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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: johnP-bedford on Sunday 10 October 10 11:20 BST (UK)
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Hello;
What's the time limit between reading the last of 3 banns and then getting married ?. I have banns dated 29/9/1805 & the marriage taking place 20/11/1806 - perhaps that's far too long; but what if that's been mis-transcribed and banns are in fact 29/9/1806
regards John
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I think it very likely that the year has been mistranscribed. I don't know what the time limit is though, just that the banns have to be read 3 times beforehand. Which parish are we talking about and were bride and groom both living in it at the time of the marriage?
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I think it was 3 months.
Did the banns and the marriage take place at the same church?
I have instances where banns were read in one church and the marriage took place in another. Probably banns read in both parishes if the couple were both from different parishes.
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Current CofE website states that
You must have your banns read out in church for three Sundays during the three months before the wedding. This is often done over three consecutive Sundays but does not have to be.
My understanding is that the banns have to be read in all parishes involved, so could be 3 if bride & groom live in different parishes and get married in a 3rd
I don't think things have changed much for a long time
Linda
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Hello; Thanks for the replies.
The Banns I found were in Bedford St Pauls while wedding took place in Biddenham, about 1 mile out of town. I expect I could take a look at the Biddenham banns to see if they tally. It's odd that the banns says the man is a widower while the marriage does not, although it does not say he's a bachelor either.
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1823 Marriage Act 4 Geo. 4, c.76. s.9.
Whenever a marriage shall not be had within three months after the complete publication of banns, no minister shall proceed to the solemnization of the same until the banns shall have been re-published on three several Sundays, in the form and manner prescribed by the Act regulating banns, unless by licence duly obtained.
It may be presumed that calendar months are meant.
Stan
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It could be they had banns called in that parish but didn't marry in the 3 month period, maybe they never got round to it and had to renew the banns in 1806.
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I think it could depend on the flexibility of the individual clergyman. My 3x great grandparents John Bushell and Hannah Rudd had their banns called in July in Hockering, Norfolk, but didn't marry for 2 years, 7 months before the birth of their second child (assuming the first child was John's - she was born 4 months BEFORE the banns).
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I was in Hockering yesterday. We drove through on the way to Sandringham.
I have a couple who wed in 1832 in Hackney after banns but had their banns called in 1830 in Whitechapel.
I have a widower and a widow who had banns called in 1834 but I cannot find a marriage yet. I do know of people who have also had experiences with this.
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Just because Banns had been called does not mean a marriage had taken place, and banns books have not always survived, so there could be no records of subsequent banns being called.
Stan
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Current CofE website states that
My understanding is that the banns have to be read in all parishes involved, so could be 3 if bride & groom live in different parishes and get married in a 3rd
Linda
That is not legally possible, banns can only be called in two parishes, that of the bride and groom, where they reside, or claim to reside, and one of which must be the one where the marriage is to take place . The only way a marriage can take place in another parish is by licence.
Stan
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William Partridge, bachelor married Elizabeth Drewitt at Bedford St Pauls on 16/6/1806.
William Partridge of St Pauls Bedford married Elizabeth Makeham of Biddenham at Biddenham on 20/11/1806
In 1841 William & Elizabeth Partridge both born 1786 are in Buckingham, both born not in Bucks. He is a bookbinder by trade. He does 1845 & she dies in Aug 1851 in Texas - according to husband William's gravestone in Buckingham churchyard.
If it's the same William then his banns in Sept 1805 Elizabeth Makeham are suspect. If I could find a burial of Elizabeth, wife of William, in Bedford in 1806 that would decide it but I cannot find one.
In the PR transcriptions done for Bedfordshire parishes Banns are not included if both parties reside in the parish.
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Current CofE website states that
My understanding is that the banns have to be read in all parishes involved, so could be 3 if bride & groom live in different parishes and get married in a 3rd
Linda
That is not legally possible, banns can only be called in two parishes, that of the bride and groom, where they reside, or claim to reside, and one of which must be the one where the marriage is to take place . The only way a marriage can take place in another parish is by licence.
Stan
Thanks Stan - wrong again!
Linda
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The banns were read for my relative Emily Skelcey in Cubbington church (found by Carol02), but her marriage to Reginald Clarence Evens (of Colchester) has never been found - though it must have happened, they had four children.
Of couse, it might simply be one of those missing records, but since he was a soldier and she was a nurse, I've often wondered if they married in France just after the Armistice - and if so, if there's any way of finding out?
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The fact that they had 4 children doesn't mean they had to be married!
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... Emily Skelcey ...
I can only find one birth-
Births Sep 1885
SKELCEY Emily Elizabeth Warwick 6d 594
and a marriage-
Marriages Dec 1909
ROSE James Richard Warwick 6d 1135
SKELCEY Emily Elizabeth Warwick 6d 1135
Does the age seem about right?
Perhaps their last child was 1914 in Coventry ... did he die in the war?
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Well, they might not have been, but why read the banns, call it off, then have the children? (Evens with Skelsey mothers).
Geoff, that's a different one. The one I'm talking about was an S speller, I forgot, born 1895. There are four Evens-Skelsey births, one in Warwick, three in the Portsmouth area. It does get confusing. I actually met Jim Rose when I was young so I'm pretty clear which Emily is which.
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Well, it's nice to be proved right, even after two years, so long as you try not to be smug about it.
Reginald C Evens and Emily Skelsey (see my first post on the thread) married at (or registered at) the British Consulate in Etaples, Northern France, according to Service records on FindMyPast (now available in Lancs libraries). Both surnames are very rare.
Date range is given only as 1914-25, but based on the info given in earlier posts, the banns dates in Cubbington and the fact that their first known child was born in 1921, I'm putting 1919.
I say first known child - they might have had an earlier one in France. Any way of finding out? Also, would that marriage be in the actual Consulate, or somewhere else and merely registered there? Bit of a shortage of Protestant churches in rural France. Emily's family were Anglican, and anti-Catholic prejudice was stronger then.
(We stayed in Etaples briefly back in 1999. I don't think it has a Consulate nowadays.)
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Looks like I found this topic rather late. I'm Emily and Reginald's great granddaughter, and I've been working on some family history with my Grandad, their son, so we can confirm those details. He says his parents did meet during the war and got married in France.
In the family bible it says:
"Reginald Clarence Evens married Florence Emily Skelsey 5th April 1919"
It also has Emily's death as May 1948.
Then there follows the details of their 4 children, which you have already found :) I asked my Grandad about it saying "Florence" - apparently "Flo" was his dad's nickname for his mum (presumably because of how they met in the war). He thinks that his grandad (Philip) started writing the details before being corrected that her name wasn't really Florence.
We also found a certificate recognising Emily's "gallant and distinguished services in the Field", dated 1st July 1919.
Hope that helps confirm some details. I'd be interested in whether you have any further details about Emily's family, as my grandad didn't know a lot about them.
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Good to hear from you - we are related - fourth cousins once removed I think (as provable as anything can be when the connection is before 1837 but the surnames are rare).
I was sure Emily was a nurse, the more so when I found that the wedding was under the auspices of the Etaples consulate. Banns in Cubbington and probably in Essex so presumably an Anglican service - whether at some Protestant church or conducted by a chaplain at the consulate I don't know. Interesting that Emily got called "Flo" - I wonder if many nurses got that moniker?
I know nothing of the Evens, but Emily was one of two surviving daughters of Joseph Skelcey, a carter, and Lydia Cramp Verney of Harbury of whom I know little more - they married there in 1890. He was one of the many children of William Enoch Skelcey and Hannah Draper of Cubbington. I am descended from William's brother George and Hannah's sister Ann so it's a double relationship. This gives you a few thousand Skelcey (spelling variable) and Draper relatives in Cubbington and around - yes they were fertile!
I've been in touch with quite a few other descendants, sadly not all still with us. Your nearest ones would be the Pettiphers, descended from Joseph and Lydia's other daughter, also Lydia. I was in touch with one of them once, but it was a long time ago. I'll try to find the person concerned.
I would be very interested to see a scan of Emily's certificate for gallantry. I can give you an email address via PM if you're willing.
All best, Chris
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Current CofE website states that
My understanding is that the banns have to be read in all parishes involved, so could be 3 if bride & groom live in different parishes and get married in a 3rd
Linda
That is not legally possible, banns can only be called in two parishes, that of the bride and groom, where they reside, or claim to reside, and one of which must be the one where the marriage is to take place . The only way a marriage can take place in another parish is by licence.
Stan
Thanks Stan - wrong again!
Linda
This is correct, but nowadays Banns are often read in three churches because in the last few years it has become possible to marry in a parish to which one of the parties has a valid connection but in which neither is resident, and it seems to have become the norm to have the Banns read in the church where the wedding is going to take place as well as the other church(es) where they have to be read to make the wedding legal. (Or perhaps this is now a requirement? Is there a CofE priest out there who could clarify this please?).
Having said that, this would not have happened until very recently, so won't affect most people's research!
Melbell
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I think legislation in the Church of England changed in 2008 to allow people to get married in churches with which they have a connection but don't necessarily live near to:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukcm/2008/1
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Could an army chaplain have married them, there would have been chaplains in each area during the war and some attached to the hospitals. This would tie in if she was a nurse, the hospital could have a consecrated area for use as a church. The info would then go to the consulate to be registered and then sent on to UK.
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Could an army chaplain have married them, there would have been chaplains in each area during the war and some attached to the hospitals. This would tie in if she was a nurse, the hospital could have a consecrated area for use as a church. The info would then go to the consulate to be registered and then sent on to UK.
Yes I thought of a chaplain but only in relation to the consulate. It could have been at a hospital. A Skelcey relative who's into military history told me that there was a great deal of British infrastructure at that time in and around the town (which was conveniently distant from the front line) probably still being used after the Armistice.
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All overseas service marriages go through the consulate/embassy. The marriages aren't done in the consulate/embassy but the recording that's sent to UK is. It's the same with children born to service people overseas, it's recorded by the consulate/embassy. The wedding/birth cets. will show where the marriage was performed or the child born.