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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kirkcudbrightshire => Topic started by: Maisymum on Monday 13 September 10 22:16 BST (UK)
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Hello, I'm new to this forum. I'm trying to find William Crosbie and Isabella Martin Crosbie on the 1871 census, although by this time they may be in Liverpool. William was from Crossmichael and married Mary Fullarton 1848 in Castle Douglas, they appear on the 1851 census at Cardoness Offices, William is a butler. Their daughter, Isabella Martin, is baptised at Anworth 1854. In 1861 the family live at Meadow Head, Cardoness and William is still a butler. In 1871 Mary and various children are listed as living at Gatehouse of Fleet & Castle Douglas but there is no sign of William or Isabella. In 1878 Isabella married Enoch Gradwell in Stockport and the marriage certificate shows William's occupation as a warehouseman in Liverpool. The 1891 census has him remarried and living in West Derby, Liverpool and we think he died there in 1895. What we are trying to find out is when and possibly why he left Cardoness and where was Isabella between 1861 and 1878. After her marriage Isabella lived out the rest of her life in Stockport and is buried in Cheadle parish church.
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
William was from Crossmichael and married Mary Fullarton 1848 in Castle Douglas
Is this the correct 1861 entry as "William" is Francis
Anwoth Kirkcudbright - all children b Anwoth
Francis Crosby 34 butler b Kirkcudbright
Mary 34 b Kirkcudbright
Mary J 11
Isabella M 9
David M 7
Elizabeth 5
Alexander 1
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This is from the IGI - Isabella was christened 1852 - not 1854
MARY FULLARTON Spouse: FRANCIS CROSBIE Marriage: 02 JUN 1848 Crossmichael, Kirkcudbright
ISABELLA MARTIN CROSBIE Christening: 27 DEC 1852 Kelton, Kirkcudbright, Father: FRANSIS CROSBIE Mother: MARY FULLARTON
ALEXANDER FULLARTON CROSBIE Birth: 18 JUN 1859 Anwoth, Kirkcudbright, Father FRANCIS CROSBIE Mother: MARY FULLARTON
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Hello Maisymum, welcome to RootsChat.
What are the chances of William being on a vessel in 1871?
There's one docked in Saline, Fife 1871 called the Thomas Graham with a William Crosbie on board, born abt 1831 Kirkcudbright. The vessel's address is listed as Dumfries - Victoria Dock, Liverpool. His occupation is Master, but then there are others listed on same said vessel as Master, so know idea what that indicates because I've never come across a census of a vessel before :-\
Interesting point to note - the Thomas Graham was apparently lost at sea in 1879, the night of the storm when the Tay Bridge disaster occurred...I digress ;D
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According to the original post - "William" was a Butler and latterly a warehouseman on his daughters marriage cert
The 1861 and IGI entries I posted above do not support a christian name of William
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This is the 1891 for Liverpool referred to above - again he is Francis not William and his birthyear is 1827 on the 1861 and 1825 in 1891
Francis Crosbie 66 retired warehouseman b Scotland
Eliza 57 b London City
Sarah 27 b Scotland
John 22 b Scotland
RG12 Piece 2989 Folio 133 Page 42
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Huge apologies everyone, I meant to write 'Frances' Crosbie rather than William. William was one of his sons. Sorry about that mix up, I'll try to be more careful in future.
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In 1871 Alexander aged 13 and another Crosbie - Henrietta aged 22 are living with their Fullarton grandparents
HENRIETTA FULLARTON CROSBIE Christening: 10 NOV 1848 Kelton, Kirkcudbright Father: FRANCIS CROSBIE Mother: MARY FULLARTON
In 1871 Mary and various children are listed as living at Gatehouse of Fleet & Castle Douglas
I will post the full 1871 details for Mary - John & Sarah are with Francis & Eliza in 1891
Mary Crosbie 44 b Kelton
Elizabeth 13 b Anwoth
William 9 ditto
Sarah 7 ditto
John 3 b Girthon
Francis is in Liverpool in 1881 - Eliza is shown as Elna/Edna on the image. He has children Sarah aged 17, John aged 12 and a 3yr old grandson called Francis b Liverpool
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Thanks so much for that. Isabella was my Gt Grandma and we have often wondered why and how she left beautiful Dumfries and Galloway for Liverpool. We visited Gatehouse in July and are returning in October to carry on with our research. We were very surprised to discover via the Dumfries & Galloway Family History Society that her father had been a butler. The 1848 marriage to Mary was recorded in a local newspaper and Frances was recorded at living in Crossmichael at the time. We found Mary Fullarton on the 1841 census as living at 21 Queen St Castle Douglas and her father, Alexander, was a brewer. I work for a brewery so that tickled me. We don't know what resulted in the family fragmenting prior to the 1871 census and would love to find out if possible.
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And of course it's Francis, not Frances, which is the feminine version. It's just as well there are other members of the family searching.
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It would appear that Isabella was named after the family who owned Cardoness. An Isabella Martin appears on the 1851 census as being the sister in law of the owner, David Maxwell, and living at Cardoness. Isabella Crosbie's brother was christened David Maxwell Crosbie and his younger brother was christened William Maxwell Crosbie, named after David Maxwell's son and heir. We have been told that this was fairly common practice at the time.
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As Francis was in Liverpool in 1881 and Mary was still alive in 1871 - have you checked for a death for her between 1871-1881 as I can't find an 1881 Scottish entry for her
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A possible marriage
Frank Crosbie September qtr 1880 Strand 1B 963 - there is an Eliza Marriner on the same page
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Yes, we had spotted the marriage to Eliza / Edna as a strong possibility. We can't find Mary for 1881 either so are going to look at deaths in that period. We're hoping to go to Liverpool next week to the records office. We also discovered that Francis and Mary's son David Maxwell Crosbie possibly died aged 15 in Liverpool and we would like to try and find out more about that too. We wonder if he was working with his father at the time in the docks. Thank you very much for your help so far, I'll no doubt be back on again when I've hopefully found out more.
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From freebmd - this entry would suggest that Francis was possibly in Liverpool in 1871
Deaths March qtr 1870
David Maxwell Crosbie aged 15 Liverpool 8b 57
I should have put this additional info in my previous post re: possible marriage for Francis.
There is a Frank Crosbie living in Islington with parents in 1871 so I initially thought it could be his marriage. I checked the 1881 and he was still single and with parents
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I know, it's frustrating that Francis slides from view between the 1861 census and Isabella's marriage in Stockport in 1878. On the marriage certificate he is described as a warehouseman and an address of Pleasant St is given, although this may be Isabella's adress. I've found the page and volume for David Maxwell Crosbie's death and am hoping to follow it up in Liverpool maybe next week. It is interesting to note that Isabella's sister Sarah, and brother John are listed in the 1871 census as living with Mary Crosbie in Gatehouse, and then 20 years later in the 1891 census they are residing with Francis and Eliza in Liverpool. Eliza is listed as a draper, John as a draper's clerk and Sarah as dressmaker / milliner so it looks like some sort of family business. Also, Eliza is listed as their mother which suggests that Mary has died in the intervening years. That's something to look up next month in Gatehouse.
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Hi
I've found the page and volume for David Maxwell Crosbie's death and am hoping to follow it up in Liverpool maybe next week.
You will not be able to access any info on the death cert - you would have to buy a copy
You may possibly be able to find a coroners report which I think will be in the archives (you need to check) and this will not be available until October
Have a look at this link
http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9679
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Thanks for the warning. I was aware that work was being carried out at the archives. The library is back in action this week but I'll decide next week whether it's better to leave it till next month. As you say, there may be a coroner's report as David may have met with an accident. I'm prepared to buy a death certificate as it may help shed light on Francis and Isabella.