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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Max39 on Friday 08 October 10 21:23 BST (UK)
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I am interested in New Zealand family Caldwell.
John McFadyen Caldwell was born on 15th September 1903 at 255 Cumbernauld Road, Dennistoun, Glasgow. Was a joiner and emigrated to New Zealand after 1924. His parents were Alexander Reid Caldwell and Jane McFadzean Wilson.
Any information will be most welcome.
Now completed.
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Hi Max
Was Alexander Reid Caldwell born 4 Nov 1866 Stevenston, Ayr, Scotland...parents Mathew Caldwell and Agnes Reid? I haven't found anything of them in NZ yet.
lil
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Hi Max39,
There does not appear to be any death registered at BDM matching your John McFadyen Caldwell.
I cannot see a match on burial locator, Marriages or PapersPast either.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast
It looks as though he might have traveled further than NZ.
John B
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Snap John,
Max can you give us any further information? Do you know when he emigrated? or if he married? The only death on NZBMD that is close is for John (Jack) Caldwell who was born 24/5/1903 died 1983, not a match for birthdate.
Regards
Leandra
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Hi Max,
FindMyPast has this entry
CALDWELL John born approx 1904 M 1927 Glasgow to Canada Montreal
Cheers Janette
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Hi Max,
This is where the father is buried:
http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search
Cheers
KHP
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Hi Max,
Might be an idea to get the Death Notice of Alexander, if you haven't already got it, as it might give a clue to where John was at the time. Sometimes areas of living location are put in after the childrens names.
Cheers
KHP
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Hi Lil and John B,
Yes ARC was born as stated and his parents were born - Matthew 7/6/1824 and Agnes Boyd Reid on 18/6/1827 both in Stevenston.
Matthew was a coal miner. ARC occupation was as a clerical mercantile.
A NZ relative of John's contacted his brother in Scotland many years ago. I believe there was no Scottish follow up.
John's birth certificate records his middle name as McFadyen however his mother's records had numerous corrections to read McFadzean.
Max
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Was just about to reply Max the Alex I found is married to a Jane Mcfadzen minus the Wilson...no other info besides the birth of their children and John isn't mentioned.
lil
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Do you have the other childrens names? the tree is online on Ancestry.
lil
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Lil,
ARCaldwell children -
Robert, Alexander Reid, Catherine Todd, Agnes Boyd Reid, Jane or Jean Lauchland Neil, Matthew, John, Elizabeth Wilson Gemmell, Aurea Garay and James. There was a total of eleven children. One died in infancy. All the list end with Caldwell.
Robert married in Scotland and emigrated to USA
Catherine married in Scotland and also emigrated to USA
Jane/Jean emigrated to USA and married their.
Matthew emigrated to USA and married their and had a son prior to family returning to Scotland.
Elizabeth married in Scotand had daughter who married an Australian in Scotland. All emigrated to Australia.
Agnes died at an early age.
The rest died in Scotland.
Regards
Max.
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Awesome
Ok have found a death date for John 9 nov 1984, doesn't say where though...I don't know how correct this is as it has him born in Ireland 1907 and mother is Mcfaggent but father etc are all the same.
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This may give us a clue, different tree John had a daughter Jeanette born 7 Oct 1929 died 1 May 2001. Doesn't mention where. Note: story Alexander moved to Auz or NZ with "Betty" Elizabeth due to a huge arguement with his father, they never spoke again. Elizabeth is mentioned as dying about 1970 NZ.
Just looking at the burials details that KHP threw up. Alexander came over abt 1921...he'd been here 67 years. Obit is a great idea, also try the funeral directors for records...
lil
Sorry Max, Alexander son of Alex and Jane had a massive arguement with his father , not father Alexander.
Still nothin g on John in NZ
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Hi All,
Can I say a big thank you for the interest in my family problem.
Can I tidy up some of the data.
John Caldwell was the only member of Alexander Reid Caldwell and Jane Wilson McFadzean family to emigrate to New Zealand.
I am certain from family info that John did not marry in UK. Taking his birth in 1903 add schooling to say 15 years add 5 year apprenticeship equates to 1923 being the earliest he could have sailed. I have no knowledge of his moving to another country, very possible. I think he had to have left family in NZ.
For his siblings that left Scotland for abroad the year band is 1917 to 1924
Reference children via the Scottish death certificate that only gives the individual that registered the death and the individuals parents. In the case of Alexander and Jane, son Matthew was the registrant and both were cremated. Neither had been outside Scotland in their long lives.
Lil Reference your Alexander moved to Auz or NZ - Could this be John's brother Alexander Reid Caldwell who married Elizabeth Ayr, and they possibly had a son also named Alexander Reid Caldwell? This ARC was married 11/7/1917 in Glasgow He was born in Kilmarnock 1892 and Elizabeth was born 1893.
Hope this helps to stir more information.
Kind Regards
Max.
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The Dunedin cemetery record for ALEXANDER REID CALDWELL would fit,he died aged 96yrs in 1988 his Occupation:- JOINER and he was a Native of:- AYR, SCOTLAND and had lived in NZ:- 67 Years
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Janette,
I agree that this death and burial of ashes for Alexander Reid Caldwell is of considerable interest.
John Caldwell's brother Alexander Reid Caldwell was born 7/2/1892 in Kilmarnock, Ayershire. He was a joiner journeyman according to his marriage cetrtificate of 11/7/1917 where his age is recorded as 25 years which matches his birth certificate. His wife Elizabeth Ayr was a chemical worker aged 24 years. Both were resident in Glasgow at different addresses.
I note that the birth difference is 10 years and there is no mention of his wife or widow?
If this is not his brother who is he?
Regards
Max
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Hi Max
This Alexander Reid Caldwell would have been born in 1892
Cheers Janette
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Janette,
Yes the simple arithmetic error is unforgiveable.
This makes a big difference. This could well be the family element that contacted his brother James who lived in Scotland for all of his 91 years. I have to say that I had no knowledge of this family member until recently. So their might have been a dispute between him and his father ARC!
So we now have two families in NZ to research.
Regards
Max
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Hi Max,
I must admit I checked on my calculator to make sure ;D ;D
There is a death on NZ BDM's in 1962 of an Elizabeth Caldwell aged 69Yrs this would fit her age ,
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search.aspx?Path=%2FdeathSelect.m%3Fsort%3Ddfirst%24bdfirst%24#matches
Cheers Janette
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Janette,
I am totally convinced that this member of ARC and Jane McFadzean family did emigrated to New Zealand.
We here have census taken every 10 years ie 1881,1891, 1901 and 1911 is due for release late next year. Do you have something similar in NZ? My mind is on what family the couple have born in Scotland and more likely born in NZ?
Going back to John Caldwell how would I find when he emigrated to New Zealand and as we have not found a death for him was he cremated and if so how does one find that detail? I know that in Glasgow cremation search cost upward of £60.00, an arm and a leg.
Regards
Max
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Hi Max,
Unfortunately we don't have census here,they were destroyed for privacy reasons.
If John had died in NZ the death would have been registered and would be on BDM.
I had a look on FindMyPast
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/passengerListPersonSearchStart.action?redef=0
and there doesn't appear to be a John Caldwell to NZ
Cheers Janette
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Hi Max,
it looks like Alexander and Elizabeth came
CALDWELL Alexr R born 1892 M left 1921 from Southampton to New Zealand Auckland
CALDWELL Eliza born 1893 F left 1921 from Southampton to New Zealand Auckland
with what looks like ARC junior
CALDWELL Alexr R born 1919 M left 1921 Southampton to New Zealand Auckland
Cheers Janette
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Hi Max,
Found Elizabeth
http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search?recordid=128608&type=Cremation
Cheers Janette
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Hi Max
Yes, I definately think that the Alexander I mentioned is John's brother. I think the best way to determine which/Who Alexander is in Dunedin Cemetery is to contact the Funeral Directors. Hope and Son Ltd, Dunedin http://www.hopeandsons.co.nz/ you can contact them from this site. We have few members in Dunedin and this will be the simplest cost effective way to find out. I think also we may want to look for a Jack (is a deminitive for John) Mcfadyen Caldwell. I have a couple of John's and have found information under Jack.
lil
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I wonder if it was Alexander Caldwell who came to NZ and not John,
Cheers Janette
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Yes could be a few Senarios. He may have come and gone again or in NZ and just elusive. Still pay to look and then think about widening the search. One would hope with a middle name he'd be easy to find but he wouldn't be the first to come here and theres no information to be found. Auckland and Dunedin look like the areas to focus on...following Alexnder and Elizabeths trail.
lil
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Hi Lil,
I wonder if this is him
CALDWELL John born approx 1904 M left 1927 Glasgow to Canada Montreal
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Max
Incase there is some new information on here regarding your Caldwells http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&db=marna1&recno=6252
Jeanette..Is there anyway to find out if he travelled with a family member? I see the others went to the States, wonder if other members were in Canada.
lil
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Just had a look, doesn't appear to be any other Caldwells travelling the same time.. Doesn't mean he's not a possible though :)
lil
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I have put a request on the TM board for him
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I have put a request on the TM board for him
Good thinking Janette, the sleuths there might have a finger on a pulse somewhere.
Cheers
KHP :)
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I think we can eliminate the John that went to Canada,his address was 7 Braids Road Paisley and his occupation was clerk
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Hi all,
Well done.
The Alexander Reid Caldwell and Elizabeth are the son and daughter in law of Alexander Reid Caldwell and Jane McFadzean. This clinched with the son Alexander Reid Caldwell born 1919.
There was two births in Glasgow and one death of Alexander Reid Caldwell,
The first was the son of the eldest son Robert and Janet Turnbull White who died premature at ten hours. They had no more children to my knowledge and emigrated to USA shortly after death of son.
The second was the son of ARC and Elizabeth Ayr. We now know that he arrived in New Zealand.
I am of the opinion that my father got it wrong. I quess I should not be surprised considering I had no knowledge of an uncle Alexander Reid Caldwell until I started on the Caldwell Clan and checked the 1891 and 1901 census.
I was intriqued with the comment that there was an arquement between ARC senior and ARC junior prior to emigration to NZ.
Kind Regards
Max
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Hi Max,
Don't give up searching though. I had a similar case where an ancestor had an argument over pay with his employers and left NZ. Searched high and low for him for years, until last year when I happened by chance to spot a name on FreeBDM, and the transcribers had put an extra letter in the name, still wasn't convinced, but sent away for certificate and it was him. Yes, he moved to England.
Guess John isn't ready to be found yet.
Cheers
KHP :)
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Hi All,
More help needed please.
Having trouble finding information on the child Alexander Reid Caldwell, born 1919 in Glasgow. Having arrived in New Zealand 1921 - their appears to be no death record. Similarly I have not been able to find any other siblings that would have been born in NZ?
I wondered if ARC was involved in World War 11, possibly killed in action. He would have been 20 years at the start of the war?
Suggestions to obtain further family info most welcome.
Regards
Max
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Hi Max,
I don't see an entry on the CWGC website
http://www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour.asp
Cheers Janette
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Hi Max,
Just been checking my NZSG source and there is an item for a "Alexander R Caldwell" 1942 for the Chalmers Church BDM Register. Don't know if this is your man. But you would need to make enquiries through the Timaru Branch of the NZSG.
Cheers
KHP
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Hi Max,
An email to Hope & Sons Ltd may give more info,they may have a copy of the death notice that went in the newspaper for ARC senior which may name his children and say if they were deceased
http://www.hopeandsons.co.nz/contact_us.html
Cheers Janette
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Hi KHP,
This looks interesting. Am I right in thinking this could be a marriage? He would be about 23 years.
How do I go about contacting the Timaru Branch of NZSG? What does the SG stand for?
Max
Janette, I have sent an email to the undertakers.
Thanks
Max.
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Max,
SG stands for Society of Genealogists.
I'll make enquiries for you....... it might take a little while before I get an answer.
Cheers
KHP
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Contact details for Timaru - South Canterbury branch NZSG sent to Max by PM.
John B
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Hey Janette
Way to go on your 1000th 8)
1000 posts for Janette
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Congratulations from me to Janette :D You are such an asset to the board.
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Gee. that is absolutely huge, bigger than I gave Janette. Will need some heavy boots to keep you anchored to the floor with the weight of Tiara.
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;D Its not everday you become an aristocrat
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;D Thanks Althea, Leandra and KHP,I will wear my crown with pride
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Congrats Janette - well deserved crown ;D
John B
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Congrats Janette - well deserved crown ;D
John B
Thanks John :) :)
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Hi Janette,
Well done on your 1000th posting. I quess you must have helped several hundred family researchers in that time. Amazing. Keep up the good work.
Max in Scotland.
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:) Thanks Max :)
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Hi All,
I have taken your advise and contacted the undertaker and NZSG.
I await a reply from later.
I now know that there was a daughter born in New Zealand about 1926. At the death of her mother she was 36 years and is listed as Mrs L Davidson.
From death clippings ARC B 1919 married a Margaret surname unknown, NZSG info may resolve this.
ARC b 1892 was married three times! 1st in Scotland Elizabeth Ayr known, 2nd Alice Elizabeth Peterson around 1957 and lastly Ann McDonald in 1981 seven years before his death aged 96. There was a divorce but with which wife?
Again from clippings there are three grand children and ten great grand children.
Help wanted.
Max
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Hi Max,
It may pay to edit out any names of people who may be living
Cheers Janette
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Janette,
The greatgrand children would most certainly come within a possible living range.
The children of Alexander and Jean are very likely to be living. They are the most interesting next to Alexander and Jean.
I know the difficulties of finding information on relatives within the Scottish system and for what little I have experienced in searches within New Zealand I feel that will be as difficult or more so.
Janette have I made a bloomer?
Regards
Max
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Hi Max,
Just go back to reply #50 and click the modify and delete the names of those who may be living.
I am sure we can find more for you,
Cheers Janette
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Hi Max
it looks like this may be the death of the second wife
died 1976/43791 Caldwell Alice Elizabeth born 27 September 1889
Cheers Janette
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Hi Max
it looks like this may be the death of the second wife
died 1976/43791 Caldwell Alice Elizabeth born 27 September 1889
Cheers Janette
Cemetery record:
http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search
Cheers
KHP
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Hi KHP,
is there any sign of the second 2 marriages for ARC on the marriage disc?
Cheers Janette
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Yes ....... 1953
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Haven't put the name up just in case still alive .... no sighting on the burial cd.
Cheers
KHP
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I wonder if that is ARC junior as Max has the names of ARC seniors wives in #50
Cheers Janette
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I wonder if that is ARC junior as Max has the names of ARC seniors wives in #50
Cheers Janette
Possible ...... I will PM the name to Max.
Cheers
KHP
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The information that the Timaru Branch has, is probably relating to his 1942 marriage.
Cheers
KHP
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I think ARC junior has married at least twice. Following in fathers footsteps.
Max
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Hi max
There is an ARC in the whitepages might be worth a snail mail letter
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0a28/
Cheers Janette
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Hi Max,
Found the death of the first wife of ARC junior. Probably the spelling of the christian name is why I didn't spot it first time round :-[. There is even a picture of the headstone and looking at the headstone makes me wonder if there was going to be another name to be added later on.
http://www.timaru.govt.nz/cemetery-database2.html
Cheers
KHP
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Hi Kiwihalfpint,
Looks good. The year before his second marriage.
Well done.
Max
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Hi Max,
If you send off for the death certificate that should tell you the ages of the children, (if there were any) and the names of the deceased's parents. Getting the cheaper printout version ($20.40) will give you more information.
Cheers
KHP
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Hi Max,
If you are going to order the certificate, please note that the christian name is different once again, so enter the name that is on the headstone.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
Cheers
KHP
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Hi All,
Please accept my gratefull thanks for all your assistance.
I have contact with members of the New Zealand family of my uncle Alexander Reid Caldwell.
My original enquiry on John Caldwell will need more thought as my new family has no knowledge of him.
Keep up the good work and allthe best for 2011.
Kind regards
Max.