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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: gh03 on Monday 13 September 10 14:39 BST (UK)
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Hi I posted a while ago and got some really helpful replies but I wonder if I could ask for more help please?
My mum had a stillborn baby born in July 1960. She wasnt told where her baby was buried which I believe was typical in those days.
I have tried the hospital and the undertaker (she managed to find out which undertaker) but they both say they dont hold records that far back.
The baby was born at Royal Bolton Hospital however at the time my parents lived in Little Hulton, Salford.
We have tried searching buriel records at Bolton Museum but haven't found any record (we did find stillborns listed though which is promising).
My mum wondered if she would have been buried at Wardley in swinton as that is an R.C. Cemetery. Does anyone know where the buriel records would be held? Would they be held in Manchester? If so is it possible to have someone from the archives section search for you?
Thank you.
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just to update I phoned Peel Green Cemetary who hold the buriel records for Wardley and they have no record :( Im really stuck now as I don't know what to try next. Can anyone offer any help please?
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Hi,
Manchester library do hold some Burial records for churches in Bolton, but not so many Roman Catholic Churches.
The only church I can see listed for burial records of that date are:
Bolton- All Souls Funerals-1952-1986- MFPR 1091
To be honest you don't come across burial records that late on microfilm at the libraries I have had a look at the LRO Catholic List of Records for Churches and they don't seem to have any either.
Sorry it wasn't more help
Cancan :)
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Try calling the cemetery.
St Mary's Cemetery
Manchester Road,
Wardley,
Worsley,
Manchester,
M28 2UJ.
Telephone: 0161 794 2194
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Susie
If your mum had her stillborn baby in hospital, the baby would probably have been put in a coffin with an adult. As she has found the undertaker that is what must have happened. Of course, there wouldn't be a record and I doubt that the family of the adult buried in the same coffin would even know a baby had been put with their relative.
Lizzie
ps. My mum had a stillbirth at home about 1955/6 at 7 months pregnant. The GP just took the baby away to be disposed of.
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Would they not keep a record of that then? By strange coincidence my mum said that the week before she was born my great grandmother was buried and they were told a stillborn baby had been put in her coffin. Do they not keep any record of babies put in a coffin with someone else?
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Cancan, thank you for looking for me.
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Susie
I don't know if they kept records, I would guess not as parents didn't cuddle their stillborns like today, even when I was training to be a midwife in the 1970s, stillborn babies were just put in the sluice room until a porter came for them. From memory, the only notes we made, apart from in the patients' notes, was in the birth register, where we would put "Stillborn" and we would give the parents a slip to take to the registrar to register the stillbirth.
Whether the hospital administrators made notes of how the babies were disposed of I have no idea.
Lizzie
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Thanks Lizzie. Looks like a dead end then. She actually only found out about the undertaker because one of the nurses on the ward knew him and mentioned to my mum that her baby was being buried that day. I feel very sad for her. In those days you did as the doctor said and she was only young so didnt ask any questions. She was told to go away and forget about it but after 50 years she still hasn't.
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Earlier thread on same topic here:
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,477616.msg3367422.html#msg3367422
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She was told to go away and forget about it but after 50 years she still hasn't.
That's what used to happen. When my mum had her stillborn baby when she was already 42/43 (quite old to have a baby in the 1950s) she was just told to get pregnant again as soon as possible and that would help her forget. ::)
Lizzie
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As you know the date of the burial why not email as many local cemeteries as you can. I did that and found a grave with a stillborn baby buried the day after the known birth which was buried with a stranger. There were no burials in the following week or so and the cemetery staff were almost sure it was the right burial.
Grave records sometimes, but not always, will say if there's an unnamed child buried in a grave. (see Manchester Burials)
Hope it helps you find the grave.
Margaret
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Thank you
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Hi gh03
This must be a really hard time for your Mum & self, but don't give up.
We always knew we had a baby Sister who died at birth but that was all we knew, as children you don't think of these things but Mum always remembered baby Winifred Ann as my parents named her.
A couple of months ago Mum & I were sorting through old papers and we came across the burial certificate for our baby born in 1948, Mum & Dad paid 12 shillings & 6 pence for her funeral, I then applied for the "Stillborn" birth certificate on behalf of Mum, then contacted the Heaton cemetery in Bolton, luckily the burial record had the plot number on it.
The people at Heaton were great, and though baby Winifred is buried in a common grave at least we now know where she is.
Mum will be 91 in a few weeks time and this has been very emotional for her but also a healing time for the 7th child she had, the only one she lost.
Keep going in your search.
Trish
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Thank you Trish. Once I start searching for something I usually find it hard to admit defeat so I will keep looking.
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Good for you, love determination :)
Trish :)
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Hi
I think this is really sad and I do hope you find you little one soon.
Have you searched the Manchester burial records? (you probably have) I found a family still born by
putting in (or leaving blank) the first name as 'stillborn' and then the surname. It brings up the grave details and who is in it.
I found a catholic grave in Southern (G1361) with several children/babies in it. I went to look on one of my expeditions but there is no stone or memorial there but at least we know where she is.
http://www.burialrecords.manchester.gov.uk/GenSearch.aspx
good luck
Ginger
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There will be a record of the burial of a stillborn child. He or she will be recorded as stillborn child of for example Mr and Mrs Smith with the address. I am only familiar with the burials of still born children in the Liverpool area. Have you contacted the hospital where the child was born and asked them which Cemetery they used?
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I have contacted the mortuary for the hospital where she was born. The lady there was really helpful. She found a record of the baby being born and a signature on 20th July 1960 taking the baby away but she couldn't read the signature. She also checked with Overdale & Heaton Cemeteries but they had no record. My mum has just told me that the baby had a post mortum. Im assuming this will be the signature on 20th July. Does anyone know what information you get on a post mortum report apart from obviously cause of death? Would there be any info on it regarding what happened to the baby after that?
Also, the funeral directors who my mum thinks arranged the burial say they only keep records for 10 years then destroy them. Is there any national database/record for funeral directors records?
And finally, has anyone been and physically searched records at Overdale, Swinton? Can you do that? I did email them and they said there was no record of a baby Leigh but I would prefer to search myself (I dont trust anyone else to do it properly :-[)
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Hi, delay in posting as I've been away.
The only post mortem reports I've seen relating to stillborn babies give date of delivery, type of delivery etc and very full details of all the organs of the body including the skin, the state they were in, the size and weight and any abnormalities, to try to ascertain cause of death and the time of death, but they don't give any info about what happened to the babies after that. I guess, each stillbirth is different. Some parents will want to take their babies and have a funeral and burial, others will just leave the baby with the hospital for the staff to deal with.
Lizzie
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I had a still born child in 1982. I was told by the hospital that I would never know where she was buried unless we had a private funeral. As she was one of twins we decided to leave it to the hospital.
Several years later, I wanted to find out where she was buried.
I approached the nearest cemetery to the hospital where my twins were born, which was Southern Cemetery, and I looked through the buriel register around the time she would have been buried. She was registered under 'child of xxx.'..my name. She is in a pauper's grave but at least I know know where she is. I would try the nearest cemetery to the hospital in which she was born.
I hope you are successful.
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Hi .I am looking for a grave for a friend, twins born in unknown liverpool hosp, they are reg as born and died march 1959 age nil . so I can only think that they died at birth and left at the hosp as I can find no burials or cremations , how can I trace a hosp burial ?
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If they have a birth and death registration then they were not stillborn; those are recorded in a different register (not online).
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would the details be on the death cert , and could the babies still be buried by the hosp?
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No burial details shown on English death certificates; the cause of death will be shown and the age. The "March" registration covers 3 months....January - March.
I don't think hospitals in 1959 were involved in burials; possibly only with stillbirths.
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Sorry not that this will help with finding the place of burial :(
My sibling birth/death was registered in same quarter in 1964, born Dec ‘63, age at death registered as 0
I recently purchased the birth and death certificate
d/c showed, age 2 months, cause of death, informants name.
Unfortunately the GRO death indexes which would show the age only goes up to year 1957
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thank you both for your helpful input , I will keep digging , even though it's hard to think were to look next.
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I think that you really need at least one of the death certificates to establish where they died
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Are the death registration numbers for them close or could they have died a few days/weeks apart
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thank you both for your helpful input , I will keep digging , even though it's hard to think were to look next.
The only suggestion I can make is perhaps obtaining the death certificate/s and see
what address is given and check to see what cemeteries maybe closest to that address.
My sibling was buried in the cemetery which was less than a few miles from the address on d/c -
good luck with your search
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I agree.....the death certificates are the next step. They might have been buried together if their deaths were close together.
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Are the death registration numbers for them close or could they have died a few days/weeks apart
I agree.....the death certificates are the next step. They might have been buried together if their deaths were close together.
If I have the correct births/deaths they both have the same registration and page/vol numbers - have sent lemondog1 a PM - not that I think I'll be able to help any further with burial
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yes the deaths are 10d 546 and 547 twins ,died together . I will pass your thoughts on to my friend. I know their mother and father lived in the bootle area of liverpool ,so will look for the nearest cemetery or cremitory . thanks again for your help.
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I am looking for a grave for a friend, twins born in unknown liverpool hosp,
they are reg as born and died march 1959 age nil .
yes the deaths are 10d 546 and 547 twins ,died together .
From your reply above the PM I sent you were for the wrong deaths ( 10d 660) :(
I might be missing something obvious I can't seem to locate the death/s age 0 for the
volume and pages you have posted ???
Please come back and let us know how you get on
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sorry my misstake 10d 604 and 605 , the other must be the birth ref
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just found out that a grandparent is buried at Bootle cemetery ,and s the mother of the baby twins lived in bootle we hope to try sefton council to check if they have a record of burials for he twins, laura and paul coulton march 1959.fingers crossed
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Thought I would add to this thread some recent additions to Lancashire OPC website.
Bacup Cemetery:
Burials in Unconsecrated Ground 1862-1882 (Many stillborn babies in this register, in common or 4th Class graves.)
Register for Burials of Stillborn Children 1926-1995
There are some burials of stillborn babies in consecrated ground at various times in this cemetery.
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Bootle Cemetery Records are held at
Thornton Garden of Rest
0151 924 5143
Email thornton.gardenofrest[at]sefton.gov.uk
Moderator Comment: e-mail edited, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please replace [-- at --] with @
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thanks for the email address ,just found out about thornton.
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just found out that a grandparent is buried at Bootle cemetery ,
the mother of the baby twins lived in bootle
thanks for the email address ,just found out about thornton.
I was going to add this today
That’s a good start Bootle Cemetery has a baby memorial garden
https://www.sefton.gov.uk/births,-marriages-and-deaths/register-a-death/bootle-cemetery.aspx
Also in the area around Bootle Cemetery are *Walton Park Cemetery (*added),
Kirkdale Cemetery, Everton Cemetery
and Thornton Garden of Rest
Are you aware of where their parents were buried ?
Even though my sibling was buried, my parents both choose to be cremated
Edit
Sorry from your post just noticed that you mention a grandparent was buried in Bootle ::)
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Hi thanks for the hints ,not heared of park cemetery before , I hope we get lucky with bootle . going to ring tomorow .
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Hi thanks for the hints ,not heared of park cemetery before , I hope we get lucky with bootle . going to ring tomorow .
sorry should have read Walton Park Cemetery
Walton Park Cemetery
Cemetery in Liverpool, England
Address: 27 Highfield Rd, Liverpool L9 1AS
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Nothing found in bootle cemetery records :'( crosby lib are doing a quick search , very kind of them .
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:(
Nothing found in bootle cemetery records :'( crosby lib are doing a quick search , very kind of them .
:(
Any idea of the family address from when the parents married?
Perhaps checking the Electoral Register for the area for an address starting with the date
of their marriage and looking for them in 1959 then you could google address to see what cemeteries or hospitals are in that area.
Other than that obtaining their death or birth certificates would give you their address
and it would also give the exact date of death.
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Hi my friend is checking her papers to see if there are any certs before we order any , will find were in bootle they lived . twins born and christened in walton hospital.
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twins born and christened in walton hospital.
Walton Park Cemetery
Cemetery in Liverpool, England
27 Highfield Rd, Liverpool L9 1AS
Is Walton Park Cemetery close to Walton Hospital?
Not sure if this will be helpful here's a little bit of info. on History of Walton Park Cemetery
http://www.sarsfieldmemorialsliverpool.co.uk/a-history-of-walton-park-cemetery/
Edit
This cemetery may have closed for new burials before 1959
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What religion is the family? If RC they may be in Ford Cemetery.
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no not rc c of e, pity ford is easier :-\
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we are now looking at walton cemetery ,near rice lane , as twins were born and christened in walton hosp , anybody know were to find records online ? bootle came up empty.
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we are now looking at walton cemetery ,near rice lane , as twins were born and christened in walton hosp , anybody know were to find records online ? bootle came up empty.
I don't think there is anything online - there is find a grave for
Walton Park Cemetery Hornby Lane,Walton, Metropolitan Borough of Liverpool Merseyside England
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=cr&CRid=2180242&CScn=walton+park&
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/N13680728
Maybe contacting Liverpool Records Office
Not sure if you'll find some info. here
have a read through - headings Walton Park Cemetery Liverpool
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=531354.0
https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/
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no can't find anything on line, looks like will have to go to records at william brown st ,liverpool ,have o leave it to my friend as I'm not well and husband wont let me out unless with him and cert not to liverpool. thanks agai for all your input . I hope they are not i walton cemetery it sounds a nightmare to find a grave there .