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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Selous on Saturday 25 September 10 22:10 BST (UK)
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I have been unable to find a marriage for my great great grandparents Joseph 'Benham' or Benjamin Roberts and Charlotte Mead. Their first child Roseannah Charlotte Roberts was born on 9 April 1855 at 25 Litchfield Street, Soho. In the 1851 census, Joseph was a visitor living at 28 Goldsmiths Terrace, Shoreditch. Joseph was born in Hartford, Huntingdon and Charlotte in Stepney, Middlesex. Could anyone advise on which registration districts I should concentrate my efforts.
Thanks
???
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In 1851 Charlotte was married to Lewis Mead - need to do some digging as I cannot find a death for Lewis at the moment
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Hi
I can't see any Mead/Roberts marriages in Freebmd - perhaps if she was already married they didn't get married.
Jan
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1851 for 8 Portobello Lane Kensington
Lewis Mead 23 carpenter & Joiner b Weedon Northants
Charlotte 23 b Stepney
HO107 Piece 1468 Folio 836 Page 10
She was Charlotte Ann Greenfield and they married 23.5.1847 St Alphege Greenwich
Lewis does not appear on any other census after 1851 and there is no death recorded
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According to an online tree this Lewis Mead died in New South Wales Infirmary 1881. They do also have Charlotte on their tree.
Jennifer
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Charlotte is on the 1841 census - 26 Market Place Greenwich with her parents James Greenfield a Pier toll collector & mother Charlotte and a brother William aged 10
Jennifer
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Bapt. St.George in the East 3/8/1828 Charlotte Ann Greenfield parents James & Charlotte a Mariner address John St. Cornwalls Fields date of birth 24/6/1828.
Jennifer
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Some thing is not adding up here. The Charlotte Greenfield who married Lewis Mead who died in NSW also died in NSW in 1910 according to the 2 tree's on line?
Jennifer
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Hi
Lewis and Charlotte Mead (nee Greenfield) along with Emma 2 and Charles (born on journey) arrived in NSW in January 1855 on the Queen of England. The passenger list names Charlottes parents as James and Charlotte Greenfield
Andy
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I'm certain this is not my Charlotte Mead, as she and Joseph, a bootmaker, are together on the census until Joseph died on 13 March 1892. in 1861 Newington St Mary, 1871 Bermondsey, 1881 Camberwell, 1891 St Paul Deptford. Joseph died at 95 Bolina Road as did Charlotte in 1908. My grandmother Minne's wedding certificate in 1894 also list her address as 95 Bolina Road. Charlotte and Joseph had 7 children - Rosannah Charlotte 1855, Thomas 1858, William Henry 1860, Joseph Benham and Julia in 1866, Amelia 'Minnie' 1870 and Bertha in 1874.
I have checked Free BMD for their marriage but no luck so far - I thought it might help to view the original registration records, but I don't know which registry offices I should try
Thanks
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Selous, this may sound a silly question but where has the information on Charlott's maiden name come from? I've been assuming that you have a copy of one of the children's birth certificates that lists both parents? Is it possible, for instance, that she was always known as Charlotte but may have been married / baptised under her Sunday name?
Do you have dates of birth, or even years of birth, for Joseph and Charlotte from the census returns or from Joseph's death certificate?
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Yes, I have three including their first child Rosannah Charlotte who was born on 9 April 1855 at 25 Litchfield Street Soho - maiden name definitely given as Mead on all three
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Thanks, it probably did sound a daft question but sometimes we all make assumptions.
p.s. have now found the entry in 1881, when Joseph is 56 and Charlotte 53. Based on that Joseph was born in Harford approx 1826 and Charlotte in Stepney in Middlesex approx 1828. Shame it's not the other way around as it would be a lot easier to locate a Charlotte in 1828 in Hartford than Stepney!
corrected: I can take 53 from 81 and had the right answer in my head - just not on the keyboard!
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Sorry Maggie, posted too quick
On Joseph's death certificate his age is given as 69 years - daughter Minnie is the witness and for Charlotte her age is given as 78 - widow of Joseph Benham Roberts - daughter Julia is the witness.
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Having been tripped up by my own typo, I'll try again.
Possible baptism for Charlotte Mead
Daughter of John Mead, Leather Draper, and Charlotte Mead
Tower Hamlets, Entry No 373, 26 February 1827.
No guarantees, but as the marriage record is proving elusive I wondered if it might be worth approaching it from another angle
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I am happy to try any approach - I'm just less confident about how to proceed without the wedding certificate evidence of Charlotte's fathers name - but I will look at the 1841 census possibilities for Charlotte Meads born 1827 - although if she was born in 1827, I guess she could have been living away from home by 1841.
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Onthe pilot.familysearch (free) site I've found a family in Hartford in Huntingdon whose children are being baptised in the 1820s. They are Thomas Roberts and Anna.
Joseph, baptised 30 November 1822, so his death certificate age is correct but his census age may not be
Elizabeth, baptised 6 August 1826
Rosanna, baptised 1 June 1828 - a name that is repeated in Joseph/Charlotte's family
Sorry that hasn't helped with the marriage record, but at least it gives you Joseph's parents and sisters if you didn't have them before.
Your last post - I agree with you. The biggest mistakes I've made were nearly always based on my roaring ahead following assumptions, and ones I've got right are usually painstaking step by step.
Looking at the 1851 census, the Charlotte I found baptised in 1827 is the only one coming up in London of the right age, living with her parents John and Charlotte. She is married and listed as Charlotte Jones, with a daughter age 1 month named Sarah Anne.
This gives a few possibilities, the first of which is that this may be a giant red herring, and not related to your family at all.
The second is that Charlotte married and had a little girl then was widowed, or maybe even the little girl died.
Would it be worth trying to see if there are any records of a marriage between Joseph Roberts and Charlotte Jones? If it was a shortlived marriage it's possible and Charlotte's maiden name, for all the children's birth records, would still have been Mead.
- added - Good theory, but I've just done a quick search and a Joseph Roberts to Charlotte Jones marriage isn't coming up either. Sorry
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Thanks Maggie - similarly to Charlotte, I am nervous of deciding on Joseph's ancestry without a wedding certificate - I had found the baptism on Ancestry but not those of his potential siblings, so thank you for this helpful additional info - I can pursue this line back and see if it helps confirm any other facts - I have wondered about the Benjamin/Benham middle name that is periodically/interchangably used. Joseph and Charlotte's third son was named Joseph Benham in 1866 and as I mentioned on Charlotte's death certificate she is the widow of Joseph Benham Robets master bootmaker -if that comes through further research of this new lead that would be a useful confirmation.
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Good luck with it all, sorry there've been no instant magic wands so far
With regard to the baptism in Hartford, Huntingdon, I think you can take it as a very strong possibility based on not just the fact that the year and details fit Joseph himself, but because of the use of Rosanna for one of his sisters, and he and Caroline then using it for one of their daughters. Hartford is not a huge place, and it would be a massive co-incidence if there was no link at all, though they might be families of brothers with the two Josephs cousins?
In the 1841 census Thomas is listed as 45, but that is the 'rounding' census. So is his wife, who is listed as Hannah. That's worth bearing in mind as Hannah and Ann can be interchangeable so any records could use either. Rosannah is at home age 13 so it is the same family, and Thomas is a Gardener. Thomas and Hannah were both born in county.
In the 1851 there seem to be just the two of them, and this time Hannah has been transcribed as Hannes. Their ages are given as both being 58, which would give them a birth date around 1793. Hannah's birthplace is listed as Stirtloe, which I think is near St Neots, but Thomas's as Distington, or that's the transcription, and that defeats me because it definitely says Distington, Huntingdon, but the only one I can find is in Cumbria. I've had a look at the original image, and I think it actually reads Dodington, which would make more sense. You need some local expertise on that.
Added: the 1861 is more clear - Diddington in Huntingdonshire for Thomas, and Stirtloe (Buckden) for Hannah. No luck on my hopes that grandchildren might visit from London and provide you with a link! In 1861 Thomas has decided to go up in the world and lists himself as a Greengrocer and they both give their birth as 63, not 68, so their birth records could be anywhere between 1793 and 1798,
Sadly for Thomas by 1871 he is 'inmate pauper' still consistently giving Diddington as his birthplace. There are a lot of inmates and some 4 pages back it gives the address for the first time as 'Carter's Yard' in Huntingdon but it has to be the workhouse or similar, though the word is not shown.
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Thanks Maggie for all your help.
Found the baptism and census records as you described, plus probable deaths for Thomas and Hannah on FreeBMD (1878 and 1877) and probable baptism for Thomas on 19 August 1792 to another Thomas and and Elizabeth in Diddington plus a brother Joseph.
I might not have found the elusive marriage, but I have taken my Tree further.
Many thanks