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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Rochdalian on Sunday 03 October 10 12:27 BST (UK)
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Hi
I have an ancestor Alfred Flinders (b1809 Nottingham) who went to live in Lyon, France. He married Madelaine Murat in 1839 or 1859, not sure which. I was told that there may be three or four children to this marriage although I am really not sure. The names I have are Hectorine Flinders b1855, Henriette Flinders b1859 and Francoise Henriette Flinders b1870, all in Lyon. There was also a mention of a William.
Those dates seem strange to me so I am looking for help please in unravelling this family.
Cheers
Bob
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Hi Bob,
You may have already seen this, but the Pilot Family Search has records of a Flinders family in Lyon which certainly looks like yours.
If you just type in Alfred Flinders, location France - some baptisms and a marriage.
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=home
Yorkslass
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Hi both :)
They legitimised 7 children when they married on 3 Mar 1859:
Alfred, born 9 Feb 1838
Antoine Alphonse, 4 Jun 1842 (corrected to 1842 - I didn't initially see the 'deux', sorry)
Henry, 23 Sep 1844
Elisa, 23 April 1849
Marie, 27 Dec 1851
Hectorine, 7 Dec 1855
Henriette, 4 Feb 1859
http://www.fondsenligne.archives-lyon.fr/ac69v2/visu_affiche.php?PHPSID=4fb93b98c3db23f7b0a457efaad380a7¶m=visu&page=82#
Alfred born 17 Aug 1809 in Nottingham, parents William Flinders (died Nottingham 14 May 1850) and Elizabeth Wright (died Nottingham 27 Dec 1847)
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Thank you both, Yorkslass & Tati, for your help. The family is now starting to make sense.
Couldn't open the link you gave me though Tati, it sorta opened but I just ended up with a task type bar down the left side and a grey block top left with a moving thingy in it. Sorry I don't know the correct terms!!
Cheers
Bob
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Oh indeed - sorry! Worked fine for me yesterday and now I'm getting the same as you.
Let's try step by step:
http://www.archives-lyon.fr/archives/sections/fr/archives_en_ligne/registres_paroissiau/registres_paroissiau/
Select: accéder aux registres, then:
Commune: Lyon
Subdivision: 3ème arrondissement
Type d'acte: Mariages
Registre ou table: Registre
Année: 1859 à 1859
Click 'rechercher' and you get 1 result. Click on the result and a new window opens. You're on page 1 out of 826. Go straight to page 82.
I had a quick look yesterday and they also had a William, confirming the document on the pilot familysearch org.
Françoise Henriette seems to have been the younger Alfred's daughter: familysearch gives her father's age as 32.
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Thanks Tati that worked, I am 'appy. It's fantastic being able to see the actual register, plus actual signatures!!
Just one thing, there appears to be a MARIE between Elisa and Hectorine, would I be right? Not being able to read French I can't work out what it says around the name.
Cheers
Bob
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Yes, there's a Marie, born 27 Dec 1851. I listed her in my earlier reply :)
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Oops sorry my fault, somehow I didn't enter Marie onto my database. :-[
If I wanted to follow one or more of the children forward could you give me a few pointers please? I assume I would use the website you sent but, although I can work out some things, I'm really no good at French.
Cheers
Bob
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I'm not a specialist (euphemism :P)
If I had to research them, I suppose I'd first search for their actual birth records to see if there are any marginal notes in the records (though honestly I have no idea when they introduced marginal notes at all!)
The marriage cert we saw tells us what day the children were registered, so it's just a matter of trawling through a few dozen pages each time.
To research in France, you have to know the exact place where events occurred, which doesn't make it easy. However, I see there's a very convenient search tool for marriages in the whole of the Rhône département
http://www.sglb.org/cgi-bin/gbk-searchM.pl
This lists several Flinders marriages, including exact dates and places. From there, you can go back to the record search and look at the images.
When you search for records in a given place but don't know when they occurred, you can search the indexes first (tables)
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Thanks Tati for the advice, I will give it a go
Bob
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Sorry to be a bother Tati but that website you gave me in your last post won't open. All I get is "No data table provided!" in the top left of a blank screen.
Bob
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Well I'm mystified as to why the links never seem to open.
Take it from here again:
http://www.archives-lyon.fr/archives/sections/fr/archives_en_ligne/registres_paroissiau/registres_paroissiau/
Under the "accéder aux registres" link, there's something called "Mariages : recherche facilitée" with a link to the site.
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Thanks once again Tati, I'm 'aving some success with the mariages. :) Next I will tackle the births! ;D
Bob
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According to the Alfred/Madelaine marriage, the children were all born in the 3ème arrondissement and registered as follows:
Alfred, born 9 Feb 1838 was registered 'le surlendemain' = 2 days later
Antoine Alphonse, born 4 Jun 1842, registered le surlendemain (but I can't seem to find the actual record, oh dear! ???)
Henry, born 23 Sep 1844, registered le lendemain = the following day
Elisa, born 23 April 1849, registered le surlendemain
Marie, born 27 Dec 1851, registered 30 Dec
Hectorine, born 7 Dec 1855, registered 14 Dec (page 258, registre naissances Lyone 3ème 1855)
Henriette, born 4 Feb 1859, registered le même jour = same day (page 36, registre naissances Lyone 3ème 1859)
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Hi Tati
I'm really getting the hang of these registers now, and what a wealth of information.
Thank you very much for all your help ;)
Cheers
Bob
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Hi Bob,
It seems we have ancestors in common. Your Alfred Flinders was a brother of my Henry, baptized February 16, 1807. I am curious about Alfred's reasons for emigrating to France, and also about the names of his children. It would be interesting to know if there are descendants in France. Perhaps we can be of mutual help.
Sincerely,
Sylvia Strapps-Coon
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Hi Sylvia,
Didn't your Henry come to France as well ? A matching Henry marries twice in Lyon, 1853 to Marie Dorothée Alig and 1873 to Maria Barbe Walder. According to his son Henri Georges' marriage in 1898, Henry died on 5 Jan 1877 in Lyon 6e arrondissement.
I hope I'm not disproving any previous research of yours ...
Tati :)
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Hi Tati,
I wonder if we are talking about the same Flinders family. My Henry's parents were William Flinders and Elizabeth Wright. His death certificate states that he died in Nottingham in 1883 and his wife Catherine was present at his death. Who were your Alfred's parents.
Thanks,
Sylvia
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Hi Sylvia,
I haven't personally any Flinders but it appears that the Henry Flinders born Nottingham 16 Feb 1807 went on to marry and die in France.
There's this marriage:
Lyon, 3e arrondissement, 11 Oct 1853
Marriage Henri Flinders, born Nottingham 16 Feb 1807, legitimate son of William Flinders (died Nottingham 14 May 1850) and Elizabeth Wright (died Nottingham 27 Dec 1847)
Bride Marie Dorothée Alig.
This same Henry goes on to have a 2nd wife in Lyon and die there in 1877.
Sorry if this comes as bad news for you :-\
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Hello Sylvia & Hello again Tati, sorry it's taken me so long to answer but I've just got home from holiday yesterday.
Tati is quite right about Henry dying in Lyon and he also is the son of William Flinders & Elizabeth Wright. When I started this thread three years ago Tati was most helpful in pointing me in the right direction to find out about the lives, wives and descendents of Alfred and Henry. I managed to put together a substantial amount of information including actual BMD certificates with translation (my sister in law speaks and reads French ;). One thing I didn't find is why they went to Lyon in the first place, my guess is that it had to do with lace manufacture as both Nottingham and Lyon were centres of lace making.
It will be interesting to see if we are talking about the same Henry.
Cheers
Bob
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Hello, Bob and Tati,
Regarding Henry Flinders, it seems I received incorrect information when I started researching my Flinders lineage. Further research has revealed a Henry, baptized April 10, 1809, in Nottingham. It's easy to understand the confusion with the other Henry, born in 1809. I am grateful to have found this website so I can correct my records. Now the task is to find the ancestors of Henry, born in 1809.
Many thanks to you both,
Sylvia
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Hi Sylvia
I may be able to help a little. I think the following may be your Henry.
Henry Flinders bap 10 Apr 1809 St Mary Nottingham, d 2 Jun 1883 Sneinton Hollows, Notts.
m. Catherine Humphries Jun 1841 Chippenham Wilts. She was born c1819 Keston Langley Wilts, d Mar 1893 Nottingham.
Henry's parents were William Flinders & Mary Archer m 8 Feb 1802 St Mary Nottingham, no other info.
Henry's siblings: James b c1802, d 1818; William b c1804 d 1879 Dudley Staffs; Mary b c1807 d 1809.
Children of Henry Flinders and Mary Archer: Edward b 1841; Thomas William b 1843; Henry James b 1845; Mary Jane b 1850; Emma b 1852; John Edward b 1854; Eliza Ann b 1857; Charles Frederick b 1859; Edwin Matthew b 1862; John Henry b 1865.
I am assuming that if this is your Henry and his family then you already have info on these children, if not I can give you more. I just thought we need to clarify if we are talking about the right Henry before I go into detail that you may already have, let me know.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Bob
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Hi Bob,
Yes, that certainly looks like my Henry. His daughter Mary Jane Flinders was my great-grandmother. My mother, who left Nottingham in 1913 just about remembered her. My mum was eight years old when she immigrated to Ontario, Canada.
I would be pleased to have details about Mary Jane and her siblings. Thank you very much for your help.
Best Regards,
Sylvia
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Hi Sylvia
If you could send me a PM with your email address then I can send you the information.
Cheers
Bob
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Hello Bob,
How do I send a PM from this website. I don't know how to do that.
Thanks,
Sylvia
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Hi Sylvia
Just click on my avatar (Rochdalian) on the left of this post which will take you to my profile. Then on the left you will see 'Send PM' :)
Cheers
Bob