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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: Mrs Dalloway on Friday 24 September 10 22:06 BST (UK)
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Hi. I'm looking for the marriage record of Harry Brooks Howson born somewhere in England Feb 3 1859, and a Canadian girl by the name of Margaret Annabella Baker born 20 Jan 1865.
I know that they were living in Toronto in 1901, but by the 1911 census Harry was dead. Their first child was born in 1896: Francis Gilbert Howson. He fought in the First World War.
Any information on either person would be greatly appreciated, but especially their marriage record.
Thanks, Clarissabell
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Hi Clarissabell, here's the marriage:
Harry Brooks Howson b. England age 33
Father: James Gilbert Howson
Mother: Elizabeth Brooks Smith Howson
Spouse: Margaret Annabella Baker
Spouse age: 28
Spouse Birthplace: Hamilton
Spouse Father: Francis Baker
Spouse Mother: Sarah G Baker
Marriage date: 29 June 1892
Marriage Location: Simcoe
Jool
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Hi again, another marriage record has their marriage place as Barrie, Ontario
Jool
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Hi Jool - thanks a million! Yes, the Baker family lived in Barrie.. how curious. That is just wonderful! Back another generation :)
Enjoy the week end!
Clarissabell
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Do you need any of the Canadian censuses? I have just found Harry and his mother in 1891. Shout if you need them.
Jool
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Oh yes please! :)
Clarissabell
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1891. District 119 East Toronto, Sub District 22 St. David's Ward.
Fredk. Grundy, head, b, 1857 Ontario, Real Estate Agent
Annie H. Grundy, wife, b. 1857 England
Harry Howson, Lodger, b. 1859 England, Accountant. Religion Church of England
Elizabeth Howson, Lodger, b. abt. 1834 England, widowed. Religion Church of England
Alice Carrington, Domestic, b. abt. 1868 England
I'll have a mooch about to see what else I can find.
Jool ;D
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Brilliant Jools... I'll try to keep up!
Everything or anything at all would be most welcome. :)
Thanks a million.
Clarissabell
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Individual Immigration records for the family from Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s
All Listed as: Arrival Year: 1871. Place: Toronto, Canada
Harry Howson, b. abt. 1859
James Howson b. abt. 1829
Elizabeth Howson b. abt. 1833
Jool
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Ahh... thanks Jools. I wonder what made them pack up and leave... a little family heading off on a big adventure together. Harry married and both his children died childless... :( He was a banker, so they must have landed on their feet, so to speak.
Your research tonight has been just great. Their story is unfolding before my eyes. Thanks!
Clarissabell
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Do you have access to the UK census records? I have found them in 1861 in England but don't want to spoil your fun if you want to search yourself :D
Jool
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No Jools, I dont :( So keep 'em coming, you are playing a blinder!
Clarissabell
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OK, here they are in 1861
28 Brech Road, Everton, Liverpool
James Gilbert Howson, head, b. abt. 1832 Newcastle, Staffordshire. Foreign Trust Merchant
Elizabeth Brooks Smith Howson, wife, b. abt. 1833 Liverpool
Henry Brooks Howson, son, b. abt. 1859, Everton
Lizzie Hardley Howson, daur, b. abt. 1860, Everton (age 7 months)
Elizabeth Coghlan, servant, b. abt. 1840, Ireland
James' job sounds quite important, perhaps that is what took them overseas.
I have looked for an immigration record for young Lizzie but can't see her. The immigration records I posted above were individual so there may have been others travelling with them.
Jool
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In 1851 James Howson is lodging with a Scott family at Upper Baker Street, West Derby, Liverpool
James G Howson, b. abt. 1832, Newcastle, Staffs. Merchant's Clerk (fruit)
There is also an Ellen B Howson there listed as visitor, maybe his sister. b. abt. 1828 Newcastle, Staffs
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Wow... Harry was born in Liverpool! That is great to know. You have discovered so much about him in so short a time. I hope little Lizzie survived. Imagine a household where all the women were called Elizabeth :) It must have been confusing. All the records I have found for this branch show that the men were either bankers, clerks or accountants... There is so much information here. Great detective work ;D
Thanks again,
Clarissabell
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Hi, heres a bit more
James Gilbert Howson
Birth date: abt. 1831
Christening date: 11 Sept 1831
Place: Newcastle-under-Lyne, Staffordshire
Father: William Howson
Mother Sarah
Marriage JFM quarter West Derby, Lancashire
James Gilbert Howson & Elizabeth Brooks Smith Howarth
Jool
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A bit more?? That's back another generation!!! Brilliant Jools. I've got to copy this down and add it to my family tree tomorrow. I am soo glad I put up this post.
You are a good egg for helping me out.
Thank y o u ;D
Clarissabell
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You're welcome, I enjoy a good mooch ;D I'll see what else there is to be found on the Howsons, then we'll tackle the Bakers. I'll try to have a look over the weekend.
Cheers
Jool
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This could be William & Sarah's marriage:
William Howson married Sarah Brooks
10 Nov 1824 Newcastle-under-Lyne, Staffs
Strange that James' wife Elizabeth had a middle name Brooks too ???
Jool
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Oooohhhh :o Just found some trees on Ancestry with this family going back further ;D I'll pick out the details and get back to you
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William Howson 1803-1862 born in Stone, Staffordshire, he was a Grocer.
His wife was Sarah Moreton Brooks 1804-1879 born Muccleston, Staffordshire
William & Sarahs children were:
Ellen Brooks Howson b. 1827 (she must be the one visiting James in 1851 census)
William Moreton Howson b. 1829
James Gilbert Howson b. 1831
Hannah Howson b. 1833
Elizabeth Howson b. 1836
Clement Howson 1837-1866
Uriah Brooks Howson 1839-1839
Sarah Howson b. 1840
Bernard Howson b, 1842
Anne Jane Howson b. 1844
Margaret Howson b. 1846
William's father was James Howson, his mother was Mary.
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James Gilbert Howson & Elizabeth must have had more children after they arrived in Canada. Here's the marriage of one of their children.
Florence Ada Howson, age 23
born abt. 1864 Toronto
Father: James Gilbert Howson
Mother: Elizabeth Brook Howson
Spouse: Ernest John Charles Norris
Spouse age: 24
Spouse birth place: London, England
Spouse Father: John Sanderson Norris
Spouse Mother: Hannah Rebecca Norris
Marriage date: 21 June 1887
Location: York, Ontario
If Florence was born in Toronto in 1864, the family must have arrived there before the 1871 immigration record I posted earlier (perhaps they went back to England for a visit in 1871)
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Here's another marriage:
Annie Haworth Howson, age 32
B. abt. 1857 Liverpool
Father: James Gilbert Howson
Mother: Elizabeth Brookspaith Howson (think this should be Brooks Smith)
Spouse: Frederick Grundy, age 31
Spouse birth place: Gorishanding, Ontario
Spouse father: Oswald Grundy
Spouse mother: Elizabeth Grundy
Marriage date: 12 June 1889
Place: York, Ontario
Aaahhh - Remember the 1891 Canada Census when Harry and his mother were lodging wth Fredk. & Annie Grundy - this is them :D
Annie wasn't on 1861 Liverpool census with mom, dad & Harry because she was staying with her Grandparents in Newcastle, will post details tomorrow.
I have found her on the same 1871 immigration list as mom, dad & Harry.
Past my bedtime :D
Cheers, Jool
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Jools (aka Dectective-Supremo)... I awake to find you have uncovered a whole family tree! How did you do it??
So Harry's daughter Madeline was named Madeline Howarth .... When she was referred to as Madeline Howarth in her obituary, I thought "Howarth" was a mistaken spelling of her surname (Howson) - but in fact it was a middle name. She was named for her great grandmother:Elizabeth Brooks Smith Howarth. I wonder is there any connection to the place, Howarth... where the famous Bronte sisters lived in Yorkshire...
Look at those classic Victorian names...Clement, Elizabeth, Uriah Howson - that's like something out of Dickens.
I have to write all this out in a chart to really grasp the intricacies of the relationships. Really amazing sleuthing. There's no place for these Howsons to hide!
Just wonderful :D
Thank you !!
Clarissabell
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Hi Clarissabell, I'm so glad you're pleased with the findings, it makes it all worth while. In answer to your question, "how did you do it", with a lot of help from Ancestry ;) and not giving up when you think you can't find something.
I think the place of birth of Toronto for Florence Howson on her marriage record is incorrect, she is on the 1871 Canada census as born England. This means the family most likely did emigrate in 1871.
Here they are in 1871 living in District 46 West Toronto.
Elizabeth Howson, widowed, b. abt. 1833 England
Annie Howson, b. abt. 1857 England
Harris (must be Harry) Howson, b. abt. 1859 England
Florence Howson, b. abt. 1864 ENGLAND
Eliza Howarth, widowed, b. abt. 1798 England (not Elizabeth's mother, she is Sarah. How is Eliza related?)
Elizabeth is listed as widowed, so sadly it seems James Gilbert Howson must have died very shortly after they arrived in Canada, if the 1871 immigration is correct. I'll see if I can find a death record.
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I think the 1871 immigration date is thrown into confusion again ::) as James Howson died in 1869 in Ontario.
James Gilbert Hawson (spelling?)
Died 30 Nov 1869
Age 38
Profession: Book Keeper
Where Born: Staffordshire, England
Cause of Death: Diseased digestive organs, 5 months illness
Informant: R.G. Banks, 44 Gerrard Street East
Registered: 4 Dec 1869
County: York
There seems to be 2 versions of the 1871 Canadian Census, one listed as my previous post and another which shows the same as above but but they are living with a "Banks" family headed by R.G. BANKS, the same name as the informant on James' death record. To add to the confusion, Florence is born England on the one census and Ontario on the other ???
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OK, this should sort out the immigration date (I'll make my mind up soon won't I ;D)
The 1911 Census of Canada states Elizabeth Brooks Smith Howson's year of immigration was 1861. So it seems Florence b. 1864 would have been born Canada after all.
1911:
Frederick Grundy, b. July 1857 Ontario, head,
Annie H Grundy, b. Feb 1857 England, wife,
Maude E Grundy, b. Nov 1892 Ontario, daur,
E.B.S. Howson, b. Jan 1833 England, mother-in-law,
Mary E Banks, b. Nov 1843 England, single, cousin (there's the connection with the Banks family, Mary was the daughter of the R.G. Banks on James' death record)
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Elizabeth B S Howson's death record
Elizabeth Brooks Smith Howson
Born 20 Jan 1833 England
Died 16 Dec 1911
Place of Death: looks like 2 Albertue? Ave, Eglinton
Father: William Haworth? (Howorth) b. England
Mother: Sarah S Brooks b. England
Primary cause of death: Arterio Sclerosis . Duration 3 years.
Immediate cause of death: Cerebral Haemorrhage. Duration 2 days
This should keep you busy with your tree for a while. Have to go shopping now or we won't be eating this weekend ;D
Jool
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WOW... you have been busy! It's all there in the records... 2 censuses with the same people? I have long wanted to use this smiley.... ??? How could that happen? It's a growing web. They really left a paper trail behind them. But I think you have cracked it. I am not surprised to find a connection to a family named BANKS... named according to their profession no doubt. I think I will have to start a whole new notebook on this branch alone.
Brilliant ;D
Harry's daughter Madeline Haworth Howson was married to William Arthur Burrows in Toronto in 1927. I could never find the marriage record, but I was looking for Madeline Brooks - as I thought she was called.... perhaps you could do a quick search for it now that we know her proper name?
I hope you bought yourself a nice treat at the shops - you deserve it, for a job well done!
Regards,
Clarissabell
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Jool ( just realised I have been calling you JoolS all along - sorry..) I see that the Ontario marriage records end in 1926 on Ancestry, so dont bother trying to find the marriage of Arthur and Madeline in Toronto.
Thanks,
Clarissabell :)
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Hi again Clarissabell, I've been too busy get online all week but I'm back on the case again (I was getting withdrawal symptoms :D)
I don't know if you've seen it, but there's a photo of a headstone attached to a tree on Ancestry. It's at Greenwood Cemetery, Owen Sound, Canada, the inscription reads:
WILLIAM ARTHUR BURROWS
1861-1941
MARGARET A HOWSON
MOTHER OF MADELINE BURROWS
1865-1954
MADELINE 1897-1981
Jool
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Here's Margaret Annabella Baker with parents and siblings in 1891 - along with her maternal Grandmother (another generation ;D). Living at Barrie, Simcoe North, Ontario.
Francis Baker, head, b. 1831 Ireland, Father's birthplace England, Mother's birthplace Ireland.
Sarah G Baker, wife, b. 1838 Ontario, Father & Mother born Ireland.
Thos W Baker, son, b. 1861 Ontario
Margaret A Baker, daur, b. 1865 Ontario
Anna G Baker, daur, b. 1871 Ontario
Mary F Baker, daur, b. 1873 Ontario
Martha Spence, mother-in-law, b. abt. 1802 Ireland, widowed, Father & Mother born Ireland.
Edith Abel, b. 1874 England, domestic.
Occupation of Francis and son Thos looks like Timber Merchant.
Forgot to mention, the headstone in previous post has a circular inscription at the top "Woodmen of the World Memorial".
Jool
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Here's the family in 1871, with yet another even older Spence lady. Living in Nelson, Halton, Ontario. Unfortunately this census doesn't show relationship to head of household.
Francis Baker, b. 1831 Ireland. Accountant
Sarah G Baker, b. 1839 Ontario
Thomas W Baker, b. 1861 Ontario
Martha F Baker, b. 1863 Ontario
Margaret A Baker, b. 1865 Ontario
Francis S Baker, b. 1868 Ontario
Ann G Baker, b. 1870 (11 months) Ontario
Ann Spence, b. abt. 1791 Ireland
Margaret Britton, b. abt. 1811 Ireland, widowed
Mary Erwin, b. 1852 Ontario. Servant
Jool
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This could be the death of Francis Baker.
Ontario, Canada, Deaths 1869-1936
Francis Baker
Death date: 3 March 1901
Death location : Muskoka
Age: 70
Male
Est. birth year: 1831
Birth location: Ireland
Address: 693 Shadina? Ave, Toronto
Occupation: Timberman
Married
Cause of death: Drowning
How sad.
Jool
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OK, I think I've sussed out the Spence branch.
Sarah G Baker's maiden name was Spence. Her father was William Spence b. abt. 1801 Ireland, her mother was Martha Spence (nee ?) b. abt. 1802 Ireland. Ann(e) Spence was probably William's sister.
1851 Census, Nelson, Halton, Canada West.
William Spence, b. Ireland, farmer. Age next birthday 51 (he is listed on separate page to rest of family, not in sequence ??)
Martha Spence, b. Ireland, Housekeeper. Age next birthday 50
William Spence. b. Canada, Labourer, Age n.b. 17
Sarah Georgina Spence, Age n.b. 14
Robert Spence, b. Canada, Age n.b. 10
Anne Spence b. Ireland, Age n.b. 60
1861 Census, Nelson, Halton, Canada West.
William Spence, b. Ireland, farmer, married. Age next birthday 60
Martha Spence, b. Ireland, married. Age n.b. 59
Anne Spence b. Ireland, single. Age n.b. 71
William Spence jnr. b. Canada, Labourer, single, Age n.b. 26
Robert Spence, b. Canada, Labourer, single, Age n.b. 19
I have found a death record for a William Spence who sadly died Christmas day 1894 in Huron, Ontario, age 89 b. Fermanagh Ireland, a bit difficult to read but I'll have another look tomorrow.
Jool
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Hi Jool! Hope you had a great weekend - this genealogy lark is certainly addictive! Yes, Iasked a local man to take that photo for me and I passed it onto that researcher. People have been so helpful! Arthur was 65 when he married Madeline - who was about 30! So she outlived him by 40 years. Such a shame there were no children. THere were no children either with his first wife, Ida May Doyle. He did bring a neice, Mary J Neil from Donegal, to Canada and she married Walter Sawtell, a banker from Quebec. She sent for her two brothers to follow her to canada - Alexander Neil (b. 1891) and William Arthur (b. 1907). I found the immigration record for them, (1922 and 1920 respectively) but lost them after that. According to Arthur's obituary, Mary J Sawtell (Neil) had a daughter Helen at the funeral with her, but I couldnt find anything about Helen...
Clarissabell
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Here they are in 1871 living in District 46 West Toronto.
Elizabeth Howson, widowed, b. abt. 1833 England
Annie Howson, b. abt. 1857 England
Harris (must be Harry) Howson, b. abt. 1859 England
Florence Howson, b. abt. 1864 ENGLAND
Eliza Howarth, widowed, b. abt. 1798 England (not Elizabeth's mother, she is Sarah. How is Eliza related?)[/quote]
The marriage for William Howson and Sarah Brooks was for the parents of James Gilbert Howson rather than his wife.
Eliza / Elizabeth Haworth IS the mother of both Elizabeth Brooks Smith AND Marianne (Haworth) Banks --- Elizabeth B. S. Haworth was with them in 1851 on Mount Vernon Road in Everton, LAN.
::Robert Greenhow Banks Head 33 Edgehill, Lancashire, Seed Crusher
::Marianne Banks Wife 33 Haighton, Yorkshire
::Marian Banks Dau 10 Liverpool, Lancashire
::Mary Elizh Banks Dau 7 East Hill, Lancashire
::Florence D Banks Dau 3 East Hill, Lancashire
::William Howarth Banks Son 2 East Hill, Lancashire
::George Wilson Banks Son 0 East Hill, Lancashire
::E B S Howarth Sis-in-Law 18 Liverpool, Lancashire
::Jane Elvy Widow, Nurse 49 Dorsetshire
::Kate Bussell Married, Seamstress 28 Ireland
::Mary Ann Marter Unmarr, Household Servant 24 Ireland
The MOTHER, Elizabeth Haworth was with daughter Marianne and husband Robert Greenhow Banks in 1841 -- not sure where daughter E. B. S. was yet:
BANKS Robert Greenhow Head 43 Seed Crusher Lancashire Wavertree
BANKS Marianne Wife 43 Yorkshire Haigh House
BANKS Marian Dau U 20 Lancashire Liverpool
BANKS Arthur Francis Son U 19 Seed Crusher Lancashire Edge Hill
BANKS Mary Elizabeth Dau 17 Lancashire Edge Hill
BANKS Greenhow Son 15 Lancashire Edge Hill
BANKS Florence Dunbar Dau 13 Lancashire Edge Hill
BANKS William Haworth Son 12 Lancashire Edge Hill
BANKS George Wilson Son 10 Lancashire Edge Hill
HAWORTH Elizabeth Moth-Law Wid 63 Lancashire Heywyd
ROBERTS Elizabeth Servnt U 20 Servant -
HAMMOND Ann Servnt U 21 Servant Derbyshire
Here's both of them in the home of Marianne Haworth Banks and Robert Greenhow Banks in St James Ward in Toronto, Ontario, Canada:
Robert G Banks M 53 England
Mary A Banks F 53 England
Marion Banks F 30 England
Arthur F Banks M 29 England
Mary E Banks F 27 England
Greenhow Banks M 25 England
William H Banks M 20 England
George W Banks M 22 England
Florence Banks F 23 England
Elizabeth Haworth F 73 England - her age is likely "off" because she was already 63 in 1841
Elizabeth Howson F 38 England (dau of Elizabeth Howarth)
Annie Howson F 14 England
Harry Howson M 12 England
Florence Howson F 6 O
Ann Clarkson F 22 England
Here's where I found the name of Marianne and Elizabeth Brooks Smith Haworth's father:
Marriage: 28 May 1839 St Bride, Toxteth (Liverpool), Lancashire, England [1]
Robert Greenhow Banks - Full, Oil Manufacturer, Bachelor, Myrtle Street Liverpool
Marianne Haworth - Full, Spinster, Cazneau Street Liverpool
Groom's Father: Abraham Banks, Oil Manufacturer
Bride's Father: William Haworth, Gentleman
Witness: Ann Jane Chalmer; Abraham Banks, Jr.
Married by Licence by: Robt. Davies Off. Minister
Register: Marriages 1837 - 1842, Page 77, Entry 154
Source: LDS Film 1546289
I'm not related in any way but began helping someone last evening and was having a great time trying to piece it all together ... am still trying to find more :)
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1871 in Toronto.
Robert G Banks M 53 England
Mary A Banks F 53 England
Marion Banks F 30 England
Arthur F Banks M 29 England
Mary E Banks F 27 England
Greenhow Banks M 25 England
William H Banks M 20 England
George W Banks M 22 England
Florence Banks F 23 England
Elizabeth Haworth F 73 England - her age is correct -- turns out if was "off" in the 1841 Census
Elizabeth Howson F 38 England
Annie Howson F 14 England
Harry Howson M 12 England
Florence Howson F 6 O
Ann Clarkson F 22 England
Here's where I found the name of Marianne Haworth's father:
Marriage: 28 May 1839 St Bride, Toxteth (Liverpool), Lancashire, England [1]
Robert Greenhow Banks - Full, Oil Manufacturer, Bachelor, Myrtle Street Liverpool
Marianne Haworth - Full, Spinster, Cazneau Street Liverpool
Groom's Father: Abraham Banks, Oil Manufacturer
Bride's Father: William Haworth, Gentleman
Witness: Ann Jane Chalmer; Abraham Banks, Jr.
Married by Licence by: Robt. Davies Off. Minister
Register: Marriages 1837 - 1842, Page 77, Entry 154
Source: LDS Film 1546289
At Elizabeth's marriage to James Howson in 1856 at St Chrysostom in Everton, Lancashire, her father was listed as William Haworth, occupation Gentleman. Witnesses were William Mouton Howson and Sarah Anne Banks. Details were found on FindMyPast.com
In 1852, she was simply listed as Elizabeth Brooks Smith (as if her surname was SMITH) when she was a witness at the marriage of Robert Greenhow Banks' brother Jonathan ---
'''JONATHAN BANKS' MARRIAGE RECORD'''
::Marriage: 7 Oct 1852 St Mary the Virgin, West Derby, Lancashire, England
::Jonathan Banks - full, Commercial Clerk, Bachelor, Holly Street
::Mary Ann Strong Hale - minor, Spinster, Gloucester Place
::Groom's Father: Abraham Banks, Oil Merchant
::Bride's Father: Edward John Hale, Clerk for the Dock Tenders
::Witness: John Banks, Jnr.; Elizabeth S. Hale; Elizabeth Brooks Smith; Jas. Eastwood
::Witness: Mary Shaw Banks; J. Howarth
::Married by Licence by: Frederick Parry Off. Min.
::Additional Witnesses: A. Brane; Jas. B. Howson: Sarah A. Banks; Harriet Thomas.
::Register: Marriages 1837 - 1868, Page 56, Entry 112
::Source: LDS Film 1546070
Has anyone been able to locate her baptism record or where she was in the 1841 Census?
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Thank you so much for all of this information! It's been a few years since I delved into this side of the family. I'll have to jump back in over Christmas.
Regards, Michelle
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I hope you find some of the information helpful :D