RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Annie65115 on Thursday 14 October 10 14:12 BST (UK)
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I'm not asking anyone to do any work for me, just see if people feel it would be worth while looking harder at records if they were in this position (and I'm sure many of you have been!)
One line of my tree is the BALE family from a village in Leicestershire.
Now I have started to look at PRs and to my dismay cannot sort out family lines at all. Bale, Ball, Bull, Beale, Bell, Beal, Bail - I can't tell if these were misspellings over the years or different families altogether. Therefore I really can't be sure who was whose kinsfolk. (I'm going back pre-BMD here so PRs are my only hope!)
I suspect I could drive myself mad over this puzzle if I let myself. Is it worth it? Do folks think I'd be likely to disentangle the info if I spend long enough on it?
I've been spoiled so far - v few of my names are easily confused with those of their neighbours - so haven't been in this situation before!
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It really depends on how interested you are.
I have some lines where I did spend time trying to figure them out (with varying degrees of success) and others where I decided I wasn't interested enough at that time and that I may go back to them later on.
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I have been in a similar position with Matthews, Mathews, Mathew and Mathewe. My method of sorting them out was to write them all out on a few pieces of A3 with dates and then try and link them up, to include them or discount them. You could also look for patterns, did they name their children after themselves and / or their parents / grandparents etc
It depends how much work you want to put in. You could also possibly cross check with directories, wills etc
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Frustrating isn't It? I have the same problem with Leigh - Lee, Legh, Lea ::) As mentioned in a previous reply I made a list of all names and dates and put them away until I felt sufficiently motivated to have a 'stab' at them. I've not yet sorted out whose who but I have made some small progress so stick at it and give it some time now and again and see how far you get.
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Only YOU can decide whether its worth the bother.
FWIW I have two families in a tiny Warks village, parents Richard & Hannah, that I'm trying toQ disentangle. If the vicar had put both Hannahs' maiden names it would have made life simpler.
Similarly, trying to find my gt x 3 Norfolk grandmother, surname Seals. There are a few Seals in the register but none around the right time frame to be immediate family. But there are also Scarls, Searles, Sales etc. I've just recorded all the instances and drawn trees where I can for the separate families in the hope that further info may help me include or eliminate them.
Quite often, even if the surname is spelt consistently, you find yourself faced with several John Massinghams who marry Marys and can't sort out which is whom!
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I have similar problems with my Sedgwicks, and was rather surprised to find that they were originally Sidgwicks, and prior to that Siggiswykes, so you can imagine the number of combinations you can get out of that lot. For quite some years the family, for no accountable reason that I can find, was known as Sigsworth, before reverting to Sidgwick again. All very frustrating, but quite fascinating!
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Of course it's worth the bother ......... the thrill of the chase! ......... we've all been there (and still are).
PR's are notorious for mistranscriptions and it is important to bear in mind that there existed fierce opposition to the education of the masses even until the early to mid 1800's and people could often not spell their names resulting in number of variations that are recorded.
I instance one IGI record that I made years ago where a family who were in Holborn in thr 1820's had a name that was spelt reasonably close to my own and they had eight children four of whom had identical surnames and the other four each had differing (but similar) surnames.
I put this information on the 'back burner' for several years until my family tree pattern became more clear and then took a look at the St Andrew's Holborn parish records which were in relatively poor condition but clear enough to see the different spellings and I subsequently 'claimed' this family from 1841 onward.
I refer you to the following which covers the vicious attitude of the better off toward the poor.
Gillard D (2007) Education in England: a brief history www.educationengland.org.uk/history
Joe
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This thread reminds me of my own asking about proof ~ 'The burden of Proof':
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,488422.msg3469127.html#msg3469127
Sometimes it seems impossible to find out the truth, but one can never tell when some useful information will be discovered, so, as with the others, above, I think that it is worth keeping a note of the possible relatives, making mini-trees for them where possible, and seeing if anything fits ~ not necessarily now, but possibly in the future :)
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HI! Oh, yes! It's definitely worth the bother! If I hadn't tried to sort out some of the variant spellings in my lines I would have missed entirely the fact that I have several instances of cousins marrying cousins. ;D Pat
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I've had a few experiences of this over the years and my way of dealing with it is to sling everything I've got onto spreadsheets. One each for baptisms, marriages and burials. Then I sort by date, by name, by parents/spouse - any which way that might be useful.
Then I attack it with a few highlighter pens and often a lot can be eliminated leaving the choice much smaller.
Very good for a rainy winter afternoon ;D
Christine
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search
put just
no christian name just all surnames at the same time
Bale, Ball, Bull, Beale, Bell ,Beal, Bail.
in surname search
with uk and leics
and keep narrowing down your search
sylvia
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I've had a few experiences of this over the years and my way of dealing with it is to sling everything I've got onto spreadsheets. One each for baptisms, marriages and burials. Then I sort by date, by name, by parents/spouse - any which way that might be useful.
Then I attack it with a few highlighter pens and often a lot can be eliminated leaving the choice much smaller.
Very good for a rainy winter afternoon ;D
Christine
Yes Christine ..... I have done the 'spreadsheet trick' just have you have using separate sheets for births marriages a burials together with a 'miscellaneous' sheet for any instance where the name or variant turns up and it has been a wonderful help ....... much better than using your memory.
The very important thing is not to discard anything
Joe
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Don't foreget the importance of Wills, even people of very modes means often left a will, these can be a great help in distinguishing between families, I have solved many such problems this way.
Jebber
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people could often not spell their names resulting in number of variations that are recorded.
Isn't it more the case that there was no right or wrong spelling until relatively recent times? People just wrote names down as they sounded, and as long as the people around at the time knew who was meant, no one thought any more of it.
It was probably not until the late 19th/early 20th century that spelling really became standardised. Even in the first decade of the 20thc, my grandfather and his siblings were variously registered as Davis and Davies, and while all the rest of them went with Davis, one of his brothers insisted on spelling his name Davies and passed that down. ::)
As for the tangles - I agree with those who are saying don't give up! Write it all down and keep it to one side somewhere, as you never know when something will turn up to confirm or eliminate something. If and when something does, you'd be kicking yourself if you hadn't kept notes of all the candidates.
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people could often not spell their names resulting in number of variations that are recorded.
Isn't it more the case that there was no right or wrong spelling until relatively recent times? People just wrote names down as they sounded, and as long as the people around at the time knew who was meant, no one thought any more of it.
It was probably not until the late 19th/early 20th century that spelling really became standardised. Even in the first decade of the 20thc, my grandfather and his siblings were variously registered as Davis and Davies, and while all the rest of them went with Davis, one of his brothers insisted on spelling his name Davies and passed that down. ::)
As for the tangles - I agree with those who are saying don't give up! Write it all down and keep it to one side somewhere, as you never know when something will turn up to confirm or eliminate something. If and when something does, you'd be kicking yourself if you hadn't kept notes of all the candidates.
I totally agree with your slant on the reasons regarding spelling it adds to my own views appertaining to the repression of education for the poorer classes.
Even the clergy had limited but somewhat better education and they wrote down (recorded) what they thought they heard at events from people with no education at all who may have had speech impediments and the recorder may well have had hearing defects,not interested (other than the money) or had been at the altar wine or any or all of the above.
We are fortunate indeed to have what information is available to us today from whatever source .... it should be carefully noted even if it remotely looks as though it might not fit your needs remembering that the person(s) who hand wrote the records did not have the high degree of free education that we have available to us today so that perhaps in time it may well fill a slot in your family tree.
Joe
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Don't foreget the importance of Wills, even people of very modes means often left a will, these can be a great help in distinguishing between families, I have solved many such problems this way.
Jebber
jebber of course you are correct .......... wills are very important and another of my pet likes is the importance of recording Marriage Witnesses.
The late Ted Wildy .... God Bless him had the brilliant idea of instituting a Marriage Witness Index a sample of which can be found here;
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausvic/mwi.htm
Joe
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Regarding the spelling of surnames over the centuries
If it looks Rite and sounds Write it either is Wright, or could be Right.
Bill
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Don't foreget the importance of Wills, even people of very modes means often left a will, these can be a great help in distinguishing between families, I have solved many such problems this way.
Jebber
jebber of course you are correct .......... wills are very important and another of my pet likes is the importance of recording Marriage Witnesses.
The late Ted Wildy .... God Bless him had the brilliant idea of instituting a Marriage Witness Index a sample of which can be found here;
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausvic/mwi.htm
Joe
Useful, but quite a few marriages that I've come across in my family tree had 'professional witnesses' - i.e. people who would turn up at weddings and volunteer to be witnesses for the price of a mug of ale. I suppose an index could identify these people, and save the research time that I've spent researching complete strangers ! ::) :)
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When I find the same witness turning up at marriages, I just put their name into the next census following the marriage and it usually turns out that the witness was the Parish Clerk.
Don't ever give up searching though, you may get a clue, from someone else. I had an instance where a young girl was listed as a visitor with my 2 x g.grandparents on a census and I couldn't work out whether she was related or not. I didn't think it was important enough to pursue, but then later I was contacted, via GenesR, by someone who thought my 2 x g.grandparents might be ancestors of him too. He had the young girl in his tree and, of course, if I'd bothered to research her, I would have found out that she was the daughter of one of my 2 x g.grandparent's granddaughter and her husband.