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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: Aussie1947 on Friday 15 October 10 15:13 BST (UK)
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Hi from Australia,
Today I purchased the death certificate of my GGGM who died at Smythesdale in the Colony of Victoria in 1870 aged 28.
Prior to her marriage in 1862 to Adam Young her name was Catherine Hayes the daughter of Elizabeth Hayes and John Hayes (farmer) and her place of birth was Carrigatoher Tipperary Ireland. Catherine would have been born around 1842.
Catherine would have migrated to Victoria Australia around 1857 and I have been told that other siblings including Margaret Hayes, Michael Hayes, Edward Hayes and Bridget Hayes migrated as well. I understand that Catherine's mother Elizabeth migrated as well.
I'm looking for any information on the John and Elizabeth Hayes family at Carrigatoher from early to mid 1800s.
I hope I have the spelling for the village correct.
Regards Gerry
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There are a few different places in Tipperary named Carrigatogher - they are townlands, rather than villages. A townland is the smallest division of land.
see the townland database at : www.thecore.com/seanruad
I'm not sure why there are three sub-divisions shown - Abbot, Harding & Ryan, but they seem to the near to each other or possibly adjacent.
Do you know what religion your Hayes family were ?
Shane
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Shane,
Thanks for the prompt reply and information on the townlands.
From Catherine's marriage certificate they were married by a catholic minister.
There is no religion stated on Catherine's death certificate but on her husband's in 1880 it is C of E.
I would guess that Catherine may have been Catholic.
Gerry
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I dont see a Carrigatogher in Co. Tipperary on modern maps, but based on the Registration District (Nenagh) and the Civil Parish (Burgesbeg) - found a possible general location :
Nenagh to Burgesbeg (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Nenagh,+Ireland&daddr=Burgesbeg,+Ireland&geocode=FVqfJgMd6eKC_ykVwQOHXJFcSDFz31N34KDy5w%3BFeTlJQMdSuqA_yltwzcfo5lcSDGi8LW6p8cAJg&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=52.3804,-8.083045&sspn=1.4285,3.543091&ie=UTF8&ll=52.83181,-8.271675&spn=0.087946,0.247192&z=12)
The civil parish of Burgesbeg seems to be part of the RC parish of Youghal Arra - see : Youghal Arra RC Parish (http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&CityCounty=Tipperary%20North&parish=YoughalArra&churchid=759) (Irish Times) Click on on the link below the details to show the civil parishes included, then click on Burgesbeg to show the townlands.
p.s. Is there a maiden name given for Elizabeth or does the record just state John and Elizabeth Hayes ?
Shane
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The marriage certificate says father John and mother Elizabeth Quinley.
Gerry
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Carrigatogher can be found about 4 miles south west of Nenagh town just off the main Nenagh Limerick road. The townland is subdivided in three Abbott - Harding and Ryan. See map for location
http://www.property.ie/property-for-sale/Carrigatoher-Nenagh-Co-Tipperary/392333/
annclare
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Annclare,
Thanks for the information, I have now found that in 1851 there were 6 Hayes families at Ryan which may look promising.
Gerry
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Quigley or Quinn would have been more usual names in those parts rather than Quinley.
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stonepegger,
Thanks for the reply and information and you are spot on. I have carried out more research and believe that her name was Bridget Quigley and married John Hayes on 7th Feb 1823 at Nengah. From an inquest into her daughters death (Catherine Young, nee Hayes) in 1870 at Smythesdale Victoria mention is made of her mother living nearby which meant that Bridget had migrated as well, don't know about her husband John Hayes.
Regards
Gerry
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Hi Gerry, We had a Hayes family in my part of Vermont from the neighboring townland pf Ballywilliam, came out here in the 1850s. A lot more folks came from just west around the parish of Castletownarra slate quarry region. That parish sent many many people to Vermont and Australia.
Regards,
Peter
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I looked at the RC parish records for Carrigatoher (Burgess & Youghal)and found the following baptismal records for the children of John Hayes and Bridget Quigley.
27 Mar 1829 Thomas - Sponsors Jam(s) Grady Judith Quigley
29 Apr 1831 Matthew - Sprs Jno Lacy Mary Brien
26 Aug 1839 Catherine - Sprs Patk Kenna Honora Kenna
15 May 1844 Mary - Sprs Jas Lacey Mary Hogan.
I searched to end Dec 1859 but did not find Michael Margaret Edward or Bridget. Are you sure this is the correct family?
Regards
annclare
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annclare,
Thanks very much for researching the RC parish records and finding the baptism information, I would have responded earlier but I have just arrived in Brisbane after a 2000 km road trip from Cairns in north Queensland but I did manage to detour slightly to check out some family member grave sites including that of Adam Edward Young the son of Catherine Hayes whom had married Adam Young in 1862. Adam Edward Young was born on the Victorian gold fields at Smythesdale then later chased the gold at ChartersTowers in north Queensland and died at 37 in 1902. He was my Great Grand Father and I was pleased to see that his grave was in good condition.
The latest information that I was given on the Hayes has the children to John Hayes & Bridget Quigley as follows.
Mary Hayes B: 1825
Edward Hayes B: 1827 & came to Victoria Australia.
Thomas Hayes B: 1829 and went to the USA.
Matthew Hayes B: 1831 and came to Victoria Australia.
Michael Hayes B:1835 and came to Victoria Australia.
Bridget Hayes B: 1837
Catherine Hayes B: 1839 and came to Victoria Australia.
Judith Hayes B: 1841
Margaret Hayes B: 1844 and came to Victoria Australia.
It looks like it could be the the correct family because for Thomas, Matthew & Catherine the year births match my information but I didn't have dates, the 1844 baptism has Mary and my information is for a Margaret Hayes which is different.
Thanks again, it's a real help.
Regards
Gerry
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Peter,
Thanks for the information, the Irish migration to Australia was substantial, by 1891 Australia had a population of about 3 million and about 228,000 were Ireland born persons, also between 1791 and 1867 40,000 Irish convicts were transported to Australia, we have a great Irish heritage in Australia.
I understand that Thomas Hayes from John Hayes & Bridget Quigley children went the the US somewhere and 5 others children came to the Victorian Gold Fields including my GGGM Catherine Hayes, I have only recently started to research my Irish Roots and learning about townlands, civil parishes, RC parishes, counties, baronies etc, its part of the fun of genealogy, I like having an Irish family connection.
Regards
Gerry
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Boston Pilot Oct. 4, 1851
(Seeking) Mary O'Brien of Carrigtoher Ballywilliam Co. Tipperary. Sailed from Limerick in the Peranna for Quebec or New York. She is the daughter of John O'Brien and Mary Grace alias O'Brien. Any information will be thankfully received by her aunt Bridget Hayes West Rutland Vermont.
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St. Mary's Cemetery Fair Haven, Vermont
Cornelius Hayes b. Dec. 25, 1824 d. Dec. 4, 1885 ag.61
native of the parish of Ballywilliam Co. Tipperary.
Mary Toohey wife 1828-1903
Patrick son of Cornelius and Mary July4, 1861-June 4, 1865 ag. 3y 11 m.
Bridget Gorman Jan. 11 1805 - Jan. 11 1878 ag. 73
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stonepegger,
Thanks for the two posts.
It is highly likely that there is a connection between Cornelius Hayes and my Hayes family, they are from the same locality.
I'll see if I can find the baptism church for Cornelius Hayes in 1824, hence his parents.
The Thomas Hayes from my Hayes family was married and had a number of children when he migrated to the USA.
Gerry
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Hi Gerry,
I have just found your correspondence with anneclare regarding John Hayes & Bridget Quigley.
I am particularly interested in Matthew Hayes born 1831 as he is my Great Grandfather. I see that you state he emigrated to Victoria Australia. I would be grateful if you could provide me with any details e.g. date of emigration, port of departure and port of arrival. Also do you know if he was married and if so the name of his wife?
Many thanks.
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Bernie 46,
Nice to hear from you.
The Matthew Hayes that I have was born to John Hayes & Bridget Quigley and was baptised 29th April 1831 at Carrigatoher (Burgess & Youghal), he came to Victoria Australia probably around 1860 but I don't know the exact year as yet.
Matthew Hayes married Catherine Bourke on 20th February 1865 at Ballarat in Victoria and went on to have 10 children.
I haven't done a lot of research on Matthew Hayes as I have concentrated on Catherine Hayes my GGGM.
Regards
Gerry
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Hello Gerry,
Thank you so much for your prompt reply. I doubled checked the info I have and it appears unfortunately we are not related.
My Matthew Hayes married Hanora Carmody. I have just come back from a visit to Tipperary. I met with the Priest who covers the Carrigatoher area. The Priest found Matthew's parents to be John Hayes & Bridget Quigley and their 8 children. Their names -:
Thomas - 1829
Matthew - 1831
Hanora - 1833
Michael - 1835
Bridget - 1837
Catherine - 1839
Judith - 1841
Margaret - 1844
I have now found Matthew's wife Hanora who was shown as a widow and three of their children on the 1901 census living in Carrigatoher Tipperary.
I also found out while I was in Tipperary, within this area there were 2 families with the name of Hayes, that were unrelated.
It does seem to be very difficult to trace Irish ancestors. Thank you again for your prompt reply. Good Luck with your search.
Regards Bernie 46
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Hi Bernie,
Wow, how lucky to be able to catch up with the Priest and yes John & Bridget's children are from my family with Catherine being my GGGM. I have information that there could have been a Mary in 1825 and Edward in 1827 as well but not confirmed as yet.
Thanks also for the info that there were two Hayes families and not related, if I find anything on Matthew Hayes & Honora Carmody I send you the deatails.
Good luck also.
Gerry
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Hi Bernie,
I have just read your messages re the Hayes family of Carrigatoher and have to advise you that Matthew Hayes and Honora Carmody are my great grandparents although my list of their children differs to those given you by the priest. My records show Matthew as having been born 1839. Another child named Matthew was born 1837, but must have died. The father, Matthew. died in Carrigatoher 1864. My grandfather was also Matthew, born 1867. He arrived in Melbourne in 1889.
His sister, Mary, also came to Melbourne. There were other relatives here living in the Bendigo area, where there were also gold diggings I'm wondering if they could have been some of Gerry's family. Also I have Honora Carmody as having died in 1887 but may be this is another Honora. Regards Shibro
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Bernie,
My great great grandfather was Thomas Hayes (born 1829, son of John Hayes and Bridget Quigley who were married Feb. 1825). He had siblings Matthew (1831) and all of the other that you list (dates and names match). I am very excited to find another member of this family. Thomas married Catherine Hogan in 1859 in Burgess, Co. Tipperary. They had 10 children in Ireland between 1861 and 1879 and all of them including Thomas and Catherine came to Chicago about 1888. I am very interested in learning more about Matthew's family.
There was a story about some family in Australia, but I am not yet certain of the connections that have been suggested. I would like a paper trail. I plan to continue to look into it. Some information contained in these other posts was copied by others from my submissions on Ancestry, but I have no paper proof that connects some of these families to mine.
I had my research done in Tipperary years ago and am very confident in the accuracy of the findings. Yours match mine so I am certain we are connected. I have Thomas's family very well documented.
I would very much like to share more information with you and look forward to hearing from you.
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I am still interested in making contact with anyone related to the Hayes (or Hogan) family from Youghalarra parish in Tipperary, especially the civil parish of Burgesbeg or in Carrickatogher. Although many of the posts here are promising, I am still seeking someone that has the documents to prove a relationship. I have baptism records from my branch as well as some marriage records from the parish. My ancestor is John Hayes married to Bridget Quigley who had Thomas Hayes married to Catherine Hogan. I am especially looking for information on Thomas's siblings. Thomas immigrated to the US about 1888 with his wife and all of his children. But not his siblings as far as I can tell. The Australian posts offer some hope, however there are a few discrepancies that make me question a relationship. Since civil records didn't exist in this early period, has anyone else requested parish records that can verify your relationship to John Hayes/Bridget Quigley? I am particularly interested in exchanging information with Bernie as his list of family members from the priest matches mine from the parish records.
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Dear Jan007 Re your family connection, Australian Death Index shows: Edward Hayes, son of John Hayes and Bridget Quigley, died at Fitzroy,. Melbourne. 1902. Victorian registration no. 1590. Address Fitzroy could be St. Vincent's Hospital.
There is also a death recorded for Margaret Hayes, daughter of John & Bridget Hayes, 1907 at Kyabram, Victoria. Reg. no. 8883.
Hope this is some help.
shibro
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Unfortunately my Hayes family did not have an Edward as a son of John Hayes/Bridget Quigley. I am certain I have the baptism records of all of the children from my Hayes family group, and Edward is not one of them. It is disappointing that I can't seem to find any records of the siblings of my Thomas Hayes. The closest I have come is a previous post in this string from a man who had visited the parish in Ireland and confirmed that his Matthew Hayes was brother of my Thomas and son of my John Hayes/Bridget Quigley. For all I know the other siblings may not have even survived into adulthood. According to records I have seen there were only 6 Hayes families living in that area in 1851. It was one of the least common names in that very particular area at that time. You would think that would make them easier to track, but it doesn't. I will continue to look for connections.
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Dear Jan007, I'm sorry my information was no help..
I also read the comments of the chap who visited with the PP of Carrigatoher and was surprised to read the information given to him. It appears we share the same ancestors - Matthew Hayes/Honora Carmody. The Research Centre at Nenagh gave me the names of Matthew's parents as Matthew Hayes and Ellen Berkery, whereas the priest advised him Matthew's parents were John H and Bridget Quigley if I remember correctly.I contacted the PP for clarification and did not receive a reply.
I recall "cousins" visiting our house who came from the Bendigo area. I have found them on a tree in Ancestry and the father was named John Hayes but his parents were Matthew Hayes and Mary Hogan.I have yet to find out how they were connected to my grandfather. I have a copy of my grandfather's Marriage Certificate which states his parents as Matthew H and Honora Carmody.
Good luck shibro
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Thank you for indicating your sources. I received my information for the Nenegh center also. I generally trust them, however I did have less success with "facts" from the center in Limerick. They made an error which connected my Ahern family with a family in Australia. After a bit of correspondence between those descendents and me we both concluded that there was an error. It is possible that there is also an error in the Nenagh research. Is there any other source for the parish records aside from contacting the parish directly? I wonder if the Nenagh center would re-visit their work to check for an error, although mine was done 20 years ago. I may try to contact them regarding the family to see what their fee would be to do a bit more work.
Did you receive any baptism records from the center? If so, would you list the names of the godparents/sponsors in a reply? The surnames for sponsors of my Thomas and his siblings were Grady, Quigley, Lacy, Brian, Hayes, McGrath, Farrell, Kenna, and Hogan. Thomas's brother Matthew was sponsored by John Lacy and Mary Brian.
The surnames for the sponsors of the children of my Thomas were Hogan, Hayes, Flynn, Quinn, Quigley, Dwyer, McDonnell, Ryan. I also have Hogan ancestors from that exact area (Thomas's wife was Catherine Hogan). The surnames of people that were sponsors for Hogan children were Hogan, Hanly, Ryan, Ready, Whelan, Flynn,Walsh, Rowhan,Moran. Do any of these names match what you received?
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I should add that my Thomas's immediate family as researched by the Nenagh center was spot on. All of his children match exactly to other records I have found. The marriage for Thomas and his wife Catherine Hogan is also correct. The research results letter does not indicate any doubt about Thomas's parents being John Hayes/Bridget Quigley and considering that there are sponsors named Quigley for both Thomas's siblings as well as his children I believe in the connection. Thomas's sibling (including Matthew) were derived by finding records for children with the same parents in the parish register. A total of 8 children of John Hayes/Bridget Quigley were found between 1829 and 1844. They also provided a marriage date for John H./Bridget Q. as 7 Feb 1825. Do you have a marriage date for your Hayes/Bererky ancestors?
Are you aware that there is a Matthew Hayes on the Griffiths valuation in 1850 and also in the 1825 Tithe Applotment Books for that exact townland? What I do not find is any mention of the names Berkery or Carmody. More to follow up on.
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Jan007. Hello again.
The information I received from Nenagh is as follows: Matthew Hayes (Carrigatoher) married Ellen Berkery (Carrigatoher) 6/12/1822. Cannot find record of marriage. Nenagh advised this is as far as they can go.
Children: Brigid, 1829 (sponsors McGrath/Kelly); Mary 1831 (Flynn/Commons); Michael 1834 ( McGrath/Ready); Matthew 1837 (Denis Hogan/mgt Commons); Matthew 1839 (John & Peggy Hogan)
All baptisms took place at Youghalarra. I am presuming that Matthew 1837 died hence next child named Matthew. This is my ggrandfather. This is marked by Nenagh.
Matthew & Honora married at Youghalarra 16/2/1858. Their children: Mary 1860 (Thomas Hayes/Peggy Hayes); Patt 1862 (Cleary/Carmody); Ellen 1863 (Honora Farrell); +Matthew 1867 (Lacy/McDonnell) Michael 1869 (Tom Hayes/Fogarty);Thomas 1871 (Tom Hayes/Lacey);Margaret 1874 (Hayes/Hayes); Hanora 1877 (Patt Hayes/Ellen Hayes)
+My grandfather.
Parents of Honora Carmody were Denis (Coomroe) and Mary Cleary (Barhaha). Witnesses: Pat Carmody/WFD Hogan (?winifred)
Yesterday I searched for marriage records of Matthew H/Mary Hogan. No luck but I did find baptism details of their son John who was baptised at Burgess, Jan 1840. Sponsors were Rody Hogan and Onny Hayes.
Yes I have printed off Griffith's Valuation for Matthew Hayes. It indicates the area shown to me on the map at Nenagh Library but was it my Matthew? Of course, my father was also named Matthew!!
Wish he was here to explain all to me.
Cheers, shibro
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Based on the idea that your Hayes family came from Matthew Hayes and Ellen Berkery and mine from John Hayes and Bridget Quigley we would not be related ( as far as records go back to show). But the questions is about Matthew Hayes who married Hanora Carmody. There seem to be conflicting online claims as to who his parents were- Matthew and Ellen or John and Bridget. As you said, I wish they were her to explain it all.
If Matthew were the son of John, you would expect one of his children (probably the eldest son) to be named John. But none were. That would lead me to start to believe that Matthew was not John's son, but Matthew's. However, Matthew's age at marriage to Honora was very young for the time, only 19 if he were born in 1839 to Matthew and Ellen. The Matthew that was the son of John and Bridget was born 1830. If he married in 1858 the age would be more appropriate. Any thoughts?
What I do notice is a lot of common surnames names between your sponsors and mine. I'd say we have some sort of connection, maybe a generation back. Since the records don't go that far back, we may never know if my John and your Matthew may have been brothers.
But I'm still hoping to find a definitive answer about Matthew born 1831 in my family. If you are certain your younger Matthew was born 1839 then they are not the same person and I will have to continue to search.
Janet
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Hi Janet and Shibro,
I'm back on this thread, my Hayes/Quigley connection is through Catherine Hayes (1839) who married Adam Young at Smythesdale near Ballarat in Victoria in 1862 but sadly she died on 16th April 1870 at Smythesdale. In the Coronor's report it states that she was going to visit her mother that day an Cambrian Hill just a few miles away on the Bunninyong side of Ross Creek.
Catherine Hayes had 3 brothers and a sister come out to Victoria.
The information that I have is as follows.
Catherine Hayes married Adam Young in 1862 and had 3 children.
Matthew Hayes married Catherine Bourke in 1865 and had 10 chidren (that I can find)
Edward Hayes married Mary McGrath in 1856 and had 19 children (ditto)
Michael Hayes married Margaret McGrath and had 8 chidren. (ditto)
Margaret Hayes married Thomas Hayes in 1864 and had 10 children (ditto)
Searching around for burials I found that at the Stawell Cemetery in Victoria the burial for a Bridget Hayes born Ireland, 81 years buried 13th October 1877.
Also buried in the same grave were
Matthew Hayes, buried 26th April 1889, of Stawell, 54 years born in Ireland and two children Michael Hayes 11 months buried 31st May 1875 and Matthew Hayes, 12 months, buried 2nd September 1878. Both of these children's burials match the death registration years and place for two of Matthew Hayes' children.
So in the one grave there are 4 Hayes persons and it looks like the mother Brigdet Hayes, her son Matthew and 2 grandsons.
There also is a marriage document that I found for Bridget Quigley and John Hayes.
7th Feb 1825, Parish of YOUGHALARRA, Tipperary.
Witnesses, Anthony Dwyer and Patk Dwyer.
Gerry
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Hello Janet,
Re "my" Matthew, born 1839, who married Honora Carmody, their second daughter was named Ellen which makes me think she was named after her grandmother, Ellen Berkery.
According to my late mother, Granddad told her there was a "step" in the family but who knows if that was true or not. I mentioned this to Nenagh but they didn't come back with anything. I think it is time to contact them again.
Regards, Shirley
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Hi Gerry,
I'm still not certain that your Hayes family is from John Hayes/Bridget Quigley. Here is why. The research that I had conducted found no Edward Hayes as a child of theirs. He could have been missed as his birth year of 1827 would fit the family. But considering they found all of the others I'm inclined to think he was not their child. Another discrepancy is with your Matthew. You indicate his grave is marked that he was 54 when he died in 1889. He would have been born 1834-1835. My Matthew was born 1831. You don't indicate what happened to siblings Honora (1833), Bridget (1837) or Judith (1841). If the mother Bridget Quigley did emigrate with her family, I would have expected the others who were born in the years between to also be with them.
I have the same marriage record for John Hayes/Bridget Quigley as found by the Family History Research Service in Nenagh. They were the ones that provided the names and baptism dates for the 8 children of that marriage. All of the children from 1829-1844 share the same parents. As I was focusing on my direct ancestor, their son Thomas, they also located his marriage to Catherine Hogan in 1859 and their 10 children. Through records here in the US I have confirmed all of the children were correct as were Thomas's parents as John Hayes/Bridget Quigley.
Did you also use the Family History Research Service in Nenagh to find your records? I was pleased with their service and found what they provided to be accurate. However it is possible that they are connecting families that don't belong together. That happened to me in Limerick with another branch. We discovered the error after a few correspondences with potential "family".
If you have baptism records for your Edward, Matthew, Michael, Catherine or Margaret I'd like to compare their sponsors with mine. If you have birth years that would be helpful as well. Do you have anything in the way of official documents that link any of these children to parents John Hayes/Bridget Quigley? Also, did any of the children name their sons John? Particularly did Edward, Matthew or Michael name their first son John? That would have been the naming tradition. It was followed in my branch. The expectation would be that each son would name their first son after the paternal grandfather- in this case John Hayes. Although it's not a guarantee, it is a clue if they did.
Any thoughts?
Janet
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Shirley,
I agree with your idea about Ellen. There are no Ellens in my Hayes family at all. I find no "step" family in my John Hayes family. John and Bridget were the parents of all the children between 1829 and 1844.
I note that a Matthew Hayes was a sponsor for 3 of John's children- Honora in 1833, Michael in 1835 and Judith in 1841. Hes' the only man that sponsored more than 1 child. The only other Hayes sponsor was a woman- Onny ( possibly Honora?) who also sponsored Michael in 1835.
Maybe this Matthew was a brother of my John Hayes?
More research needed.
Janet
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Unfortunately I have not yet gotten a response from the Research Service in Nenagh asking for clarification of their previous findings. I did look into the online records they refer to on the web site. What I found was that there were in fact 2 Matthew Hayes baptized in Youghalarra parish- one born to John Hayes/Bridget Quigley (who were married 1825) in 1831 and one born to Matthew Hayes/Ellen Berkery (who were married 1822) in 1837 (the 1839 birth didn't come up in my search). Only 1 Matthew Hayes married in the Youghalarra parish and that was in 1858 to Hanoria Carmody. But which Matthew was it? Maybe a clue can be gleaned from Hanoria Carmody. If her parents were Denis Carmody/Mary Cleary (married 1822), she is one of 3 children of that couple that I found. She was eldest born 1831, Mary in 1836, and Denis in 1839.
Does it make sense that a woman born 1831 would marry a man born 1837? Possibly. She would have been 27 at marriage and 46 when her last child was born (1877 in Youghalrra parish). The names of the children of Matthew Hayes/Hanoria Carmody also give a clue- a girl named Ellen possibly after her grandmother (Ellen Berkery) and no boy named John which would have been a grandfather's name (John Hayes/Bridget Quigley). No Ellens in the Hayes/QUigley line at all where they are in the Hayes/Berkery line. And no Johns in the Hayes /Berkery line at all where they are in the Hayes/Quigley line.
The only hesitation I have is regarding Hanoria Carmody's birth in 1831. Perhaps the 1831 child died and another was named the same later that did not come up in my search. I was not successful using wildcards and the spellings varied so I may have missed some people (Hanoria, Hanora, Nora, Honora would all be separate searches). Also searching in the particular parish requires entering a first name and I had to guess at those possible children of Denis Carmody/Mary Cleary.
For now I believe that Matthew Hayes that married Hanoria Carmody in Youghalarra parish was the son of Matthew Hayes/Ellen Berkery. If I hear back from the research center I will update. And I'll keep this information in case something later links to it. That leaves me with no leads on any of the siblings of my Thomas Hayes. Maybe they all died young or never married.
Janet
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Hello Janet,
The Matthew Hayes/Ellen Berkery marriage is the family information supplied to me by the Research Centre, N enagh. The list of their children shows two Matthews, one born 1837, the second baptised 12 Mar 1839 . They have highlighted this one. I presume the first one died. The second one is the Matthew who married Honora Carmody. All baptism entries show her as "Onny". Actually, the marriage record names her as Judith Carmody. I mentioned this to Nenagh when I first received it and they replied there is no record of a Judith Carmody so we both presumed that the priest made a mistake.These two are my great-grandparents.
Re the Carmodys. I have information from Nenagh stating Denis Carmody married Mary Cleary. Their three children were Honora, 1831; Mary 1836;Denis 1839.
I have found one Denis Carmody from Limerick. I also found a Denis Carmody who migrated to the US. Denis C/Mary Cleary were married 17 Feb 1822. If Honora (1831) was their first child, there is a nine year gap between marriage and first born. Could there have been babies lost in this period?
My grandfather left Ireland in 1889. He married Ellen Keeffe from Galway whom he met on the ship coming out. Their four sons were Matthew, Thomas, John and Patrick.
I hope you are able to get some satisfaction from all your research,.
Regards, Shirley
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Just stumbled on to this chat site by doing a Hayes search, my gr grandfather was John C Hayes born in Bally Tipperary 1841 and emigrated to the US as a young child , he had an older Brother Cornelious and other siblings that also emigrated to the states, wonder if theres a connection, he lived in Illinois most of his life.
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Hello Shane,
There seems to be several Hayes families in Tipperary and I think that your ancestors are not connected to mine.
Good Luck with your research.
Bernie
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I have a family connection to John Hayes who migrated from Neagh to Victoria in 1854. Bendigo region. He was born around 1844 to Matthew Hayes and Mary Hogan.
All these details confirmed by records I've sited and obits.
Year of migration from death cert, can't find actual migration record or who he came out age 10 with?
Have tested also the Hayes yDNA so that might be of interest if you have any known Hayes males relatives.
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Well everyone I have some resolution. There is a paper trail and proof of some of these relationships. My Thomas Hayes (b 1829 to John Hayes and Bridget Quigley) is the sibling of Catherine Hayes wife of Adam Young. Bridget (the mother) did die in Australia so she also immigrated to there. I will still work on the Matthew line but am leaning toward the idea that Matthew who married Catherine Bourke was the son of John and Bridget. This is based partly on the fact that Matthew is buried in the same grave ad Bridget in Stawell. Also buried there are 2 of his children and the mother is identified as Catherine Bourke (thank you Gerry for this information).
Just to recap Thomas and his family who went to the USA . Catherine and at least her mother went to Australia. I believe I found her passenger list as well which says she is going to her brother in Ballarat so at least 1 brother was there too for sure.
Where does this leave things for the Matthew who married Honora Carmody? Based on trying to compile all of the information presented so far with what records I have seen (mostly the digital images from the parish records)here's my conclusion. Matthew Hayes married Hanora (written as Judith in the record book) in Feb 1858. He was born 1839 the son of Matthew Hayes and Ellen Berkery who were married 1821. He was the 2nd child they named Matthew.
Matthew and Hanora also had a son Matthew in 1867 that apparently left Ireland in 1889 and married a woman he met on the ship (see a previous post in this string for details from his family).
In looking at the parish registers from Youghalarra I find that John Hayes and Bridget had the greatest number of children with the surname Hayes from 1829-1860. That's followed by Matthew Hayes and Ellen who had 6 that I found. After 1860 only 2 families with the Hayes surname were prolific- Thomas (son of John) and his wife Catherine, and Matthew (son of Matthew) and his wife Honora. It's apparent that most of the other Hayes people had either not survived to adulthood or had left the area. I'm inclined to believe that Thomas and Matthew may well have been cousins. Perhaps their fathers (John and Matthew) were brothers.
I'd love to hear back from anyone on this. As time has gone by more and more information has become available. Anyone have anything new to add?