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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: johnat on Thursday 23 September 10 00:48 BST (UK)
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OK, have a DC for Joseph, which states that he died 20 July 1907 at "Liverpool Asylum" from "cancer of the face" at 82 years of age. He'd been in hospital since 25 May 1907.
Thing is that he was married to Ann(ie) and they had 2 children [Thomas b:1862 and Mary b:1864] but she'd remarried in 1869. So ... no access to divorce details from that time, and no record of his admission to the asylum (that I can find, anyway).
Questions ...
Did they divorce between 1864 and 1869?
When was Joseph admitted to the asylum? Was it 25 May 1907, or sometime before that?
I am awaiting a reader card for the State Library, the National Library advises that I cannot get to their copy of the "Liverpool Asylum admissions & discharges" CD (Bruce Shepherd) and they'll not send it to my local library on"interlib loan". Bu99er!
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Thing is that he was married to Ann(ie) and they had 2 children [Thomas b:1862 and Mary b:1864] but she'd remarried in 1869.
Do you have a copy of her second marriage cert?
If they had a child born in 1864 - there is no way she would have obtained a divorce and re-married by 1869. Divorce in those days was only for the wealthy [/s]
EDIT
Sorry - just noticed this is posted on the Australia board so presume it is Liverpool Australia not Liverpool England
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Hi there,
This link indicates that divorce in NSW (1864-69) was as unlikely as in England ... with NSW divorce laws coming into effect in 1873 ...
http://www.aifs.gov.au/institute/seminars/finlay.html
Hope this helps :), its from a paper presented by Henry Finlay, BA, LLB, PhD Associate Professor of Law, University of Tasmania to a seminar at the Australian Institute of Family Studies, 20 September 2001. There's lots of information in the paper, "Divorce comes to Colonial Australia" ... and
"Australia: Bigamy and the presumption of death: a ‘People’s Divorce’ "
Cheers, JM
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Thanks, JM.
Explains why the divorce records don't start until 1873 or so.
Now, if only I could get my hands on a copy of the Asylum inmates records ... Liverpool FHS have copies for sale, but no indication on site as to how to purchase. ::)
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John...if you are in Sydney, you should be able get what you require from the State Archives of NSW. They have a reading room in the Rocks, and also Kingswood near Penrith.
I believe the assylum records might be at Kingswood.
Have you checked out their website as they do have a few indexes online. They also do a copying service, but my advice it to post an enquiry asking if anyone going to the the reading room can look the info up for you.
I have a pamphlet here from the archives outlining what is available on mental health records, and it states that only records over 110 years of age are open to public access. Therefore if he went in the hospital in 1907 then you would be waiting till 2017 for the records (if i am correct!). BUT...it does go on to say that to obtain records less than 110 yrs old you need firstly to obtain permission from the NSW Health Department. It says information about hopw to apply for access and copies of the forms to complete are online at http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/psychaccess/
Or you can contact the department of Health. Locked Mail bag 961, North Sydney NSW 2059 Attention: Manager, Corporate Records Services Ph-02 94245720.
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John.
If you are successful in your application the NSW department of Health will contact you. Step 2. is to contact the Archives five days before you intend to visit with details of the person you are looking for in the records. Step 3. would be to visit the archives bringing your permission letter with you (only person granted permission can view record).
I hope this will be of help to you.
As for the divorce (if there was one!) you could try searching the newspapers. Have you tried the national library of Australia. They have old australian newspapers online.
If you are in the state archives at any stage you could get assistance looking in the police gazettes for the period between 1864 and 1869 to see if he might have abandoned his wife, or went missing. Hence maybe the remarriage.
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Katharine,
Tamworth's a bit far from Sinney to drop in to the Archives.
Liverpool Asylum records, for some reason, are available after 30 years. I am awaiting a reader card top get to the online records, but it takes up to 10 days to get here by snailmail ! :o
I'm trying to find out when he went in, he died there July 1907 and the DC says he was there since May. The "asylum" seems to also have been a "general" type hospital, so hoping that the detail will be in one of the CDs that are held at State Archives.
No online records for the Liverpool C of E Cemetery, where he was buried, either. :(
Thanks for the help. I'll just keep on searchin'
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Could try ringing the Liverpool Cemetery for what info they might have.
Good that they are available then - hope they are on CD and you can get a lookup.
Funny, I have an ancestor from Bendemeer (who was a blacksmith), on outskirts of Tamworth. He died in Gladesville assylum in 1883. I have all his hopsital records. Was only in there a couple of months though. He died on maniacal exhaustion, but from the records we have it sounds like dementure (caused by alcohol and age). He was buried in the grounds of the hopsital.
The assylum records are very interesting.
Katharine.
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Should have mentioned - do you have a probate for him in 1907? His probate packet at the state archives could be interesting - might give details of any divorce perhaps.
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Even more interesting is that my father and mother still live in Bendemeer (he was teacher there until his retirement some years ago). If the family still lives around there, Dad might know them.
Cheers
John
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My ancestor was William Elbra the blacksmith. Elbra's gully in main street named after family. Only one relative still living in town now. She lives near the pub.
The Elbra's were there from the early 1850s and would have attend the same school your father taught in. Small world isn't it.
I wonder if your Dad has access to any of the very old school photos. I know there is one that appears in the history book on Bendemeer - and as it was taken in the 1860s it would surely have some of my family members in it.
Katharine.
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Hi Johnat,
Just curious, is this the marriage you are talking about?
1361/1869 HOUGH, WILLIAM GREEN, ANNIE GLEBE
Just that there is a death notice in 1900:
HOUGH - October 31, (eve of the Festival of All Saints), Annie, the beloved wife of Rev. William Hough, rector of S. Jude's, Randwick, and second daughter of Mr. George Green, of Petersham, aged 55 years.
Debra
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Hey, Debra.
Thanks for your interest, but no, that's not her. I'm at work at the moment (and don't have access to all the details) but will check when I get a chance at home, and post more details.
Cheers
John
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Back again ... this time from home where I have all my records.
As far as we have been able to ascertain, she married again under her maiden name in Newcastle.
3014/1869 HUGHES ROBERT MATTHEWS ANN NEWCASTLE
I haven't got either MC to check the familyl details, but will order them both to see. Thanks for assistance.
Cheers
John
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Yet again - the Hough marriage is for someone else entirely. This Annie is far too young to my girl.
Thanks, anyway!