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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: jo68 on Friday 08 October 10 20:50 BST (UK)
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I think this may be James Thomas Cramond born 1877 and died tragically in 1913 while "testing" the automobile of his employer a Norman Greenhut in New York by stripping it down to the chassis and testing it while sitting on top on a strapped on wooden box and testing it's capabilities (an interesting article which made the front page of New York Times but I'm not sure if i can post it here)..I think James also have had an interest in motorcycles - this may or may not have been his but can someone advise me of it's make and date or tell me if I should post elsewhere? There is something written on the bike but I can't read it. I'm guessing this must be 1908 -1913 ?
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Sorry forgot to ask if someone could clean and sharpen it up a bit etc that would be lovely
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Also do you think he is 5'11" tall or just 5'3" - two brothers James Thomas and Robert Brash were both chaffeurs in New York and had serious accidents reported in the newspapers there. James died 1913 whereas Robert survived until at least 1942. Photo of Robert with dogs attached below
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It looks like this one. The date given is 1911.
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How did you find that so quickly???? It is virtually identical and I'm sure the name is Indian from looking at your photo. Just going back for another peek!
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Only difference I can see in an "inner band" on the rear wheel but presumably model adaptations happened. Any idea whether you would need to be mega rich to afford these? The people in question weren't wealthy at all but they had enjoyed steady employment and had all been educated to mid -late teens.
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I would guess that the man in the first photo is very short, thus the 5'3" one you mentioned. Compare his stature to the parts of the MC versus the photo that oldhippy found.
Nick
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The Indian Motorcycle had been manufactured from 1901 at Springfield Massachusetts and both motorcyles pictured appear to be single valve motorcycles.
OR
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How did you find that so quickly???? It is virtually identical and I'm sure the name is Indian from looking at your photo. Just going back for another peek!
I just googled moter bikes 1910's and picked a site at random. Pure luck to find that picture. :)
I also think the guy is on the short size when you compare both men against there bikes.
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Given that you know the make of motorcycle and its likely age you might be able to get its height and from that tie down his likely height.
Can't gaurantee that he wasn't photographed on a slope though.
bleh - should have read Nick's post.
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Many thanks to everyone for all your help. I guessed wrongly and now think it must be Robert Brash Cramond the same man as the 2nd photo. I followed Old Hippy's google tips and found http://classicmotorcyclesnow.com/classic-motorcycles/indian-motorcycles-1909-1915/ so think it may be a 1913 Four-Horsepower, Single Cylinder 30.50 (whatever that means). :)
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Single Cylinder 30.50 (whatever that means). :)
Americans quote engine sizes in cubic inches rather than cubic centimetres - I think 30.5 cu.in. is equivalent to 500cc.
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A clean and tidy with colour boost.
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I just love these old photos of motorcycles and cars. Firstly the original picture is of a single cylinder Indian motorcycle of 500cc (which equates to 30.50 cubic inches capacity the preferred method of the USA to measure engine capacity). What the modifications are on top of the fuel tank I can only guess at. They may be to do with improving performance or extra fuel carrying capacity. I won't speculate.
The original picture is of a chain drive motorcycle, whereas the second picture which shows an 'inner' rim is the wheel mounted drum for a belt driven cycle. Indian always preferred chain drive over belts from day one of production.
The keys to dating this image are the fork mounted leaf spring which was introduced in 1910 and lasted until 1946, and the name Indian which in this picture is the 'cursive' form adopted in 1911. So that alone tells us it is a post 1911 motorcycle. The exact date of course could be somewhat later still, but definitely no earlier than 1911, and definitely no later than 1913 given his early demise, so you can now adjust your dates on that jo68.
You might find this website of interest as it shows a post 1911 belt driven single cylinder 500cc Indian with an asking price of $75.000 in 2008! Don't you just wish you had one of those going spare in the basement eh?!
http://thevintagent.blogspot.com/2008/09/1911-indian-belt-driver-for-sale.html
Hope you find the colour images interesting.
Philip
PS the pedals would have been used to start the engine on its stand as there was no electronic start in those days. Also if one ran out of fuel, pedalling eventually got you to your destination or a filling station, though exhausted and sweaty! :o I remember my father having such experiences on his small motorcycle which followed the same principles lol. Poor old chap! Came home wheezing more than once :'(
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A couple of short videos.
1, pedal starting the cycle;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjZH1uQG3s
2, what it sounds like whilst running for proper;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2avCpTQb5QU
I hope it brings it to life for you.
P
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Just fiddling about with Indian research, this article about them (Indians) made me smile no end. Enjoy.
Hendee made early American motorcycles, which featured Native American names indicating a proud ruggedness. Red with gold striping, this one cylinder 3.5 horesepower loop-framed cycle weighs 140 lb (63.6 kg), has a wheel diameter of 23.5 in (59.7 cm) and cost a whopping $225.00 back in 1911. Founded in 1901, the company ceased operation in 1953. However, Indian motorcycles are still beloved—enthusiasts claim that there are still 50,000 Indian motorcycles on the road.
Indian bikes might reach 60 m.p.h., but handbooks cautioned riders to not exceed 10 m.p.h. through town. These early handbooks are full of advice and etiquette for the motorcyclist. Some period gems include: don't ride with the muffler open as "the noise scares restive horses, and worries invalids and nervous people," don't run away in case of accident but "stand by like a man … don't get rattled," and don't ride by a motorcyclist who is stalled by the side of the rode as "you may be in the same fix yourself some day."
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And...... after a bit more research I believe that the 'box' mounted on the top of the frame is for tools and the dial likely a speedo, though I am very much open to be corrected on those points.
I have also discovered that IOE means Inlet Over Exhaust............
P