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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Warwickshire => England => Warwickshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Deb0na1r on Sunday 12 September 10 22:11 BST (UK)
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This is my first post so hope I am going about it the right way :-[
I have a birth certificate of a child born to my great uncle Charles Thomas Guest and Phoebe Lavinia Guest formerly Guest in Cromwell St Aston 1923. The only Phoebe Guest I can find is in Northfield, Birmingham on the 1901 census, father Alfred and sister married to a Nickless.
I ordered a marriage certificate for a Charles Thomas Guest and Phoebe Lavinia (Kings Norton 1919) but her surname is Wilkes, her father Wilkes although the witnesses are Nickless and fathers occupation same and groom's father's name correct.
Cannot trace any previous marriage and not sure if this is my Charles Thomas, Edgbaston address does not ring true to me but rest seems too coincidental.
If anyone has any information would be much appreciated :)
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Hi and welcome :)
It seems to me to be extremely likely that the "formerly GUEST" on the birth certificate is an error, and should read "formerly WILKES".
FreeBMD has two GUEST births with mother's maiden name WILKES in the Birmingham area - 1921 and 1928 respectively. Given that the dates are as recent as they are (and there is a chance they are still living) I will not post their given names, but if you have a look for them you may be able to confirm them as known siblings of the 1923 child.
Meanwhile I will see if I can ask a moderator to move your thread to a more appropriate board, as this one is for disposing of unwanted certificates :)
Anna
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Thanks Anna - topic moved!
:D
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Hi Anna,
wow that was quick!
Thanks for such a speedy response. I have seen the 2 records you refer to but what puzzles me is there is a1901 census record for a Phoebe Guest with her sister and husband, both Nickless on there (originally put as head then amended) and my certificate has Nickless witnesses. Nonetheless I cannot be sure that this is the same Charles Thomas as the birth cert I have shows his mothers address in Nechells. I did notice the marriage was at a Register Office and I wondered if this was unusual in those days and could indicate a second marriage.
Thanks for your kind help,
Debbie
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Yes, I see what you mean Debbie.
There is the birth of Phoebe Lavinia GUEST Dec qtr 1899 King's Norton, who's of the right age to be the child in the mixed NICKLESS/GUEST household in 1901 (RG13/2808/92/22).
I wonder where the WILKES came into it - perhaps a stepfather's name? Will have a look.
Anna :)
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Likely death of Alfred GUEST, the father of the 1 yr old Phoebe in the 1901 census:
Death, Mar qtr 1917
Alfred GUEST aged 62
Aston 6d 446
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I ordered a marriage certificate for a Charles Thomas Guest and Phoebe Lavinia (Kings Norton 1919) but her surname is Wilkes, her father Wilkes although the witnesses are Nickless and fathers occupation same and groom's father's name correct.
What exactly is the full information given about Phoebe's father on the marriage certificate?
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Thanks again Anna,
Alfred Wilkes (deceased) stoker at metal casting works -
Ties in with death record you have found. ( I have wondered if Wilkes an error)
Charles Thomas Guest's father - Charles Guest (deceased) railway engine driver-
This agrees with records of my great grandfather who died in 1898 except all records show him as an engine fitter.
Charle Thomas is down as 25 yr old bachelor rubber (?) grinder 3 Back 10, Spring Vale, Bristol Rd, Edgbaston
Phoebe 21 yr old spinster, press hand at purse (?) makers, same address
Witnesses M & J Nickless.
Much appreciate you having searched records, did not expect such help :)
Debbie
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I dont know of how much use this is, but i stumbled across this thread whilest looking for a different Nickless,
In my tree I have a Phoebe Lavina Guest born oct/nov/dec 1889 daughter of Alfred Guest and Rachael Evans. She is the sister of Minnie Guest who married Frederick Nickless (who are my great grandparents)
that is where the Guest-Nickless tie comes from
Charly
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Hi Charly,
Thanks so much for your message, I think I have come across your tree before with a photo of Minnie.
What I am trying to find out is if the Charles Thomas Guest in your family is the same Charles Thomas Guest as my Great Uncle. I am pretty sure the marriage certificate I have is for your Great Grand Uncle in view of the Nickless witnesses. I can e-mail you a copy of the certificate it it helps with your research.
Would anyone in your family know anything about Charles Thomas that would help? Mine was born in Highgate, Birmingham and grew up in Aston.
My other confusion is that Phoebe Lavinia seems to have been born a Guest and married a Guest but used her mothers Maiden name on one of her childrens birth certificates.
Phew! This one makes my head spin!
Any information would be a great help, thanks for your interest,
Debbie
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Hi Debbie!
Did you see my tree on Ancestry?
Minnie and Frederick Nickless are my Great Grandparents, They adopted my grandad Donald Nickless when he was around 15 - i think, my grandad passed away over 10 years ago so all the information i do have is stuff my grandma can remember, which isnt very much. My grandma tells me that Minnie was actually my grandads birth aunt, but we have no idea who his real mother is/was . He was in contact with them at some point but he lost contact with his 'birth family' a long time ago.
On Ancestry, Ive had contact with a cousin (i dont know how many times removed etc -you know what this tree hunting is like) who is also a decendant of Minnie and Frederick (grandchild i think) and he has far more information than I do, he may be able to give you more information with regards to the Guest side - all the photos on ancestry are from his tree that crossed over to mine, if you go onto my ancestry you should find him :P
Ive got to admit I havent researched much of the Guest line, but I did see that a Guest married a Guest - apparently it was common practice for cousins to marry each other in that time,
and yes any information you have would also help me! Thanks
Good Luck with your search!
charly
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Hi charly,
Yes it has all come back to me, we have had quite a chat on Ancestry before!
I am pretty sure that I have been in touch with the guy who posted the photos and he did not come up with anything but I do not seem to have the messages anymore.
I came to the conclusion a while ago that Charles Thomas married his cousin but didn't want to say it out loud in case it offended some relative! I was not aware that it was something not unusual in those days. Interestingly I have a copy of his mothers will and he came very poorly off compared to the others and I did wonder if he had gotten himself out of favour!
Thanks again and if you want a copy of the marriage certificate with your Great Grandparents as witnessess just message me your e-mail address to Ancestry and I will send as an attachment.
Debbie
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Many Thanks!
Its such a small world isnt it! I havent used ancestry for ages im only looking into my tree again as im using a 2 week trial on another site, so ill see if i can work out how to send a pm on here, That will help that side of the tree,
Yes it seems strange to us about marrying cousins as odd, but its to keep money in the family etc,( maybe for love you never know! )
Ive found with the guests/nickless's its all very confusing ! there is another site ive been using familysearch.org that i found on a thread that helped me track down alot of folks who lived in smaller villages but when it came to everyone moving to Birmingham had no joy with it, as it was all parish based.
good luck with it all and stay in touch and let me know how your search goes!
Charly x