RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: LizzieW on Saturday 25 September 10 19:48 BST (UK)
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I've found out that a will my 10 x g.grandfather made dated 1597, is available at Ipswich Record Office on microfilm. They are happy to print it out for me at £1/page A4 or £1.50/page A3, which they recommend as it is written in old English and would be easier to read. So far, so good. But they say the will is 25 pages long. :o
Is it usual for someone to have a will that is 25 pages long, bearing in mind that his own father's will dated 1558 was only about 3 pages of A4, or do you think there must be other wills on the same microfilm?
I already know that my 10 x g.grandfather left his manor house to his wife and made her responsible for bringing up the children , which are named, of his (mentally deficient) daughter and her husband, to ensure they had sufficient meat, drink, clothes and lodgings. Also he willed that on the death of his wife, the manor house should go to his daughter's eldest son.
I'm sure there is much more in the will, as he owned lots of land and property, but 25 pages?
Lizzie
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I've received one today from the probate service and its 8 pages long in small, illegible writing so it could be.
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If it's 25 pages long in Old English handwriting, it's going to take me ages to decipher it all, I'm sure I'll be putting whole paragraphs on Roots for some clever people to help me.
Lizzie
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The one I have is from 1890s and I can only pick out a few names.
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It is possible if he had a lot of assets.
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hi , i would recheck you are not getting several unrelated wills ..
Then with luck you might be getting bills and accounts as i did in Kendal library but i think it unlikely surely . an ancestor of mine .. i will just drop this in lol.. was a duke and he was loaded , only had three children but his will i got from the archives was only about 5 pages and that was all in Spanish .... you might be getting a bonus of a lot of papers . recheck . good luck ... i also have a lot of letters and after a very short time you will get into the eye/ brain swing of things esp if you have vague knowledge of people names and places ... take your time and enjoy .. ha ha with one that long it might say the 10= grandchild inherits . wouldn't that be nice.
frederickay .
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I do know that he mentions the names of his 7 grandchildren, which I already know.
I'll check with Ipswich on Monday that all the 25 pages related to my 10 x g.grandfather and not to other people as well.
Lizzie
ps. Coombs - he did have a lot of assets, a manor house, other large houses and cottages with tenants, as well as land etc.
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I've seen PCC Wills that long but they tended to be of titled families. Mind you if he was making provisions for family to benefit but the actually property to be held by others, that may be why its so long. Also if its an original Will as opposed to a registered copy, I've seen them leave large spaces between lines which may account for the large number of pages involved.
Hadn't realised that Ipswich charge £1 per page to print off Wills on A4, its a shame a researcher we know doesn't go there since I'm after some Wills myself. >:(
Nicola
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Could an inventory be attached? That might be quite lengthy if he had a lot of assets. Lucky you if so!
Anne
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I've sent an e-mail to Ipswich record office, so hope they reply fairly soon, then at least I'll know what I'm paying for.
Lizzie
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Well, I got a reply from Ipswich Record Office, which states:
The will is not easy to read but I have had a quick look through and it certainly looks as if all 25 pages are part of John's will. Perhaps the fact that he was a "gent" meant that his affairs were particularly complicated.
If a member of the archives thinks the will is not easy to read, how am I going to find it ??? ???
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well i think it will be very exciting .. print it off .. then that makes it easier to study over time but if it is on line you will be able to enlarge etc . imagine all that you r are going to fin d. pen and paper ,glasses and a glass of wine and or coffee , magnifying glass. wish it was me . Jan ..
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oh go for it Lizzie!
Wills of that era are never easy to read, don't forget our deciphering board ;D ;D ;D Plenty of rootschatters love a good puzzle! ;D ;D ;D
I don't think I could bear the suspense if it was me, I'd want to be nosey know what he had to span 25 pages!
Take care though, some of wording can be quite waffling. I've got some very long marriage settlements and other legal stuff and they are hard to read because of the waffle and repetitiveness, but maybe thats just my OH's family..... life was/is never simple with them ::)
Jenny
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I'm sure you'll gradually get your eye in Lizzie! Do let us know why it's so long!
Anne
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I have a tip for making the writing clearer.
Don't ask me why it works but it does.
If you have a blue coloured plastic see through folder, place it over the writing , it becomes a little clearer.
I discovered this in the summer while trying to read one of mine and accidently dropped in underneath my blue glassed garden table and saw that the words were alot clearer so I tried the folder and it does the same.
Hope this helps
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It will be printed off, as it is on microfilm at Ipswich Archives and they will photocopy it for me at £1 per page onto A4, or £1.50 per page onto A3, which is what they recommend to make it easier to read. Of course, if it is on A3, I'm not sure I'd be able to scan it onto the computer, which is where it would need to be for me to ask for Rootschatters help.
Strange you should say that about blue colour plastic dizziebee, as I had a pdf typed list of dates sent to me yesterday which weren't particularly clear (nothing to do with family history) and I accidentally clicked something and the page turned blue and was much easier to read.
I already know the gist of some of what is in the will, which is why I want to know the full contents.
There are many references to my ancestors of the period 1500-1700 shown on National Archives, but I'm sure most of the documents would be in Latin, so I think I'll have to ignore those on the grounds that a) I couldn't afford to purchase all the documents and b) I wouldn't be able to understand them.
I do know of other wills that might be of interest to me but they are not listed on TNA, so goodness knows where they are. As I have full translations of most of them, I'm not too worried about that, although it would be nice to see the originals (or photocopies of them).
There are other ancestors who ought to have made wills, which are not listed on TNA, so I'll have to hunt them down next. For instance one of the grandson's of the man who has the 25 page will, was left a cottage and lands in his grandfather's will, so surely he would have left a will. He was my direct ancestor and I'd like to know if his 8th child, my direct ancestor was left anything. It could be, of course, that this was the time the lands, buildings and money went to the first son, with the result that my direct ancestors became poorer and poorer, with my 2 x g.grandfather being a labourer until he died aged 77 and his wife a charwoman. ;D
Lizzie
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I've never come across one that long, but I do have a PCC will that's 12 pages long. The testator (my 4G grandfather, IIRC) was reasonably wealthy and the owner of a number of dwellings (it's these and their contents that take up most of the space), but not titled or possessed of hundreds of acres of land or anything. I can imagine, therefore, that a significant member of the aristocracy may well have had a will of 25 pages.
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Worth a shot Lizzie, one for rootschat rather than professionals, would cost the earth. Sometimes with some of these ol wills I think the term was circumlocution, it seems as though the person drawing it up was paid by the word. I have some later ones from the early 18th century, and a lot of the wording is simply meaningless padding.
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I can imagine, therefore, that a significant member of the aristocracy may well have had a will of 25 pages.
As far as I know he wasn't a member of the aristocracy, at least as I think of them today. The History of Suffolk Families calls him a "Gentleman" and stated that he had £500/£600 a year income. According to National Archives £600 in 1580 would have the spending worth today of £89,586. So a very good income, but I'm sure today's aristocracy have an income of more than that a year.
Roger, maybe you're right and the person drawing it up, knowing of his wealth made it longer than necessary, however, my guess is that a lot of it is to do with ensuring that as his only heir my 9 x g.grandmother was mentally deficient from birth (I have no idea what form that took) her children would get his assets rather than her. I would imagine she was what we used to call "Simple" as she was obviously able to marry and have children - 8 in all.
Lizzie
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Lizzie, Though I have seen the case I previously referred to, which appeared to add meaningless verbiage to the will, hence payment by the word, it does seem to me that since then the English langauge has developed quite a lot, and is now capable of much more concise expression than it was in the 18th century. Probably it had made a similar advance in the prev ious two centuries?
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Possibly Roger, a bit like the French language where, because they don't have as many words as the English language they have to use more words to express the same thing than we do.
Lizzie
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Thanks Lizzie, an answer at last to why French documents are almost always longer than the English version. I thought they just liked talking or writing!
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I know you cna't compare monetry values but £500-600 was quite a lot of money. Acccording to the calculator I use:
In 2008, £600 0s 0d from 1597 is worth
£75,800.00 using the retail price index.
£1,210,000.00 using average earnings.
All the Elizabethan wills I've read tend to be a lot shorter than later ones - the writing is smaller for a start and there wasn't so much gobbledegook in them - but that sounds VERY long.
Carole
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hi my possibile relation William jones father of william brasier jones from suffolk was worth 200 000 :o :o pounds in 1800. wow and i think he wasa self made man in malt brewery to begin with . AND his will isnt that long but there was a court battle over it which i should organise to get papers from ..
another reletive the Duke of Sotomayer his will wasnt so long either but i still think lucky you . wonderful.. let us know if you find captain bluebeards tresure at the very least .. jan
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Maybe I'll find I'm descended from William the Conqueror like lots of celebs on WDYTYA ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Lizzie, Talking of aristocratic pay now, I think they come in all categories, from the impoverished to the Billionaires! EdwardVII was involved in a case concerning gambling, where the respondent, I think an army captain or major had a yearly income of £45,000; this in the 1890s.For comparison, in the 1990s I was involved in an enquiry over how an ordinary rail worker managed to achieve a yearly income of over £45,000. Can't give any further details but I think it puts into perspective the income that Edward VII's acquaintance had.
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If you have a blue coloured plastic see through folder, place it over the writing , it becomes a little clearer.
Funnily enough this was mentioned the other day by a friend who works in an opticians. Apparently blue doesn't work for everyone, so try other colours if necessary.
Linda