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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: shelby4178 on Monday 13 September 10 12:24 BST (UK)

Title: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: shelby4178 on Monday 13 September 10 12:24 BST (UK)
Hi,

I'm looking to find any information on the death of my Father's 1st wife. She was apparently murdered by a jealous lover. I don't know when this happened and only have rough time periods.

My Father's name was Robert Stanley Thomas WILLIAMS 1938-2002. His 1st Wife's name was "Jean" "Jeanie" "Gean", I'm do not know her maiden name and am not sure what year they were married. He married my Mother in 1977, so it was before then.

It happened in NSW Australia, perhaps in the Maitland, Newcastle area. They do not have any children and I am unable to also find their marriage certificate.
Apparently, her lover shot her when he found out that she wanted to reconcille with my Father. He also then shot himself.

I am currently doing my family tree and would like to add this information to it if I can find out more. ANy information would be appreciated  ;D  Michelle (on ancestry.com as SHARROCK/WILLIAMS)
Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: judb on Monday 13 September 10 13:19 BST (UK)
On-line BMDs in NSW only have marriages up to 1959.  Someone else may have access to later information.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm

There is this marriage but your father would have only been 20 -
1958  Robert Thomas WILLIAMS m Jean Elizabeth MIDDLETON  registered SYDNEY  #7359

Judith
Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: jorose on Monday 13 September 10 16:37 BST (UK)
http://archives.smh.com.au/
"Jean Williams" <and> murder turns up a hit from 1962, for example.
You would have to pay for a subscription (not sure if some libraries might have access to this?) to see the full text.
I would imagine a murder/suicide would be widely reported.
Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 14 September 10 00:08 BST (UK)
Hi shelby,
May I ask what makes you certain the couple were married

Do you have evidence of such a marriage or is it possible it was a "common law" relationship.

The reason I query this is if she continued to use her maiden name, it will alter the criteria of your search.

Sue

Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: alison2763 on Tuesday 14 September 10 00:39 BST (UK)
Do you have your father's death certificate ?
Depending on what the informant knew, her name and date of death might be listed on it.
Regards
Alison
Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: shelby4178 on Tuesday 14 September 10 06:19 BST (UK)
Thankyou everyone,

I had a look on BDM and after a long discussion with my mother, the dates do add up as she mentioned that my father was young when he married his 1st wife.

I am now in the process of trying to find old newspaper archives which may tell me what actually happened. I guess curiosity now has the best of me.

Thanks again  :)
Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 14 September 10 06:28 BST (UK)

 I don't know when this happened and only have rough time periods.

So, do you believe this to be her death?

REG. 7142In 1960  WILLIAMS  JEAN ELIZABETH father JOHN mother  KATHLEEN at  ROCKDALE

Sue   
Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: shelby4178 on Wednesday 15 September 10 02:09 BST (UK)
Hi Sue,

Yes I believe this to be her. I have been looking at BDM records and it does all make sense.

Michelle  :)
Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: majm on Wednesday 15 September 10 02:40 BST (UK)
Hi there,

Are you looking for a likely death registration for the "other party".... 

The NSW BDM online index can give some clues IF you are confident about the one Sue mentions.  For example, if Rockdale and 1960 and looking at the reference number of 7142, then perhaps look for a similar but slightly higher number.  That type of searching can be time consuming without a surname .... but once you have a transcript of the one for Jean Elizabeth Williams, and read the information on it (should list her husband by name) .... then search online using " * " as a wildcard for a surname and 1960 and Rockdale ....  If too many that way, then use " a* " and then " b* " etc and work your way through the alphabet ...  You can sort each search result by the various columns online, so by sorting using the reference number column you can then see reference numbers around 7142....   

I presume the "other party" would have parents, siblings and family, perhaps some who are still living, so please do consider their privacy through this journey of curiosity.

Transcripts of the official certificates are cheaper and can be received by email.  Official Certificates from 1960's are typed up anyway.   

Registry of BMD New South Wales
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm

Details on ALL Certificates for New South Wales
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/familyHistoryCertificates.htm  
http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html

Transcription Agents
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html


Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: PrueM on Wednesday 15 September 10 04:03 BST (UK)
Hi Michelle,

If you get the death certificate you will have a date of death, and could then search in local, state and national newspapers for any reports.  The National Library has papers online, but only up to the 1950s, so you would need to go to a library to view originals and/or microfilms.

Cheers
Prue
Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 15 September 10 07:17 BST (UK)
H
And  I would like to add yet another recommendation  ;D

If , on the death certificate transcript, the husband turns out not to be ROBERT THOMAS WILLIAMS, (or she is unmarried etc.)  you should proceed to purchasing the trnascript of the marriage certificate for JEAN ELIZABETH and ROBERT THOMAS WILLIAMS.

It will give you information about the couple which may give pointers to further searching, eg parents names for JEAN, POB etc.

Sue
Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: Billyblue on Sunday 26 December 10 13:58 GMT (UK)
http://archives.smh.com.au/
"Jean Williams" <and> murder turns up a hit from 1962, for example.
You would have to pay for a subscription (not sure if some libraries might have access to this?) to see the full text.
I would imagine a murder/suicide would be widely reported.
Hi, I've just looked at the SMH hit from 1962 and it is a legal notice of Probate ‘in the Will of Henry Harold Stevenson late of Tamworth’
granted to Jean Williams executrix, will dated 19 July 1960
EVERINGHAM SOLOMONS  & CO, Proctors for Executrix, 9 Fitzroy Street, Tamworth, by their Agents, MARSHALL MARKS DEZARNAULDS & JONES, Solicitors, C alla Chambers, 67 Castlereagh Street, Sydney
If she died in 1962  1960  then this is not her.
Dawn M.
PS Do you know the lover's name?
Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: mrwilson on Monday 27 December 10 00:33 GMT (UK)
Given it was a murder-suicide there would have been a Coroners' Inquest.

 Look here for inquest search info...
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/archives-in-brief/archives-in-brief-4/?searchterm=coronial%20inquests
Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: shelby4178 on Monday 28 February 11 09:33 GMT (UK)
Hi!

I've have been asking questions and getting no where with the family members that apparently know what happened back then, so i'm continuing the search with you all.

Sadly, I don't know the name of her lover and wish I was more of a nosey parker and asked my Father more. I'll post if I find something and will let you know how I go.

Michelle  :)
Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: Walcha72 on Tuesday 01 March 11 02:04 GMT (UK)
Hi,

SMH Death Notices 12 March 1960

WILLIAMS, Jean Elizabeth - March 10, 1960, late of 25 Baxter Avenue, Kogarah, dearly beloved wife of Leslie, loved mother of Robert and Susanna, loved daughter of Mrs C. Wheeler, and sister of Shirley (Mrs L. Smith). aged 42 years.

Debbie
Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: fredthompson on Tuesday 15 March 11 17:05 GMT (UK)
hi shelby
i found these 3 its on NSW BD&M
Marriage 7359/1958  WILLIAMS  ROBERT THOMAS  MIDDLETON  JEAN ELIZABETH  SYDNEY
death 80517/1970  WILLIAMS  ELIZABETH JEAN  GODFREY JAMES  IVY ISABELLA  NEWCASTLE.
i'm just going on the newcastle maitland part of your story
the only other on in the newcastle area is this on
death 80512/1973  WILLIAMS  JEAN  GEORGE HASTINGS  ALICE MARY  NEWCASTLE.
just to give you more options  ???     
Title: Re: Father's 1st Wife Murdered, Info Search
Post by: shelby4178 on Saturday 19 March 11 10:43 GMT (UK)
Hello!

Yes this search has been rather frustrating. The marriage link is correct:

Marriage 7359/1958  WILLIAMS  ROBERT THOMAS  MIDDLETON  JEAN ELIZABETH  SYDNEY

But I do believe that she was killed in 1960 in Sydney, if my memory serves me correct. I'm unable to log into Ancestry.com at the moment, but I'm 90% sure that is right.

If only family tree tracing was easy!  :)