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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Navn on Wednesday 06 October 10 10:29 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find out about the following married couple before they came to England from Norway in the 1860's:
Peter Henrik Haagensen, b: Moss, Ostfold, Norway, Aug 3 1837; d: 1919, England.
Johanna ("Janna") Andrea Eleonore, b: 7 Sept 1845, Vinger, Norway; d: 11 Dec 1897, England (I am presuming 'Eleonore' is not a surname, but not 100% sure).
Peter was "Born at Moss in Norway in 1837, he had come to Grimsby in 1867 and became Consul for Sweden and Norway four years later". A webpage about him is here: http://beehive.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/default.asp?WCI=SiteHome&ID=5641&PageID=107705
My grandmother was a Haagensen, and her father, Peter John Haagensen (1876-1948), was brought across from Fredrikstad, Ostfold, Norway, by his father, Haakon Oluf Haagensen (c1852-1920). Although it is said Peter Henrik Haagensen was her 'uncle', I have been unable to find a link between him and my Haagensen's.
So finding a bit more about Peter Henrik Haagensen before he came to England may enable me to find a possible link further back.
Any advice welcome.
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http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html
- shows a marriage in 1873 for him, in Branvold, Hedmark, Norway, to Johanne Eleonore Andrea Hagerup
His father is given as Hans Haagensen, hers as Hans Hagerup.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8880&idx_id=8880&uid=ny&idx_side=-218
- original image shows him as resident in Grimsby.
His christening is listed on that site as "Petter Henrich Haagensen", father Hans mother Andrea nee Boug.
The original image ( http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7515&idx_id=7515&uid=ny&idx_side=-21 ) confirms the "August 3" birthdate.
There are also several baptisms for siblings, mostly listed with surname Hansen.
He had at least four sisters - Annette Caroline, 1827, Bergitte Christine, 1830, Maren, 1834, Hanne Jacobine Caroline, 1839
At least one brother, Andreas, b. 1832
His mother remarried in 1841 to Simon Svendsen:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7515&idx_id=7515&uid=ny&idx_side=-188
They had at least two more children: Bergithe Magdalen, 1842, Hanna Andrea, 1846 (as Simonsen/Simonsdatter)
I think this might be his mother with his sister (Bergitte Christine Haagensen m. Hans Carl Funnemark in Moss in 1854) in the 1865 census:
http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1865&knr=0301&kenr=1857&bnr=1784&lnr=000
And probably Maren is here:
http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1865&knr=0104&kenr=000&bnr=0019&lnr=00
Judging from Johanna's address at marriage this is her family:
http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1865&knr=0421&kenr=004&bnr=0028&lnr=000
The boy there, "Frederick Emil", appears to be living with the Haagensen family in 1881 (head of household transcribed as "Postez H. Haagensen", brother in law as "Frederick Hagerun", Frederik Emil Hagerup married in England in 1886).
I can't actually find Peter on the 1865 census, perhaps he was already overseas at that point.
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jorose, that's brilliant! It should hopefully narrow things down. Many thanks.
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This may sound an obvious question, but how do you search for original images (not trascriptions) as on the links above, kindly posted by jorose? Looking at the website ( http://www.arkivverket.no/ ) where the images seem to be held, I cannot seem to find the search facility in question, even after translating the page.
At the minute I'm trying to find births of the following couple (or at least Hans):
Hans Jacob HAAGENSEN
Andrea BOUG
Married: 2 Jan 1827, Moss, Ostfold, Norway
Any help appreciated.
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Sorry, I managed to find the record images I was after.
I'm still having difficulties finding birth or parent details on Hans Jacob Haagensen though. I think he was born around 1797 and Andrea Boug in 1804.
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Hei!
This looks like a possible candidate for your Hans Jacob Haagensen in Glemmen, Frederikstad in 1801 with parents Haagen Hansen and mother Andrea Maria Jacobsdatter.
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=7&filnamn=f1801&gardpostnr=3592&personpostnr=45127&merk=45127#ovre
Family pilot search has his christening in Glemmen on 17 May 1792 to parents Haagen Hansen and Andrea Maria Hassing and this is it in the register http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7453&idx_id=7453&uid=ny&idx_side=-76
(http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7453&idx_id=7453&uid=ny&idx_side=-76)
Kaysii
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Takk, kaysii :)
They certainly look good possibilities. Depending on the source, the Norwagian surnames do seem to vary - maybe depending on whether the paternal naming system is adhered to at the time by the parents, or whoever registered or transcribed the names at the time (?).
On Hans Jacob HAAGENSEN & Andrea BOUG's marriage the age seems to be inked* over (seems to say 3* 1/2 ?), and I am not sure if the people in the witness column are related or not (though I would have thought so). Not easy to decipher it all though. Marriage no. 3: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061024020473.jpg with another Haagensen at no. 4!
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Yes you have to play around with names as there were no standardised spellings and surnames started at different times across the country. Those who "sponsor" the married couple are often not relatives, although you may want to try and find them to try and find out who Andrea's family are.
There seem no obvious connections to your Haakon Oluf Haagensen. How far have you been able to go back with his family? From what I can see his family came originally from Hedmark on his father's side.
Kaysii
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Yes, seems Haaken's Oluf's father was Johan Haagensen, b: c1817, Sor-Odal, Hedmark; mother Maren Gurine Hermansdatter b: c1817. I also have Haaken's siblings and children. I think Johan's father was Haagen Johansen, and mother Anne Johansdatter. No dates or similar details yet though.
Peter Henrik Haagensen's wife Johanna Hagerup was also from Hedmark, just east of Sor-Odal at Vinger (now Kongsvinger), so I have a feeling a link, if there is on, maybe through something similar to this.
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This is what I've found so far on Johanne.
Her parents are in Vinger in 1865
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=8&filnamn=f60421&gardpostnr=444&personpostnr=2820&merk=2820#ovre You can see that the farm name is the same as that given as birthplace of Johanne.
She is in Christiania (Oslo) in 1865
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=10&filnamn=f60301&gardpostnr=2236&personpostnr=51391&merk=51391#ovre
Her father Hans Hagerup was born in Odalen. From his marriage in Elverum in 1844 to Oline Pedersdatter (Moistad) we find that he is Hans Eilert and his father's name is Hans Henrik Hagerup. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8894&idx_id=8894&uid=ny&idx_side=-158
Here is a Hans Henrik Hagerup in 1801 Tryssil, Hedemarkwho is unmarried.
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=18&filnamn=f1801&gardpostnr=10996&personpostnr=168025&merk=168025#ovre
He married an Elen Andreasdatter and they had Hans Eilert 16 Dec 1811 and baptised 21 Jan 1812 in Odal. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9145&idx_id=9145&uid=ny&idx_side=-6
(http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9145&idx_id=9145&uid=ny&idx_side=-6)
Here is your Johan Haagensen's baptismal record in Odal 12 Oct 1817 (born on 11 Oct) if you don't have it.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9145&idx_id=9145&uid=ny&idx_side=-156
(http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9146&idx_id=9146&uid=ny&idx_side=-42
and his parents marriage Haagen Johannesen and Anne Johannesdatter 18 Oct 1812 [url=http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9145&idx_id=9145&uid=ny&idx_side=-156)
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Thanks again, kaysii
I had a lot of that information but not all of it. Think it's best to organise what I've got before I attempt to go futher.
The hand-written entries take a bit of practice to read!
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Good luck,
I'm sure you'll get used to reading the registers. The baptisms often had "godparents" who may be related or friends and neighbours and can contain clues to who relatives might be.
I don't know if you have spotted on the Norwegian digital archives there is also a users forum. You can get help from people who know the local area better and there are several who are really good at reading the sometimes awful handwriting in the registers.
I am not sure how widespread the practice was in Norway generally, but my mother had an "aunt"who she later found out was not related at all.
Kaysii
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Hi
I think that my Great Great Grandad was Peter Haagensen,Im looking up my family tree.Do you have any information on the family as i think we might be distantly related.Any help would be good.
Many Thanks
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Hi Neil,
Which Peter do you think was your gg-grandfather - Peter Henrik Haagensen or Peter John Haagensen?
Peter John was my g-grandfather but although it is said in my family Peter Henrik is related, as yet I have not been able to find a link.
Peter Henrik was at one time the British Consul to Norway and there is a monument to him, and his wife, in Laceby Cemetery, near Grimsby, N. Lincolnshire.
Peter John, after emigrating from Norway, lived in Grimsby all his life and worked on the docks in various jobs. He's buried with his wife in Scartho Cemetery, Grimsby.
I have quite a bit of info on both but it's not in an organised form yet.
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Hi My G G Grandad is peter john .He had a son oliver haagensen who had a son walter and then he had a son which is my dad Roger.Sounds like we might be related.Any information would be great.
Cheers Neil
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I don't know of any Oliver Haagensen in the family so not sure there's a connection. If your Peter John was the same as mine, his wife's name would have been Maud Florence Bark (or Florence Maud Bark).
I can't find a birth or death, but I found the following 2 marriages involving an Oliver (via FreeBMD):
Oliver P. Haagensen, married Fanny Walton, 1917, Grimsby.
Oliver P. Haagensen, married Louisa S. Hewitt, 1936, Grimsby.
There is a Walter K. Haagensen, born Sept 1925, Grimsby. Mother's maiden name: Walton.
Do these sound familiar?
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Hi
Could your man "Peter John" be nr. 15 here?
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6217&idx_id=6217&uid=ny&idx_side=-110
Johan Peter, born Dec 27, 1876 to father Helmsman Haagen Oluf Haagensen and mother Johanne Marie Ringut(?)
Jan in Norway
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Hi .Oliver was also Olaf Haagensen.born 1898 died in1977.in grimsby.He had two sisters Ethel and florence and 1 brother named William i think there might of also been a sister Adela .Maud Florence Haagensen was Olivers mum.i THINK I HAVE FOUND OUT that Peter Haagensens dad was called Haakon and Was married to a Johanne Marie Ringguth.Olivers first wife died when my grandad was 11 1935 and then he remarried again to a Louisa Hewitt.Walter K Haagensen id my grandad.
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Hi In the 1901 census florence M Haagensen think she is now using Maud as her second name is living with Peter J HAAGENSEN AT 90 CHARLTON STREET GRIMSBY WITH OLAF,wILLIAM AND ADELA.ITS ALL SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT JUST a bit of confusion.
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Neil,
You'll have to bear with me as I've got loads of info but most of it's on paper. I'll try to get around to sorting it out properly as soon as I can.
Just had a word with my father and he can remember an Oliver and he thinks he used to be a policeman or dock policeman. Does that ring a bell?
If it's the right Oliver, he was my grandmother's brother. Her name was Violet Haagensen b. 1916. Peter and Maude Florence had about 8 or so children in all.
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Hi NOT SURE ABOUT OLIVER BEING A Police ,but my grandad was .I will try and find a Violet Haagensen.Thanks For you help.
Cheers Neil.
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Hi Ive just spoken to my dad and he remebers Oliver being a dock Policeman and also he remebers a person called Violet.I can only find 4 Children for Peter but i can only get upto the 1911 census.I have seen somewhere that he had 7 children.
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Looks like we have the same Oliver then! Probably best if I send you my email address. Please check your forum peronal messages inbox.
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Hi
Could your man "Peter John" be nr. 15 here?
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6217&idx_id=6217&uid=ny&idx_side=-110
Johan Peter, born Dec 27, 1876 to father Helmsman Haagen Oluf Haagensen and mother Johanne Marie Ringut(?)
Jan in Norway
Hi Jan, sorry for the late reply. Thanks for looking in the Norwegian archives.
Yes that looks very likely the birth of 'our' Peter John Haagensen. Is 'Helmsman' part of his name or some kind of title etc, as I've not come across this in association with Peter J. before?
Incidentally, I have yet to find a link between Peter Henrik Haagensen, in the opening post, and Peter John Haagensen, who is a definite relation, this despite the family believing they/we were related.
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Hi again!
Johan Peter's father Haagen (could also be spelt Haakon/Håkon) is a helmsman in the merchant navy, as far as I can judge. Tricky handwriting, but I think this family lives in Baggaden in Fredrikstad...
J
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Hi again!
Johan Peter's father Haagen (could also be spelt Haakon/Håkon) is a helmsman in the merchant navy, as far as I can judge. Tricky handwriting, but I think this family lives in Baggaden in Fredrikstad...
J
Yes his usual spelling is Haakon but Hakon and Hagen/Hagon often turns up. Sometimes Haagensen is shortened to Haagens. too.
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Incidentally, I have yet to find a link between Peter Henrik Haagensen, in the opening post, and Peter John Haagensen, who is a definite relation, this despite the family believing they/we were related.
Have you tried looking for your "Peter Johns" father Haagen in the 1865-census? His marriage to Johanne Marie? His birth in 1852?
If he was born 1852 a marriage early 1870's is likely, but where? Fredrikstad-area, several parishes possible...
J
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Incidentally, I have yet to find a link between Peter Henrik Haagensen, in the opening post, and Peter John Haagensen, who is a definite relation, this despite the family believing they/we were related.
Have you tried looking for your "Peter Johns" father Haagen in the 1865-census? His marriage to Johanne Marie? His birth in 1852?
If he was born 1852 a marriage early 1870's is likely, but where? Fredrikstad-area, several parishes possible...
J
Yes I have the him in the 1865 census. He's listed as Hagen there and his father is Johan Haagensen and his mother Maren and brother Oscar. This is in the district of Forstaden, Fredrikstad. Johan was probably born in Odalen (Sor-Odal).
At this stage it is likely Johan Haagensens father was a Haagen Jonasen.
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Yes,
here they are:
http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=3&filnamn=f60103&gardpostnr=245&personpostnr=3509&merk=3509#ovre
Johan Haagensen is Brændeviinshandler (=Liquour dealer) and has one pig...!
He is born Odalen, his sons in Fredrikstad and Maren in Forstaden (= Fredrikstad suburbs)
Shouldn' t be too difficult to find births & confirmations.....
J
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Thank you for your help.
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You welcome!
Hakon Oluff's birth Nov 19, 1852 is #27 here (I think!):
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7450&idx_id=7450&uid=ny&idx_side=-150
His father Johan is "Handelsborger", some kind of upper class, trying to translate it to modern English...
J
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HI
Ive been looking around and i think Johan Haagensen dad is Haagen Jonason 1817-1852 ,mother Anne Johansdatter 1789-1858 although there is a large age difference ???? .
Haagen Jonasen father is Jona Mathisen 1770 and mother Eli Olsdatter 1758-1801??? The birth place for Jona Mathisen is showing two diffrent places one source says Odal Hedmark in Norway and the other source says its Odal, Uttaranchal India.Both sources have the same names and dates for the wife and children ie Haagen Johasen.All very confusing .Any ideas.
Kind Regards
neil
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Hi Neil!
After browsing the replies in this topic is my interpretation of the Haagensen family line like this:
(paternal)
Johan Peter (UK: Peter John) - Haagen Oluf (b 1852) - Johan Haagensen (b 1817) - Haagen Jonassen (b approx 1790)
I think Haagen is here with his parents and younger sister in 1801:
http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=3&filnamn=f18010418&gardpostnr=16&personpostnr=81&merk=81#ovre
This family lives in what is Sør-Odal Municipality in Hedmark County today.
Johan Haagensen is "alive and kicking" in Fredrikstad in 1865. (really Jan 1, 1866)
J
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Hi
Thanks for the information it backs up what i thought.The only confusion is Odal in india and Odal in Norway.Its either wrong and he was born in Odal Norway or would there be a possibilty that Jonas Mathisen who i think is Haagen Jonasen was born when his father was in the army and he was in India.Long shot i know.Not sure if theres much of a link between Norway and India.
Any way that again for all your help.
Kind Regards
neil
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I work it out as the following:
1. Jonas Mathisen b. c1770 Sor-Odal, Hedmark, Norway
+ Elie Olsdatter b. c1758
2. Haagen Jonasen b. c1790 Sor-Odal, Hedmark, Norway
+ Anne Johansdatter
3. Johan Haagensen b.1817 Sor-Odal, Hedmark, Norway
+ Maren Gurine Hermansdatter b.1817 Forstaden, ?Fredrikstadt, Norway.
So Jonas is the father of Haagen as the paternal naming system implies. So presumably the first name of the father of Jonas would be a 'Mathis' or similar.
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Yes, I think your Haagen's baptism is here "11th Sunday after Trinity", 1790:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9142&idx_id=9142&uid=ny&idx_side=-286
(#7, left column)
But I see no immediate indications your Jonas was born in Sør-Odal, have you found his baptism/confirmation?
-J
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Hi
I have found this on another family tree that a couple of other people have done.Not sure if this is correct or not.They have got all the other information correct,Not sure who they are but have sent them emails .Think they might of been researching the haagensens.
Kind Reagrds
neil
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Yes, I think your Haagen's baptism is here "11th Sunday after Trinity", 1790:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9142&idx_id=9142&uid=ny&idx_side=-286
(#7, left column)
But I see no immediate indications your Jonas was born in Sør-Odal, have you found his baptism/confirmation?
-J
Sorry, Jan. My mistake. I do not have a birth place for Jonas yet. I got too keen with the copy and pasting!
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I would say it is 50/50 if Jonas was born in Sør-Odal. From his rare occupation & a comment saying "Iron Works" at Haagen's baptism I reckon he was a worker at the old Odal Iron Works and may hence have moved to the area to take work.
..but keep browsing and see what you find!
(his confirmation and marriage could also provide useful info)
I see no immediate link to the other Peter Henrik Haagensen, either, so far....
(but I may have some ideas...!)
J
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Hi
i have a few dates for Johnan or Johnas haagensen.I think they are right I have him born in Nybak Norway 1817,married maren Hermansdatter 12th apr 1840,occupation at this time Gevaldiger.It says it is a non commissioned officer who belonged to the military adminastration of justice.in 1853 i have him dow as a trader citizen in Fredrikstad, in 1865 i have him down as a Distilled spirts tradesman all in fredrikstad. still the same in 1875.Nothing afer that.Does this sound right to everyone unless i have it completly wrong.
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Yes I think you're on the right track Neil!
I found the 1840-marriage, Johan is listed as "Soldier" in the "Klokkerbok". If he was alive in 1875 it is quite likely he died in Fredrikstad some time between Jan 1, 1866 and Dec 3, 1900.
In the 1840 marriage the bride's father is Herman Monsen, in case you haven't got it already...
J
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Hi did your peter Haagensen have a brother richard george Haagensen this is my grandad and there farthers name was hakkon from norway iv got his alien as they called them in that day registration papers into the country and a photo.and also a photo of a family wedding taken in the 1930's with peter and george as well as there sisters on it.
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Hi
Thanks for the email.I have looked into the family tree quite alot i havent found a brother called Richard George haagensen yet.My Great Great grandfather peter haagensen had the following brothers ansd sisters Johan,Hariett,Thora,Alga Harry and a Hanna.Does any of these names mean anything to you.Haakon was born 19th nov 1852 and died 11th July 1920 Haakon seems to be spelt differently sometimes,his wife was Johanne Marie Ringguth. born 1850 died 1935.Would be great to know if Richard was another brother.All the family seem to have lived in the Grimsby / Cleethorpoes area does this sound about right for Richard.I do have some information if it helps.
Kind Regards
neil
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Hi did your peter Haagensen have a brother richard george Haagensen this is my grandad and there farthers name was hakkon from norway iv got his alien as they called them in that day registration papers into the country and a photo.and also a photo of a family wedding taken in the 1930's with peter and george as well as there sisters on it.
Hi. Like Neil, Richard George Haagensen is not a name I've linked our Peter John Haagensen to either. Peter was born in 1876 in Norway. But there were are a lot of Haagensen's in the Grimsby area so there may be a connection somewhere.
Looking on the Free BMD website, there are no Richard George Haagensen's listed, but there is a George R. Haagensen born 1914, Grimsby, with a mother's maiden name Stones. There is also a marriage in 1938, Cleethorpes, with wife's name Alma Taylor. A George R. also died age 32 in 1946, Grimsby.. Maybe these are your Richard George Haagensen?