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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cumberland => England => Cumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: taylorkit on Sunday 12 September 10 22:57 BST (UK)
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anyone know of a harry riches born carlisle circa 1832 and lived in chesterfield , derbyshire
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Hi, I am also looking for any new info on Harry/Henry Riches/Richards.
He appears in the 1881 England census age 49 with wife Hannah (nee Madin) and several daughters (some from Hannah's previous relationship with an Abraham Morris) working as a "bottle caser at pottery".
He is also on daughter Hannah Elizabeth's marriage certificate when she marries Edward Lomas in 1897, occupation basket maker.
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Have you seen this 1871 entry, boarding with William and Sarah Crowder in Newbold Derbyshire? Seems to be flexible regarding his age!
Name Henry Rithes, basket maker, married
Age 54
Estimated Birth Year 1817
Relation Boarder
born Carlisle
Civil parish Newbold
Registration District Chesterfield
Sub-registration district Chesterfield
ED, institution, or vessel 20
Household schedule number 151
Piece 3612
Folio 41
Page number 26
Not found him earlier yet.
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fiddlerslass - thank you, that's an interesting find. It might raise more questions than it answers.
If it is our man, why is he boarding if he's married? The age discrepancy is fairly wide, too. I will add it to the "maybe" pile as there are several things there that do align with other info.
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There are several scenarios which could explain why he was boarding:
He was separated from his wife.
He is widowed and mistakenly is listed as married.
He is new to the area and wants to establish himself before his wife joins him there.
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True, I feel it's possible that there was some volatility in the relationship.
Also possible he didn't like authority much and was fond of giving inaccurate answers. I've been unable to find birth or marriage records for him. Shall persevere!
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Just a theory..
I am wondering if he came from a Romani background as basket making was a typical occupation. There were groups of Romani around Cumbria (handy for Appleby horse fair) and the Scottish lowlands and they had links to the potteries. This is from Wikipedia
"Romanichal traders in Scotland were upwardly mobile. By 1830, they travelled to the potteries in Staffordshire, buying china and other goods and selling the items chiefly in Northumberland while based in Kirk Yetholm in Roxburghshire."
Chesterfield is not too out of the way if traveling south!
Have you done DNA?
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1871 transcibed on FindMyPast as RISHES
SS
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That is a fascinating theory! I have done the DNA tests on several sites, no ethnicities come up other than English/Irish/Scottish/Welsh on all of them, and a touch of Scandanavian/Danish on one. I am not sure how Romani might show up.
Harry was my 2nd great-grandfather so I imagine that's close enough that anything he had is likely to show up in me to some degree.
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One for the back burner apart from place of birth.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG6P-1KS?lang=en
SS
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I too have a small ( about 3 %) scandinavian showing up, which I think is from having northern English ancestry and a touch of Viking ancestry! Vikings were in Cumbria too of course, so that could have come down through Henry.
I believe if someone has Roma or Sinti ancestry you should see a small percentage of South Asian DNA. However it would really depend how mixed and how far removed that ancestor is and if he actually inherited it (DNA can work in strange ways).
Never give up... It took me 20 years to find my gtgranny; born a Campbell but married using surname Young and is on 1881 census under Martin !