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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: ladyflippers on Friday 15 October 10 11:20 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
The place of birth for my mother is 2 Whitehall Cottages, Rathfarnham R. 13 in 1940 but I'm struggling to place this on a modern map ... or even an old map to be honest. I can't believe things have changed so much in such a short time, I must be missing something!
I've looked at http://www.osi.ie/ & Googlemaps but I wonder if there's a better place to look, any ideas?
Regards
Jen
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There's a Whitehall Road to the West of Rathfarnham - it might be considered as Templeogue or Kimmage rather than Rathfarnham, but could be included in the registrars district for Rathfarnham.
see : Rathfarnham village to Whitehall Rd (http://maps.google.ie/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Main+St&daddr=Whitehall+Road,+Ballyboden&geocode=FcVILQMdIRmg_w%3BFUVyLQMdNrGf_ykjvTKDgAtnSDFXiOK-VAxAFQ&hl=en&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=15&sll=53.299235,-6.279888&sspn=0.012208,0.044246&ie=UTF8&ll=53.303647,-6.283836&spn=0.024414,0.088491&z=14)
what does the R13. reference relate to - is this on a birth cert ?
Shane
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Thanks Shane, that might well be the place.
Yes R.13 is on the birth certificate as the last part of the address. Perhaps it's a sub-district of Rathfarnham?
EDIT: I've just looked again and it's possible that R.13 could be R.B ... does that make any more sense?
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there's another location that might fit better - a townland named Whitehall - see the OSI map link (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,715700,728290,6) (see the 25" or 6" maps)
The location is about where Nutgrove Shopping centre and the Fire station are located now. It would definitely be considered Rathfarnham.
Shane
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Brilliant thanks Shane, the second location seems more likely for some reason.
Makes sense that the reason it couldn't be found is because of the shopping centre is now there.
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In case it helps with the landmarks - opposite where Nutgrove is was the H.B. (Hughes Brothers) ice-cream factory. Not sure how long they were located there - but it was only knocked down and redeveloped in the last 10-15 years.
Shane
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There is a company office at 2 Whitehall Cottages (off Westminister Road) in Foxrock
There was also planning permission granted by South Dublin Co Co for an extension to a house at Whitehall Cottages, Dublin 12 in 1977. However I can find no record of this address now. There is a semi-circle of cottages on Whitehall Road in Terenure that could have been renamed. I will try and find out more if you need me to.
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I think Whitehall Road would be Dublin 12 (or maybe 6W?), most of Rathfarnham is Dublin 14.
Shane
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you are correct 6W is the current postal code but it falls into that no man's land of where is it! I would say it is Perrystown, residents say they are Terenure, others Templeogue or Walkinstown - It is right on the boundary of several areas. Some relatives I've come across from around here described themselves as Rathfarnham.
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Based on the OSI maps Whitehall Rd is in the townland of Perrystown - so that should be used for the official address (Land registry etc) - but I'm fussy... most people would not use the townland names in the city or suburbs!
I heard a recent discussion about not-well-known areas of Dublin - and Perrystown was one that came up. A couple of people mentioned that they just state Kimmage as more people know where that is.
This location is a problem .... two Whitehall addresses that could qualify - one named after an old estate/house (Perrystown) and the other after a townland. My feeling is the Nutgrove one fits better - more 'Rathfarmham' to me
Shane
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Thoms 1941 shows "Whitehall" in Rathfarnham, and Whitehall Road, Whitehall Gardens in Terenure.
No Whitehall Cottages.
eadaoin
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I wonder if they were trying to make their gaff sound cute rather than being accurate?
EDIT: Although the birth was in 1940 it wasn't registered until 1941, perhaps it was a new build in 1940/41? However if that was the case then it seems unlikely that it would be knocked down so soon afterwards (c1984) for the shopping center.
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I don't know when Whitehall House in Rathfarnham was demolished adn a quick search on-line hasn't proved helpful BUT if it was still standing in 1940 Whitehall Cottages may have been part of the complex of the house
Note to Shane re Perrystown
I agree with correct names for areas - I bought my first house in Rossmore, Templeogue. The Deeds stated it was in Co. Dublin, the surveyor stated it was in Dublin 12 and An Post stated it was in Dublin 6W. For the duration I lived in it my Bank used to write addressing letters to Dublin 6W for the mortgaged property at the same address Dublin 12 because the surveyor had told them it was in Dublin 12!! FOR TEN YEARS I TRIED TO TELL THEM IT WAS THE SAME HOUSE!! no wonder I moved!
Anyother strange one in the same area is TempleManor off St. James' Road - It is completely surrounded by Walkinstown, Dublin 12 but uses the postal address Terenure, Dublin 6W Need I say more!
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Ladyflippers
I looked at Thoms 1942 for Whitehall Cottages but there was no entry.
To digress although post codes came in during the early 1960s , this was not the first time for Dublin. From the late 1920s until the early 1940s ,coding was used at least for the central city area. A 1929 advert. I have here shows College Green as being C.1. . I cannot recall having seen coding used for the suburbs.
Regards Quaxer
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I checked with my mum to see if she remembered the area around Nutgrove in the 1940s (her family lived nearby in Churchtown) and she has no specific memory of cottages nearby but does remember people bringing churns of milk to Hughes brothers dairy. Will check with my uncle, when we see him next, as he may be more familiar with the area.
Shane
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Hi
Whitehall Road in Churchtown had a very large house down at the end closest to Nutgrove Shopping Centre.
On the left hand side, leaving Nutgrove, there are several bungalows, running along the left hand side of the road until it meets with Landscape. Half way along this road is the old Bottle Tower, a local landmark.
On the right hand side of Whitehall Road there are firstly, private bungalows and then what I believe are a line Council built bungalows. These were referred to as "the cottages" - and very pretty they are too, with massive gardens.
Cheers
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Brilliant, thanks for getting to the bottom of my mysstery LH.
Consider yourself owed a beer ;D
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I have been researching the Vaughans and McTagues on behalf of a grandson of Mary anne (through your aunt Nora) and have a significant amount of information. Just not sure how to go about making contact and what the rules are on this site.
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For older details you can post relevant replies on this thread if you like, for more recent details (possible living people, email addresses etc), you can send a private message to people by clicking on the small green ((http://www.rootschat.com/forum/Themes/history/images/im_on.gif)) scroll under their name, and include additional details in these such as your email address so you can exchange certs, photos etc.
Ask away if you have any further questions.
Dublin Moderator
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Thank you, wasnt sure how to sen the private message
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Just a quick suggestion....is this area not Churchtown??
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Just a quick suggestion....is this area not Churchtown??
The townland of Whitehall is where part of Nutgrove S.C. is now and Hughes brothers were located and it's just east of the townland of Rathfarnham Demesne and to the west of the townlands of Churchtown Upper and Lower... so probably a bit borderline as to whether it's Churchtown or Rathfarnham these days. See OSI Map - Whitehall townland (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,715671,728279,5,7) (select the historic 6" option to see the clearest view of the townlands)
Nutgrove Shopping Centre has Rathfarnham, Dublin 14 in it's address and the RC church at the end of the Road (Church of the Annunciation) is Rathfarnham Parish Church.
Shane
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The church at the opposite end of Nutgrove avenue is The Good Shepherd which is Churchtown and the school across the road from the old HB site is the Good Shepherd NS Churchtown, That cross roads seems to be the boundary with Nutgrove SC abd Loreto Pak as Rathfarnham and the old HB site and the school as Churchtown, there is no 'offical' border though its a confusing one.
(I am from Churchtown, lived there all my live and I dont even know)
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comparing the modern map against the 1st Edition OSI map I would say that Nutgrove S.C. was near the western edge of the townland of Whitehall, and the eastern edge of the townland would be close to the Good Shepherd.
Land records (deeds mortgages etc) still use the original townland as part of the references, but they are not usually well known in urban areas.
Shane
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May not be relevant, but Whitehall cottages in Perrystown was renamed Avondale terrace.