert Cerrone's death in 1939 in Birmingham, could this be you grt grandfather, if so this means he was born around 1889?
Do you know his fathers name?
Tehmi77
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Hello,
My aim here is to understand the best ways to check records in Sora and any other advice on gathering information from Italy...
Contacts? Record checks I can do from the UK?
Paid researchers?
What's LDS Family Search Centre? Can I order records for Sora??
I am new to all this but I've just begun to attempt to trace my family back too.
Our family name is fairly unique but also susceptible to mis-spellings which is going to make it a little more difficult.
Today it's DeCianti
but may be listed as De Cianti
However, I do know that my great grandfather came from Sora, Italy.
Probably born in the late 1800's so 1880's - 1890's I guess...
They moved to London.
Had several children. Maybe some in Italy maybe some when in the UK.
(there are others that went to USA and beyond. Maybe they are related)
I don't know if they had brothers and sisters (most likely, as Italians had big families)
I don't know if/where others might have gone.
And like someone mentioned earlier, they too had ice cream businesses!!
I am going to sign up for Ancestry.co.uk to get a few more details but whilst browsing, got this site and couldn't wait to write!
I was the first family member to ever visit Sora a few years ago.
Very nice town. I went to the main cathedral but at the time I was not really researching and didn't know how to.
Currently I am in the process of starting a family tree. Your discussion here has really inspired me! (so thank you all)
BTW - carol8353,
you put in your 'tag' the name Rogers for Hammersmith and Fulham. My Grandfather married a Rogers from Fulham.... maybe of no interest/connection but...
Thanks to you all.
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Hello mrd.
Welcome!
I think in my previous posts to other members, I've given info on how to trace your Sora Ancesters, but also join this site:
http://italiangenealogy.tardio.com/
As to the name DeCianti. It could also be De Ciantis. if you put that name into this site:
http://www.gens.labo.net/en/cognomi/genera.html
You will see it is common to the Lazio region, if you try your spelling, nothing....yet in 1744 the name was known in Sora:
http://www.italyworldclub.com/genealogy/surnames/lazio/frosinone/sora-onciario.htm
In my tree I do have a Vincenzo Di Ciantis born 1860 marrying Maddelina Corridore, she is the daughter of my great,great grandfather's sister.
The records from Sora, you can order at a centre and go view them, but as I have said before for the years 1872-ish, these were not indexed and were very,very hard to read unless you are fluent in reading Italian. I emailed the archives of Sora for my great grandfathers birth act, I did this in Italian,I recieved it after 3 months. Besides the records LDS have, census etc are not online and you will need to pay a researcher to find these for you, they are well worth the money and very informative....
Do you have them on the 1901/1911 census? Most Italians in Birmingham were from Sora.
Anyway good luck, if you need any more help just ask.
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Hi mrd
Yes the sites that sheronb mentions are all good means of information. Ancestory is good for searching the census information and Births, marraiges and deaths, it does not have the 1911 census information but if you join
www.findmypast.co.uk you can obtain this from there.
I used an Italian researcher after speaking with Sheronb who is based in Sora, and she has been excellent. She can obtain information from Sora's archives which will help you piece together your tree depending on how much information you already have.
I wrote to the Italian archives too and received both my grt grandfathers and grt grandmothers birth acts, this took 3 months and was completely free, however again if you wanted to get things done quicker the Italian researcher will do this for you at a cost. She is very reasonable and if you are interested I can pass you her details.
Good luck, and If I can be of any assistance just contact me.
Tehmi
xx
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Thanks so much for your help and advice.
So it sounds like the best thing to do is to get a specialist to check the Sora records for me...?
I have a better idea on names and birth dates etc. so perhaps that should help... I hope.
Not sure if they did go to Birmingham at all first as they were all in London for the most part.
Are you able to recommend an Italian researcher?
Hopefully it's not too expensive.... ???
I've joined Ancestory which has been great. And opened a few questions!
But I shall also join findmypast and check the census for 1911 as technically I think they should have been in the UK by then.
I'm going both backwards, forwards and sideways with this so far! I'd love to find some connected living relatives. That would be amazing.
Thanks to you all so far for your help and tips.
Let me know the name of the researcher when you have a moment.
Cheers all.
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Sorry, one more question..
When you wrote to the Italian Archives, was this AFTER you confirmed their birth dates and places etc. after the research? I'd imagine so...?
Best,
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Hello mrd
Yes and no, I wrote to the archives before I confirmed my g.grandfathers birth date, but I know he was born Sora, you do need the place of birth......I knew his father's first name as he was with him on the 1901 census and it was an unusual name, Amadio. On this info the archives found his birth act and this was with his name being changed! It was Tuzi in Italy and became Tuzio/Tuzzio.
Good luck.
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Hi mrd,
The italian researcher I have used was Ann Tantangelo, her e-mail address is
(*). She is excellent and very reasonable.
Ann can also get the birth act for you also for a very reasonable price and you would get it a lot quicker.
If you e-mail me directly I may be able to help you further.
my e-mail address is (*)
Tehmi77
(*) Moderator Comment: Personal details removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Thanks again everybody.
I've managed to piece together some interesting history. But would now like to explore the Italian records and see what comes up...
Tehmi77 - the email addresses have been blocked and can only be sent via PM system. I'd really like that contact!
I'll have to catch you online one day/eve? I think for the PM system.
sheronb - thanks. I've looked at the 1911 census and found that our name has been spelt both ways... It will be interesting to see what it says in Italy!
Cheers
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Apologies for adding personal data
Tehmi77
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mrd,
if you can't get hold of me I am on ancestry.co.uk you should be able to get hold of me there.
tehmi
x
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Hi all,
Just thought I'd drop a quick note to say I had contacted Ann for some local Sora searching and she did come up with some information.
The information at this stage, for me, is a little shakey still, a few discrepancies, of which I hope that Ann will help me investigate... however, I've not heard anything back as yet regarding my request for 'phase 2'...
I'm wondering, do you know of any other researches worth contacting?
Also any other forums you guys have been using at all?
Look forward to hearing back when you can.
Best,
Carlo
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If you are certain that the relative was born in Sora, check out the LDS catalogue
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fcatalog-search-api%3A8080%2Fwww-catalogapi-webservice%2Fitem%2F14568.
Good Luck,
MW
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my great nan was amelia Iafrate and my great grand father was Guiseppe Panacci, from Sora.they also had a Daugther (my grandmother) Winifred or in italian Asunta aswell as her brother Phillip and vincent.
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Hello Sherond,
My family name is Corridore. My parents came from Sora, Frosinone and have lived in Canada since the 1950s.
I am searching for family ancestors from Sora.
I can go back as far as I my great-grand parents.
What can you tell me about Maddelina Corridore? She may be one of my great-grand parents sisters. Did she get get married in Sora or the UK?
Thanks for your help
Hello mrd.
Welcome!
I think in my previous posts to other members, I've given info on how to trace your Sora Ancesters, but also join this site:
http://italiangenealogy.tardio.com/
As to the name DeCianti. It could also be De Ciantis. if you put that name into this site:
http://www.gens.labo.net/en/cognomi/genera.html
You will see it is common to the Lazio region, if you try your spelling, nothing....yet in 1744 the name was known in Sora:
http://www.italyworldclub.com/genealogy/surnames/lazio/frosinone/sora-onciario.htm
In my tree I do have a Vincenzo Di Ciantis born 1860 marrying Maddelina Corridore, she is the daughter of my great,great grandfather's sister.
The records from Sora, you can order at a centre and go view them, but as I have said before for the years 1872-ish, these were not indexed and were very,very hard to read unless you are fluent in reading Italian. I emailed the archives of Sora for my great grandfathers birth act, I did this in Italian,I recieved it after 3 months. Besides the records LDS have, census etc are not online and you will need to pay a researcher to find these for you, they are well worth the money and very informative....
Do you have them on the 1901/1911 census? Most Italians in Birmingham were from Sora.
Anyway good luck, if you need any more help just ask.
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HI Tony.
My grandmothers mother's name was Vincenza Iafrate.
She was born near Sora on 1876 and died December 1952.
Her husband was Salvatore Bruni born 1866 died in 1940 or 1942.
my great nan was amelia Iafrate and my great grand father was Guiseppe Panacci, from Sora.they also had a Daugther (my grandmother) Winifred or in italian Asunta aswell as her brother Phillip and vincent.