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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cumberland => England => Cumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: taylorkit on Sunday 12 September 10 22:57 BST (UK)

Title: carlisle birth
Post by: taylorkit on Sunday 12 September 10 22:57 BST (UK)
anyone know of a harry riches born carlisle circa 1832 and lived in chesterfield , derbyshire
Title: Re: carlisle birth
Post by: Sherazard on Friday 20 June 25 11:54 BST (UK)
Hi, I am also looking for any new info on Harry/Henry Riches/Richards.

He appears in the 1881 England census age 49 with wife Hannah (nee Madin) and several daughters (some from Hannah's previous relationship with an Abraham Morris) working as a "bottle caser at pottery".

He is also on daughter Hannah Elizabeth's marriage certificate when she marries Edward Lomas in 1897, occupation basket maker.
Title: Re: carlisle birth
Post by: fiddlerslass on Friday 20 June 25 12:41 BST (UK)
Have you seen this 1871 entry, boarding with William and Sarah Crowder in Newbold Derbyshire? Seems to be flexible regarding his age!

Name    Henry Rithes, basket maker, married
Age    54
Estimated Birth Year    1817
Relation    Boarder

 born    Carlisle

Civil parish    Newbold



Registration District    Chesterfield
Sub-registration district    Chesterfield
ED, institution, or vessel    20
Household schedule number    151
Piece    3612
Folio    41
Page number    26

Not found him earlier yet.
Title: Re: carlisle birth
Post by: Sherazard on Friday 20 June 25 12:53 BST (UK)
fiddlerslass - thank you, that's an interesting find. It might raise more questions than it answers.

If it is our man, why is he boarding if he's married? The age discrepancy is fairly wide, too. I will add it to the "maybe" pile as there are several things there that do align with other info.

Title: Re: carlisle birth
Post by: fiddlerslass on Friday 20 June 25 12:58 BST (UK)
There are several scenarios which could explain why he was boarding:

He was separated from his wife.

He is widowed and mistakenly is listed as married.


He is new to the area and wants to establish himself before his wife joins him there.
Title: Re: carlisle birth
Post by: Sherazard on Friday 20 June 25 13:01 BST (UK)
True, I feel it's possible that there was some volatility in the relationship.

Also possible he didn't like authority much and was fond of giving inaccurate answers. I've been unable to find birth or marriage records for him. Shall persevere!
Title: Re: carlisle birth
Post by: fiddlerslass on Friday 20 June 25 13:21 BST (UK)
Just a theory..

I am wondering if he came from a Romani background as basket making was a typical occupation. There were groups of Romani around Cumbria (handy for Appleby horse fair) and the Scottish lowlands and they had links to the potteries. This is from Wikipedia

"Romanichal traders in Scotland were upwardly mobile. By 1830, they travelled to the potteries in Staffordshire, buying china and other goods and selling the items chiefly in Northumberland while based in Kirk Yetholm in Roxburghshire."

Chesterfield is not too out of the way if traveling south!

Have you done DNA?
Title: Re: carlisle birth
Post by: softly softly on Friday 20 June 25 13:21 BST (UK)
1871 transcibed on FindMyPast as RISHES

SS
Title: Re: carlisle birth
Post by: Sherazard on Friday 20 June 25 13:28 BST (UK)
That is a fascinating theory! I have done the DNA tests on several sites, no ethnicities come up other than English/Irish/Scottish/Welsh on all of them, and a touch of Scandanavian/Danish on one. I am not sure how Romani might show up.

Harry was my 2nd great-grandfather so I imagine that's close enough that anything he had is likely to show up in me to some degree.
Title: Re: carlisle birth
Post by: softly softly on Friday 20 June 25 13:35 BST (UK)
One for the back burner apart from place of birth.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG6P-1KS?lang=en

SS
Title: Re: carlisle birth
Post by: fiddlerslass on Friday 20 June 25 13:51 BST (UK)
I too have a small ( about 3 %) scandinavian showing up, which I think is from having northern English ancestry and a touch of Viking ancestry! Vikings were in Cumbria too of course,  so that could have come down through Henry.

I believe if someone has Roma or Sinti ancestry you should see a small percentage of South Asian DNA. However it would really depend how mixed and how far removed that ancestor is and if he actually inherited it (DNA can work in strange ways).

Never give up... It took me 20 years to find my gtgranny; born a Campbell but married using surname Young and is on 1881 census under Martin !