RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: betyty1712 on Friday 01 October 10 16:41 BST (UK)
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Hi - I'm new on the site, so not sure just what I'm doing!
I'm trying to find out more about my 3x gr grandfather Private William Norgate, who served with the 11 light dragoons.
I've discovered while doing my family tree that he was apparently murdered at Houqueliers. Northern France in 1818 & I'm trying to find out more about the circumstances of his death.
I'm hoping somebody out there might just have him on their tree & be able to tell me more!!
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hi betyty1712
welcome to rootschat , could you give us william,s birth date and place of birth only i,ve had a look for his record but it doesn,t show up there are several william norgates,but not the correct dates or reg,s any info you caan post may help to find him
trevor
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William Norgate was serving with his regiment, the 11th Light Dragoons, at Waterloo. He appears on the roll in Capt Jenkin's troop.
After the Waterloo campaign the 11th remained in northern France as part of the Army of Occupation and they were still there in 1818. They embarked for England in Nov of that year.
So that sets the scene...
Do you have a more precise date for his supposed murder? And can I ask what your source is for the murder story?
Where exactly is Houquelins, any idea? Google maps doesn't appear to recognise it.
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Hi - Thanks for replying - I wasn't really hopeful of any response at all!!
I've managed to find quite a bit of info on William from various sources. The Hampshire local history society apparently hired a researcher to look into Wiliam's death & passed on their info when I contacted them.
According to their info, he was murdered at Houcqelins(I later found this to be Houcqueliers) on 24th Aug 1818, when the regiment were stationed at Clarques. I've found the place on google maps - just S.E of Boulonge, near the Pas de Calais.
I've not found his dob - he's on quite a few trees on genes, but lots of confusion as to his parents & dob.
According to army records, he was born at Hinton Ampner - if I can find his age on death, it would help to work out his dob & parents!
His rank on death was that of Private; he was present at Waterloo (he's on the roll of honour); he married Catherine Moran on 23rd Dec 1810 at Wyke church, Weymouth; on his death Catherine was awarded £1.5s10d.
Well - that's about as much as I know about William - if anyone can fill in any gaps I'd be over the moon! I would also happy to compare trees with anyone with any connection.
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Hi Betyty, just found this message. I have been doing research into the Hampshire Norgates, as I am also descended from them. There is a William Norcot ( one of the many ways the name has been spelled) who was born in Hinton Ampner who was baptised on 16 Nov 1783, the illegitimate son of Ann Norcot. He might fit the bill. There is a possibility Ann is the daughter of Richard Norget and Martha Porter.
If you want more info, feel free to contact me.
Linda
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Hi - thanks for replying. It's so long since I did anything with my tree it took me ages to work out how to use the website!!!! I got so fed up of hitting brick walls I lost the heart to go on with research. Hopefully a new clue from you might just give me the will to carry on with things.
I'll have to look into the William Norcot that you mention in your post.
Many thanks,
Kath
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Hi Kath and Linda,
William Norgate was one of my ancestors, too.
I think I probably have the same info as you both, more or less.I would love to know if he would have been buried in France - would he have got a burial in the local Church?
Also, I've been trying to track what happened to happened to his wife, who remarried and disappears after the 1861 census.
I'm new to the site - is there a way to email each other?
Judy
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Hi Judy - nice to hear from you!
I've no idea where William was buried - I contacted a guy in Belgium who keeps a record of the French war graves, in the hope they might go back to the Napoleonic wars. He replied & said he would try to find out more, but I've not heard any more from him. I guess he didn't find anything out.
I've got a few bits of info that may be of interest to you - some research done by a Karen Sanders into William's demise, but nothing as to the circumstances of his death.
Apparently Ms Sanders has been in contact with the French records office at the Pas de Calais, but without a reference number they were unable to trace any info.
If I have your e-mail address I'll forward the bits I have, but don't post your address on the noticeboard - you can send it in a personal message. It's not very often I use Rootschat, so I can't remember how to do it!!! LOL!!
I lost interest in doing my tree for quite some time - fed up of hitting brick walls! I tend to get back into it when the weather turns bad in the winter, or when a message such as yours renews my interest, Maybe you've spurred me on to start looking again!!
When I work out how to send a pm (again!!) I'll send you my e-mail address & we can stay in touch. It's nice to hear from someone looking into the same family.
Talk to you again soon I hope,
Regards,
Kath
PS - do you have a definite dob for William? None of the William Norgates I've found quite seem to tally with the bits of info I have - must be one of them, but for the life in me I can't work out which one!!!
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Click on the small green scroll icon in the left hand column to send a personal message
James
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Hi James - thanks for that!! I'll give it a go right now!!
Me & techno stuff are not a good mix - I work out how to do things & then next time I can't remember how I did it. LOL!!!!
K.
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Hi James - thanks for that!! I'll give it a go right now!!
Me & techno stuff are not a good mix - I work out how to do things & then next time I can't remember how I did it. LOL!!!!
K.
William Norgate was born in 1795 in Ropley he married Catherine Moran (1789 - 1863) .They had a Son William
(1816 - 1894) Catherine remarried after her Husbands death, to Stephen Merritt (my Great Great Granddad) in Hinton Ampner in 1823.
I hope this helps
Geoff Merritt
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Hi Geoff
It's nice to 'speak' to a descendant of Catherine and Stephen!
What's puzzled me for quite a while, is whilst they are both in the 1861 census, they seem to disappear then - particularly Catherine. I have seen the 1863 date suggested for her death before, but on every ancestry site I've researched on, I can't find a date or place of death for Catherine Merritt.
I've looked at various spellings of Merritt and tried Norgate and Moran too, to no avail. I presume they were still in the Hinton Ampner/Bramdean area after 1861, but can't track her death date there or anywhere else.
Anyone found it?
Catherine and William had three children, William (b1814 in the UK), Catherine(Caroline) (b1816) and Henry (b 1818). Catherine(Caroline) and Henry were both born in France.
William and Catherine were my 3xgreat grandparents.
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Hi Judy nice to "hear" from you too.
Catherine Merritt died in Bramdean Hants in 1863.
They had three children....George (1825 - 1902 My Great Granddad), Lucy (1826- 1863) and Stephen ( 1828 - 1856)
In the 1841 census William Norgate aged 25 was living with them in Bramdean......but in 1851 he had moved on.
Any other queries I can help with?
Let me know, I don't know how to email you from this site
Geoff
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Do you have a date for her death?
Have looked at Bramdean 1863 but have been unable to find it, quite a few times and on various sites!
Thanks.
Judy
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Hi Geoff
If you make a third post you can send Judy a personal message with email details. The forum bans posting email addresses to prevent spam.
Ken
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Hi Ken Many thanks for the tip
Geoff
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Hi, I've been doing some research on the Norgates, and I don't think that William Norgate from Ropley was your man. According to the parish registers, he was born 24 Feb 1796. This would have made him only 8 on enlistment on 4 Mar 1804, and only 14 on his marriage to Catherine, who at that time was about 25.
I believe that William b 1796 married Elizabeth (Betsey) Budd, nee Legg on 31 oct 1827 in Ropley, and their daughter Lucy Ellen was baptised 2 Dec 1827.
I think that William Norcot baptised 16 Nov 1783, the illegitimate son of Ann in Hinton Ampner is more likely to be the correct one.
Linda
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Hi Linda
Thanks for your post, but I am afraid we may have to beg to differ on this on.
As Catherine Norgate after being widowed, married Stephen Merritt and had three children by him.
According to the 1841 census, the Norgate's first born William was living with them and working on the farm with his Stepfather.
So the mystery deepens!
Geoff
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The names Norcot and Norgate were interchangeable, so I agree that Catherine Murren married William Norgate, but that it was probably not the one born in Ropley, but the one born in Hinton Ampner.
According to Betyty's post on 5 oct 2010, army records have his place of birth as Hinton Ampner anyway, and not Ropley.
There were actually 7 William Norgates (of various spellings!) born in the area between 1782 and 1798.
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ok hope this helps you out.
taken from the hgs baptism cd
Name 1St Date Baptise place
Norcot William 16th November 1783 Hinton Apner
Norgate William 07th August 1803 Colmer
Norgate William 13th October 1763 East Melon
Norgate William 19th Feburuary 1766 Priors Dean
Norgate William 12th December 1779 Hambledon
Norgate William 21st April 1782 Newton Valence
Norgate William 27th September 1789 East Melon
Norgate William 09th April 1797 , Newton Valence
Norgate William 28th March 1798 Farrington
Norgate Wm 29th April 1801 Cheriton
Norgate Wm 25th May 1754 Bentworth
Norgate William 24th June 1804 Ropley
Norgate William 03rd April 1796 Bishops Sutton
Norgate Willm 25th July 1782 Ropley
Norgate Wm 25th October 1761 Bishops Sutton
although i have the norgate name within my tree they are there because they link in to another name and as yet have not linked them together due to time. having said that a dennis born around 1783 (parents unknown at this time as he is not on the cd) in the ropley area was the husband of my 2nd cousin 5 x removed hannah white.
judy
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Hi,
Dennis Norgate married to Hannah White is also on my tree, My theory (as yet unconfirmed, I need to check the registers next time I an in the Record Office) is that Dennis was actually mistranscribed from the PR's as James. On these CD's there is a James Norgate b 1782 son of John Norgate and Susanna Lovelock who is never seen again after his baptism. I can see how a badly scrawled Dennis could be misread as James, especially as Dennis was not a common name in those times.
As I say, still only an assumption!
Linda
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IF i get a chance to go to hants before the parish regs go up on line (depends on my health) i will have a look and see what i think. i have come across just such a mistake with one of my other persons in the tree.
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I suggest you remove that image from the HGS CD as you are breaching Copyright by showing it.
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If you would like to see what he would have looked like see:-
www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyuniforms/britishcavalry/11thltdragoonsuniform.htm.
The facings colour was buff and the lace silver/white.