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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: owenc on Monday 27 September 10 15:47 BST (UK)
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What is the origin of the surname mcwilliams? I am so confused as it says that they came over in the plantation but nearly all of them are catholic so how could they have done that? Is it possible that they came as catholics or came earlier? I really want to know its so confusing. This says its scottish: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/mcwilliams , but is it really, does anyone know any history of the family in northern ireland as it is only common here nowhere else on this island. Which is shown on the 1911 census.
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Hi
I have been trying to trace a family ancestor, Robert Nathaniel McWilliams, who was born in Ireland in Monaghan in 1831. He was Church of Ireland and later in South Africa joined the Wesleyan Church. The name has always been spelt McWilliams and as far as I know there were no catholics in the family. If you could shed any light on where I should look for his birth I would be thrilled. His mother was Mary McAvinue
Jenny
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Hi
I have been trying to trace a family ancestor, Robert Nathaniel McWilliams, who was born in Ireland in Monaghan in 1831. He was Church of Ireland and later in South Africa joined the Wesleyan Church. The name has always been spelt McWilliams and as far as I know there were no catholics in the family. If you could shed any light on where I should look for his birth I would be thrilled. His mother was Mary McAvinue
Jenny
Aw yes most of them in northern ireland and the provience of ulster are catholics but there are a few protestants, as i know all the ones here are presbyterian but mines aren't from here so they are catholic, thats why i was trying to find a conversion but so far i haven't.. :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[. You should look on emerald ancestors and familysearch.org for yours. Yours are probably welsh or english due to being church of ireland the mcwilliams are probably one of the rare planters to be english! ::) typical lol.
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My McW line is catholic back to the 1600s in Ballinascreen (Derry). There is a report from a Drapers Company deputation in 1817 which states that the inhabitants of that area, while Catholic, physically resembled the Scots, not the other local Irish. The report surmised that the inhabitants had migrated to Ireland from Scotland before the Reformation. Possible... It is a Scottish surname.
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People moved between the north of Ireland and Scotland/the isles for thousands of years. One of the well known movements pre-reformation were Scots who were called the "Gallowglass". They were warriors who served as mercenaries in the wars between Irish chieftains. Later Scottish mercenaries were known as "Redshanks" and some of them fought on the side of the Irish against the Tudor conquest of Ireland:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallowglass
Blue
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Though the majority of Scots settlers in the Plantation were Presbyterian, there were some Catholics, notably followers of the James Hamilton (later 1st Earl of Abercorn) who settled around Strabane. But there were other Catholic settlers from Scotland. So your ancestors could be Catholic and have originated in Scotland. Not always easy to determine after 400 years or more.
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The surname could also have been changed over time from a similar sounding surname such as McQuillan. In the Isle of Man the variant of this surname is Quilliam.
Blue
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Where did you get this info from Drapers Company, that they didn't resemble the locals and looked like scots?I'd be most interested in this. I though it was derived from McQuillan a more established name in Ireland. Some of McWilliams in the area in 17-18 century were spelling it as McQuilliams. This was later changed to McWilliams. But can't rule out Scots connection
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Could be involved in that extention of MacDonald power from the Isles into Antrim.
The MacSween's crossed the "sheugh" also, becoming Sweeney's I believe.
Skoosh
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From: "John McQuilliams" <*>
Subject: Re: [McWILLIAMS-L] McWilliams family records - Ireland, part 4 (name, spellings, religion)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:11:12 -0700
Hi All
I have a few things to add to this rendition of the McWilliam,s in Ireland.
They were in Ireland many years prior to the DeMandevilles of the 13th
century.
The McWilliams of Moray of Scotland established bases in Ulster in the 12th
century. They were in constant rebellion of the Scottish King from as early
as 1127 to 1280, in the 160 year time frame they called both Ireland and
Scotland home. The Demandeville family was in constant turmoil with the Then
accepted King John of England. He left The Isle of Mann for Ulster in the
same time period as the McWilliams of Moray. The Deburgh branch of the
McWilliam family did not arrive in Ulster until the early part of the 14thg
century.
That the McWilliams of Moray were a constant problem with the Scottish King
is evident in the Scottish Chronicles. That particular;lar branch was
massacred at the cross of Forfar in Scotland in the latter part of the 13th
century.
That there was an intermix of the various families is a foregone conclusion,
they had one thing in common, there continual rebellion against the accepted
Authority of England and Scotland.
One has to study the naming patterns for the Gaelic communities for that
era. It was common for all individuals to have the same surname as the Lord
or Host of the territory, this was common until well into the 18th century.
While those of us who bear the name McWilliams or it's variations, it is an
improbability that we are a blood relation. It is highly probable that our
ancestors were greatly influenced by these 3 main factions of the McWilliams
surname.
It is accepted that the various spellings come from the English scribes
attempting to anglicize the Gaelic version over the years. The use of Qu in
the spelling can be directly traced to the Scottish scribe attempting to
express the W in English, there is no W in the Gaelic language.
From the 16th century on the primary language in both the Highlands of
Scotland and the Ulster area was Uallans (a mixture of English and Gaelic).
One must remember that spelling in that era or time frame was dependent upon
the writer, his culture, and his educational background with phonetics being
the order of the day.
John McQuilliams
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John, Q was much used in Scots in place of W. The MacWilliams here,
http://electricscotland.com/webclans/m/macwilliam2.html
Skoosh.
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Here's the quote from Two reports of a deputation who in pursuance of the resolutions of the Court of Assistants of the Draper's Company on the 23rd of January 1817 and the 3rd of August 1818 page 9 (free on Google e-books)
By Drapers' Company (London, England)
...the larger part of this Division is in the parish of Balli- nascreen, the residue in the parish of Maghera; it appears probable that the inhabitants of it are descended from Scotch ancestors, who settled there anterior to the Reformation ; the reason for this supposition, as to the period of the settlement being formed, arises from the circumstance of the great proportion of Catho lics above that of Protestants. The difference in the appearance of the inhabitants of the Ballinascreen Division, and the Brackasliav- gallon Division, is very striking, and illus trates the well known distinction between the leading features in the Scotch and Irish cha racters.
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Yes I am trying to do my tree and I think they are from that area. The family are all catholic but they seem to all concentrate there, there are alot of them so its hard to go back.
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MacWilliam slain at the Battle of Mamgarva on the Braes of Spey, Laggan, probably the present Garva (Garbhatha-rough ford), by William the Lion.
http://scottish-places.info/counties/countyhistory19.html
Skoosh.
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https://chancery.tcd.ie/browse-circle/9
Some deBurgh and Williamson references on this link. I just entered "William" in the surname box of the "Advanced search"