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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: Wiggy on Friday 15 October 10 10:35 BST (UK)
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Hello,
Please may I beg some more help?
I am looking for a little more information about the Hugh family in Cornwall. When I type in Hugh there aren't many hits - Hughes has many many - I have the name as Hugh, but have searched under Hughes as well. Have been trying the Cornish OPCs - to no avail so far.
John Hugh b 1796 - Penzance/Madron I think. d Oct 1865
m 21 Feb 1821 Madron
Elizabeth Blee 1794 Cornwall (Parents were given to me as Edward Blee b 1750 and Mary Eade . . . .)
I have found John with three children Mary Jane, William and Elizabeth in 1841 in Penzance. No Elizabeth so I guess she'd died by then -
I can't find Elizabeth's death though - been looking but . . . Please would someone look for me in the OPR or OPC or wherever.
In 1851 John appears with Amelia and another child from this marriage I presume - John. Amelia is about 15 years younger than John. Their son John is 3 in 1851 - I don't know if there'd been any other children born and died before then.
Please may I have some help with their marriage- can't find that yet either - still looking!
I have found son, William, in 1851 and his wife Mary Bryant and several children - William is a lath maker/worker.
I haven't yet found his marriage - but it must have been soon after 1841 - or in 1841 - if they were being good and waiting for marriage to have children! ;) First child born about 1842/3 named - John of course!!
John and Elizabeth's two daughters emigrated in 1849 - so not looking for them - I know what they were doing! ;D ;D they left on the ship 'Hope' in February 1849 and arrived in Victoria in July that year - they were married within months of arrival - apparently they were housemaids - per ships list.
thanks in hope!!
Wiggy :)
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Hi Wiggy,
Elizabeth HUGH was buried Penzance 14 Oct 1835. She was aged 37 of Penzance.
Cheers Kris :)
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John HUGH was baptised 31 Jan 1796 Madron father John
John HUGH = Jane JAMES 22 Dec 1792 Penzance
Elizabth BLEE was baptised 25 May 1794 Germoe parents Edward and Mary
Edward BREE = Mary EADE 11 Mar 1781 Breage
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi Kris,
- you've come to the rescue once again!! thanks for that information - I am wondering about the Elizabeth Hugh death though
If she was born 1794 - that would make her 41 in 1835 - reckon someone just didn't know how old she was - or is it a different E Hugh??
Please - do you have the reference numbers for that entry - I will try for the certificate/record - John was still alive so you'd think he'd have known her age!!
Would you happen to know which particular authority I should phone/email for the certificate - (I'm getting all enthusiastic about phoning UK now that I have my 490 remaining cheap minutes!!! ;D)
Thanks Kris!
Wiggy :)
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Hi Wiggy,
These records are pre civil registration so there are no certificates to order. You could order copies of the entries from the parsih recgisters. The burial may or may not list wife of or a residence. It would pay to order the baptisms as well (The residence may be the same as listed at the baptisms) May also compare with 1841 address
http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=14713
William 3 Jun 1821 Penzance
Mary Jane 23 Mar 1823 Penzance
Elizabeth 3 Oct 1828 Penzance
and John 5 Nov 1848 St Marys Penzance To John and Amelia
Cheers Kris :)
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Thanks Kris,
Was the beginning of civil registration 1837??
I have a record for Elizabeth Hugh, birth, 1828, but it might have been filled in by a clerk from the Penzance records office I think - onto a modern form. Does that sound right. It gives the parents' names and father's occupation - not mother's maiden name. Death might be the same - i have a death cert. from 1877 but that is just a one line entry which may also have been written by a transcriber
Yes, those two baptisms are two of her three children - and Elizabeth was the third in 1828.
thanks for the link - I went to the Cornwall names link yesterday but had no joy at all - think I was doing something wrong!
Wiggy :)
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Looks like John HUGH possibly = Amelia MATHEWS Dec 1/4 1846 Penzance 9 303
William HUGH = Mary Bryant NEWTON Dec 1/4 1841 Penzance 9 248
I found Elizabeth too and added it. Sorry to confuse. Yes civil registration began in July 1837
Cheers Kris :)
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The baptism forms came out in 1813. Prior to that baptsims were just one line across the page. Does it have a residence listed? Baptism records do not generally provide a maiden name (although some non conformist records will) The burial record will be a form similar to the one you have. It may say wife of - it may not. It may have an address - it may not. It will not provide a maiden name. Even UK death certs do not provide this information.
Cheers Kris :)
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More gratitude coming your way Kris - where do you get all this info - why can't I find it??? (and don't say because I'm thick!!) ;D ;D ;)
An address was given in 1852 on death cert. - but different family - just using it as an example. also, age, wife of, cause of death, informant - but it was quite a while later when they'd got their acts together!!
Wiggy :)
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The John HUGH who married Jane JAMES - he was born in 1767 in Cornwall and his father was - - John!! He married Ursula - but I don't have her surname.
However I'll ask for:
1. John and Jane JAMES marriage record - with any luck it might have Ursula's maiden name on it - you never know your luck in the big wide world.
2 Edward BLEE and Jemimah RIPPER
3. Edward Bl(r)ee and Mary EADE marriage records -
4. Elizabeth HUGH death record
5. John HUGH death record
6. John HUGH 3rd's baptism.
I already have Elizabeth and John's marriage, and Elizabeth HUGH's birth - it doesn't give too much info so won't go for Mary Jane or William.
Hope Ive got everything covered - may as well get as many as possible with the same freight/handling charge for 10 items
Wiggy :-\ :)
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Hi Wiggy,
Ursula' name will not be on John and Jane's marriage record. Even if she was a witness her name will be HUGH.
The marriage forms arrive in 1754 so there is not likely anything further in this entry.
John HUGH of Sancreed = Ursula HUMPHREY 29 Sep 1749 Sennen
same witth Edward BREE and Jemimah RIPPER 25 Dec 1740
Cheers Kris :)
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You're brilliant that's what! Thanks Kris! ;D
Are you saying don't bother with those two marriage records then?? Nothing new to learn from them - I am happy to save a bit if that is the case!!
Cheers indeed!!
Wiggy ;)
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Hi Wiggy,
The main thing we hope for with marriage records is that the witness names may help us, and the joy in seeing a forebears signature if they could write. With those early records it is just an entry in the register. You may still like printouts for your own records but if hoping you will get a little extra you need those entries using the forms, Those are - marriages after 1754, baptisms and burials after 1813. Baptisms you get fathers occupation and you may get an address, burials you may get an address, a wife or child may be listed as wife/son/daughter of ..... Occasionally cause of death is listed. (There may be nothing more than you already have) The information is very limited but until you see the entry you just don't know, what may be in it. In saying that even before the forms there may just be something extra in that one line across the page. (I have seen them)
The other option is to order the parish records in to your local LDS family history library. They will get the fiche in keep it about a month to allow plenty of time for you to view the records. This is very good when hunting one parish, the fees involved are modest but you have a few parishes here so probably not viable.
Cheers Kris :)
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Thanks for the extra info Kris. I didn't realize the local LDS library would order the record copies. that is interesting - must keep that in mind! I have never visited them - have been put off a bit by finding some very odd records which just don't add up - on the other hand they are a very good starting point very often.
Wiggy :)
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hello Wiggy Hobbes You have some records that match mine. I googled names from my family tree and your data came up. You are following a John Hugh and daughters who came to Australia. I am following back my William Hughes, of London, born Penzance Cornwall, as was his son Robert. I know this from the family story, so have been trying to locate them. I also know that there was a Rhoda in the family, again the family story.
William married to Rhoda Watson, a widow in 1859. In 1861 Census in London he is William Hughes, has a son Robert Hughes with him, and she has some (of her?) children under the name Watson and Madison. The 1851 Census for the only William Hugh born in Penzance is for one married to a Mary Bryant Hugh with children John, William, Elizabeth, and Robert Gendell Hugh, all born Penzance. This must be my Robert Hughes, I do not have him with this middle name anywhere else to confirm it is him. I can only go on the birth place and he is the only one for that. I see on your posts you have linked these two families together despite the difference in spelling of the surname. I had come to this conclusion also. I hope it is correct. I have also used the occupations from Census and bdm as lath render, joiner and carpenter to say that William Hugh/Hughes is the same person. I am please (excited) to see you have generations further back.
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Hi Rigmac, and Welcome to Rootschat
- just the best site for finding things with lots of helpful people around to assist. I hope you have lots of success with your hunting.
It is so long since I've been working on this family I had to go back and look again. Don't think I have travelled further down the William Hugh road though - He was a side issue to my primary interests who are the sisters who migrated. ;D I've found out lots of interesting information about them - but all here in Australia! I did find that William married again after Amelia's death - to Rhoda - I didn't find any children for that marriage though. That's when I returned to my main road!
Have you found that the ancestors for William are correct - there is some dissension amongst others of my extended related family about just which of several Elizabeth Blees is the contender - there are several! I am fairly happy with what is showing on this thread, but . . . . just letting you know there are others in contention - Germoe and Breage are quite close to Madron and Penzance - that's where others come from.
Wiggy
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Dear Wiggy Nice to hear from you. I did realize it was a couple of years back, and see all the families you are researching, so knew you had moved on. I too did many others trees before finally getting back to my own. Thanks for your info on your old posts anyway. Thing is to research it further to see if it is the correct connection.
I think it is John Hugh who married Amelia. William married first Mary Bryant Newton. In 1851 Census they have 5 children all under 10 and born in Penzance. By 1861 Census there is only father William and son Robert - new wife Rhoda , no Mary wife or other four children. What happened to them? Did they all die? Illness? I read some old newspapers online from that era and see there are a lot of house fires, maybe there was a catastrophe for this family, leaving only the father and son. My line is actually down through William and son Robert from the first marriage. Death certs of Mary Bryant and those children may provde some clues.
I will apply for some more old certs, but it is difficult because of the name change to Hughes, of which there are so many Williams, and some Rhoda's as well. I was interested to see you are in Australia as am I.
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correct John married Amelia - second wife. Sorry for my confused answer!
How far back did Robert or whoever venture to this fair land - I wonder if he was following his Aunts?? Nice to know someone when travelling this far, probably. I admire the spirit of those who left all knowing they'd not get back in all likelihood. I'm pretty sure Mary Jane and Elizabeth were on a 'bride ship'!
As you see by Kris's replies, sometimes those way back records don't give away much information.
Raining in your part of Aus?? Coming down steadily but gently here - Please, no faster - this is nice and has time to soak in.
Wiggy
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Raining? No, it's your turn now, we had plenty a few weeks back. Hot humid and sunny here.
I have heard about those bride ships. In those old Cornish newspapers i was reading about the immigrant ships and how it was organised back there, and the categories of people they were looking for - I think some people turned themselves into the correct categories just to get away and have a new start, it was all a bit of an adventure back then. Also published were glowing reports of men who had got ahead and had their own land and homes, something difficult to achieve for some back home.
Robert Hugh/Hughes stayed in London, became a locksmith, married Sarah Margaret Brown 26 March 1870, had Robert William Hughes b 7 Dec 1870 (my gfather) and two daughters, Sarah A. b 1877 and Lil(l)y b 1877, am researching these girls at present,although not a priority.
Robt Wm Hughes marr Blanche Mary Cornford 29 May 1897 in London, had 6 children, of which the only son died at 9 months, one of the twins died at 3 and half. My mother was the youngest child in the family. She is the one who had the spirit, lost her first husband in artillery serving on defending London in the Blitz, then joined up herself to WRAF, served, married my father (RAAF/RAF) there and came out just after WW11, and actually she never saw any of her family in England again. Have been myself to UK and lived there lots, but never been to Cornwall so plan to do that in May this year.
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Oooh you shouldn't have said that - I may send you with a heap of look-ups - but as you will be looking up one of the families anyhow that's OK ;) ;) :D :D
If you find anything relevant to us both please take lots of photos and send them on - I'll give you my email address when you come home if you have anything worth sending!!! :) You might find people living in the very same houses - unlikely - but you never know!!! don't forget to go to Port Isaac while you are there - with all the other tourists - Doc Martin country!!
Now that you have made three posts we can continue this chit chat type talk off air by PM - that little green scroll under my name and yours - click on that if you wish to send a personal message which isn't to do with the thread. You probably know that - but in case you don't . . . . . ;)
Wiggy