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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: UnaBobby on Sunday 12 September 10 16:33 BST (UK)
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My Gt Grandmother was Sarah Agnes Moody b1868 Belfast. Her parents were John Moody and Sarah Agnes McNeill. John Moody b c1846 was a Blacksmith (he worked on Gt Patrick Steet)who died in 1887 at age 44. He left a will and his money went to his wife Sarah Agnes Moody who lived at Great George's Street, Belfast. Sarah Agnes and John were married in 1864 at Parish Church of the Lower Falls ( United CofE and CofI).
John Moody's father was Alexander Moody b c1807 a farmer. He died in tragic circumstances on 29th December 1868 and it was reported in the paper that he was murdered. He was 61. His wife was Mary. They lived Clonkeen Randalstown. They both left wills.
Does anyone know who Alexander's father was or anything about this family? Can you help me find Alexander's father or his birth place? His marriage?
Can you tell me where to look?
Thanks in advance.
Kind regards
Una
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I've only just picked up this notice but I have recently discovered Moody relatives who lived in Belfast. They have same names as some you mention here, John Moody and Alexander Moody. Alexander Moody was my 4x great grandfather who married Elizabeth McVicker. He came over to Govan, Glasgow around 1904, aged around 83 or so and died shortly after. I know he lived in Little Patrick Street around 1877 and had two brothers - John and James. I don't know any more about them, who they married etc. They were Church of Ireland, although the children converted to Catholicism when Alexander remarried Sarah Hainey. If you think there is any connection, I'd be delighted to hear from you.
Sandra
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I've only just picked up this notice but I have recently discovered Moody relatives who lived in Belfast. They have same names as some you mention here, John Moody and Alexander Moody. Alexander Moody was my 4x great grandfather who married Elizabeth McVicker. He came over to Govan, Glasgow around 1904, aged around 83 or so and died shortly after. I know he lived in Little Patrick Street around 1877 and had two brothers - John and James. I don't know any more about them, who they married etc. They were Church of Ireland, although the children converted to Catholicism when Alexander remarried Sarah Hainey. If you think there is any connection, I'd be delighted to hear from you.
Sandra
How Exciting! I have come across the Alexander Moody who married Eliza/Elizabeth MCVicker but don't know if this is my Alexander or not.
This is what I know for sure.
John Moody was my Gt Grandfather.
John Moody's death certificate gives his age as 43 at death in 1887 so his birth date is c1844.
John Moody married Sarah Agnes McNeill 18 April 1864 in the Church of Saint Lukes Lower Falls Church of Ireland (Parish Shankill) Church of Ireland. The witnesses were Ellen Rice and Samuel Murry (Sic). John's father is named as Alexander Moody a farmer.
He converted to Catholicism on 28th May 1865 at age 21 at St Malachy's RC Church Belfast.
He was a Blacksmith who died in 1887 in Belfast at age 43. He ran his business and lived in 921/2 Great George's Street, Belfast. He left a will and I have found a gravestone inscription. In the Belfast business directory he is located at Hamilton Street and Castle Street in the 1860s. He lived in Great Patrick Street for a time.
Other things I have found out:
There was a John Moody baptised 17/4/1846 St Anne's Church of Ireland Father Alexander Moody Mother Eliza McVicker Belfast, Shankill.
Was the Alexander Moody who married Eliza McVicker a farmer?
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I wonder if this is a sister of John Moody?
May(Could this be Mary?) Ann Moody married George Cunningham on 20th Jun 1868 in Saint Lukes Lower Falls C of I.
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I wonder if this is a sister of John Moody?
May(Could this be Mary?) Ann Moody married George Cunningham on 20th Jun 1868 in Saint Lukes Lower Falls C of I.
Hi
My John Moody named one of his daughters Mary Ann. Do you know the name of Mary Ann's father?
Thank you so much.
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Hi,
In the above marriage Mary Anne Moody's father was Joseph Moody.
Regards
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Hi,
In the above marriage Mary Anne Moody's father was Joseph Moody.
Regards
Thank you. Could be another part of the puzzle.... :-D
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Hello again ... I've gone back and forward with this but I don't think my Alexander Moody (born c1827) is the one you're looking for, as he came to Glasgow and remained here until he died in 1906; whereas you think that your Alexander died in Ireland at the age of 61. You're right in that Alexander and Eliza did have a son John but I have no information on him other than the church records of his baptism. It would appear that at least three of their children converted to catholicism after the marriage of Alexander to his second wife Sarah Hayburn. I think this is only a coincidence as far as your John's conversion is concerned, (although it was interesting in that my grandfather and grandmother, on my mother's side - Thomas & Margaret Gillen, also got married in St Malachy's).
I do know that my Alexander's father was called Andrew Moody and his wife was Frances Moody but whether any of them were involved in farming or not, I have no information on that. I wonder how prevalant the Moody name was in Belfast at that time? The names are all so familiar, I wonder if they are all related in some way? I so want it to be! I'm visiting Belfast again this summer and hope to find out more at Proni. I'll keep your details on hand and if I happen to see anything that looks relevant to you, I'll pass it on.
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If you go to http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/surname/ and enter 'Moody', it will indicate the spread of the surname across Ireland in mid 1800s. Not too many families of the surname in Belfast area, it would seem.
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If you go to http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/surname/ and enter 'Moody', it will indicate the spread of the surname across Ireland in mid 1800s. Not too many families of the surname in Belfast area, it would seem.
Thank you so much for this ... it's a great link and helpful when I get to Proni. Much appreciated.
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You may have this already.
Familysearch gives the age of Alexander Moody, Clonkeen, who died 1869 as 57 so if correct that makes his birth year c1812.
His wife, Mary died 27th October 1895. You will find an image of her will on the PRONI website. The will mentions three daughters, Margaret, Mary and Elizabeth Thompson, a son Alex who was in America, a son Hugh and a grandson Alex Thompson.
Eliza Moody, father Alexander, married Hugh Thompson, father Samuel Thompson on 21st March 1863 in Ballyscullion, Antrim, Ireland.
1901 Census shows a Margaret Moody, age given as 40, living in Clonkeen with her nephew Alexander Thompson, age given as 30.
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Hi Govan Fair
I don't really know that the Alexander Moody who died in 1861 is my Alexander Moody. I rather think he isn't (I hope not as he was murdered!).
This is what I know 100%
1) John Moody married Sarah Agnes McNeill on 18th April 1864 at the Parish Church of Lower Falls, Belfast (St Luke's) under the rites of C of England & Ireland. His profession was a Smith. His father was Alexander Moody a farmer ( IT DOESN't say deceased). One of the witnesses is Ellen Rice the other is difficult to decipher -could be Samuel or John Murray ?
2) Baptism 28/5/1865 St Malachy's John Moody - a 24 year old protestant convert - born 1841.
3) Death. There was a lot of confusion at John's death as to his age. The death certificate says 45 at last birthday making his birth year c1842. However, the entry was corrected by his widow on production of a statutory declaration to age 43 which would then be c1844.
4) John ran a blacksmith business out of 92 Great Patrick Street & also Castle Steet
5) in 1866 he was living at 15 Hamilton Street.
6) When he died in 1887 he was living at 92 1/2 Great George's St.
7) I have a photo of him.
8) He is buried in the Mill Town cemetry
9) The names that John Moody used for his children were
1) Arthur Joseph
2) Mary Ann
3) Sarah Agnes (This came from his wife's side of the family)
4) Charles Robert
5) John Michael
When I looked for his birth records the only option I came up with was John Moody son of Alexander Moody & Eliza McVicker baptised St Anne's Church of Ireland 17 April 1846. This is quite close to the 1844 that his widow attested to.
Does any of this sound familiar?
Thanks Everyone!
Una
Thank you
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Deleted
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This is John Moody b c1844 d1887
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Hello again Una
Well ... that's a different slant on things as I thought you expected that the Alexander Moody (who got murdered!) belonged to you. So that's the good news. I had a look through my papers and the Ulster Historical people printed off all the details for your John ... just as you have described him here. I listed him under 'not confirmed' as I really didn't think there was enough to go by because they didn't list the mother's name .. why I wonder? By now his mother, Eliza, would have been dead. Is that why they didn't bother? The interesting thing I think is that he converted to catholicism, as my Alexander and William both converted on or before their father's marriage to his second wife Sarah.
This needs more investigation. I'm about to join a Family History Society that allows me access to Irish records. I'll concentrate on this one and let you know how I get on.
I have to say, much as I just love the photo you've put on, I don't know that I see a family resemblance and he doesn't look too poor, whereas when Alexander and William (who may have been his brothers) came to Glasgow they were in fairly straitened circumstances I think.
Can I ask .. is Great Patrick St near to Little Patrick St? because this is where Alexander lived at the time of his marriage in 1877. Both of our Moody families do all come from Shankhill though.
If I've done it properly, I've attached some documents provided by the Ulster History people, downloaded from Ancestry Ireland. They may help. Let's see how this goes and good luck to both of us! Sandra
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So close
Great Patrick Street
Little Patrick Street
Great George's Street
All Parallel
Great George Street to Little Patrick Street is a 3 minute walk.
It's a 6 minute walk to St Anne's
I will post a map.
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The mother's name isn't shown because it's a transcription of the marriage cert (of which I have a copy - I tried to upload it but it was too big )
Una
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Do you have Alexander junior's baptism details at St Anne's?
Do you know when Alexander & William converted?
Una
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Don't know if you know - Ritchie's Court was off Coates Street - Coates Street no longer exists but interesected Townsend Street which does. Townsend Street and Castle Street - where my John ran a Blacksmith business in 1865 (Belfast Directory) intersect.
Ritchie's Court was about a 10 minute walk to St Mary's where Alexander senior & Sarah Heyburn married.
I have some "new" old O/S maps off Central & north Belfast.
Una
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St Patrick's RC Church is very close to Little Patrick & Great Patrick Street.
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This is presumably William's coversion record - and he has said he was born 1854 not 1852.
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And this is James ;D :-D
Ha Ha naughty Alexander senior!
When did Elizabeth McVicker die?
St Patrick's is minutes away from Great & Little Patrick Street.
Una
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John Moody conversion
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Map
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map
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Map with St Annes
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Map Coates Street (where Ritchies Court was)
Castle St (where John Moody ran a Smith) Bottom of map just marked Ca
St Mary's RC Church (where Alexander married Sarah) Move to the right of the map
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This would also explain how my Gt Grandmother met my Gt Grandfather James Peel as he lived on Townsend Street.
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Do you know why none of the family appear on the 1901 Irish census? John was dead by then.
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Ritchie's Court location Lennon Wylie 1861 Ulster street Directory
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/rcomplete1861.htm
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Hi Sandra,
I have found a will (and 2 codicils) on Proni of an Andrew Moody of Dundonald, County Down (actually a suburb of Belfast) who died 2 March 1870 that make me feel that my John is linked to this family. The will refers to properties in Joy Street and my family lived in numerous properties in Joy St - my Gt Grandmother was born in number 31 Joy Street and I know of a cousin who was still living in Joy Street in 1965. There are other references to Joy Street properties in my tree.
Anyway, i will keep digging.
Kind regards
Una
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Hi Una
This is all just fantastic! You know I had hit a brick wall until I went to Belfast in 2012. It was there that I discovered the history regarding John's birth (who until then I didn't know existed), and Alexander, William and James' connection with the Church of Ireland and all the information I sent over to you last night. I had no idea of that as I was under the distinct impression that we were of a completely Catholic background. I was concerned about this John Moody and of course, if we could just find out his mother's name, the mystery would be solved but there are so many coincidences it just could well be him. You've done brilliantly to come up with the info on Andrew Moody because other than his being the first of our Moodys, I know nothing else.
As far as the 1901 Census and none of them being on there goes ... as you say, John was dead by then but Alexander and William both came to and settled in Glasgow (Govan) in 1876/77 after they had married. James, the younger brother and son of Alexander & Sarah, is noted on the Glasgow/Govan census of 1881 as lodging with Alexander and his wife Phoebe Hainey (also from Belfast and they married in St Patrick's, as did William & Margaret Harkin). After that I have no knowledge of his whereabouts. Their father Alexander (who was married to Eliza & Sarah) is recorded as having died in Glasgow in 1905 and is buried here in St. Peter's Cemetery. Other than that, I don't know anything else. He's not on the Glasgow census of 1901, as far as I can tell.
The one thing that bothers me is that 'your' Moodys appear to have some means whereas my Moodys, at least when they came to Glasgow, look like they were actually quite poor.
I'm hopeful of getting over to the Glasgow Family History Society next week and it would be great if I could get more information there, especially now that I have what you've given me to work with as well.
I'll keep in touch Una and let's see where we go with this. So far, we're doing great!
Regards
Sandra
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Here is the link for Proni Wills
http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearch.aspx
search on Andrew Moody died 1870.
There is no reference to Alexander but I feel that the Joy Street link is too much of a coincidence for this not to be my family. The value of the estate seems to be less than £300 and in another place Head rent is referred to so I am thinking that Andrew might only be a leaseholder not a freeholder.
Andrew Moody was a Presbyterian and maybe he wasn't too happy when Alexander became RC?
Maybe he didn't even know about the existence of James Peel b1863 ?
I'm going to put this all on my tree on ancestry.co.uk and see what pops up as a result.
Kind Regards
Una
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This is John Moody's daughter Sarah Agnes Moody (my great grandmother b1868) and her daughter Sarah Agnes Peel b1901 - my granny.
Una
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I think I have found James in 1901 Scottish census :-
Glasgow Kelvinhaugh
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 91 Yorkhill St
Occupation: Railway Caster
wife Annie and children Alexander 1 & William 2
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I think I might have found Alexander Moody in Govan in 1871
Name: Alexander Moody
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relationship: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Registration Number: 646/1
Registration district: Govan Church
Civil Parish: Govan
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 164 Main Street
Occupation: Labourer In Ship Yord
ED: 24
Household schedule number: 71
LINE: 9
Roll: CSSCT1871_143
Household Members:
Name Age
John Carroll 28
Anna Carroll 27
Alexander Moody 20
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Hi
The Griffith's valuation shows Andrew Moody as leasing his farm - not the owner. The owner is Robert James Tennent. Ditto the properties in Joy street
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Hi Una
If Andrew Moody is yours with all the connections you're able to make and I know he's mine for sure ... then I think we can safely say we have a match, as far as John is concerned. We just need his mother's name to confirm it absolutely but I'm more and more convinced. Unfortunately, this James is not our James. I had already looked at him on Scotland's People and he doesn't check out with my line. I also already have that record on Alexander and he may well be the Alexander who came over with Phoebe in 1877 but I can't fully confirm that he's 'ours'. My tree is on My Heritage and I'd like to invite you to join as a member because I really think we're getting somewhere here. I'll send you a private message in that respect. I haven't done that in a couple of years so let's see how I get on.
Regards
Sandra
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Hello again Una
Just popped back on here to check out the PRONI link and there's now a wee bit of a backward step :-\. This Andrew Moody's wife is called Anna ... my Andrew's wife is Frances. Now, it's not to say that he didn't re-marry but something else that needs to get confirmed ... 2 steps forward and 3 steps back! >:(
Sandra
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I spent all day digging around Andrew Moody's family in Dundonald and found nothing to link him to Alexander :P
The properties he leased in Joy Street were not properties my ancestors lived in.(Source : Griffith's Valuation)
Andrew Moody was born in 1782 (Source : Gravestone Inscription Drumbo Parish Church)
He seems to have married at least twice - Sarah Ann who died in 1833 buried in Drumbo Church of Ireland Parish Church (where Andrew Moody of Dundonald was buried in 1870). They had a child Jane who was born in 1919 who died aged 12 (buried Drumbo) so it seems likely that this was his first marriage.
His second marriage was to Anna Chancellor buried Knockbreda 1884. Anna Chancellor & Andrew's first child was born c1837 (James Renwick Moody) - so it's unlikely he married in between. (as Sarah Ann died 1833)
His grave inscription in Drumbo describes Andrew as "Of Belfast". He had a daughter who was born about 1825, Sarah Moody, who married John Short in 1848 in Belfast. Andrew's occupation is noted as farmer.
Does that cover everything?
Thanks for the messages. :D
The search continues. ;D
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Here is another Alexander Moody but a bit too early. He was baptized in May Street Pres Church on 3rd Mar 1839. Father's name was William Moody. Mother was Mary Fletcher. Residence was Trafalgar Street. It might be another bit of the jigsaw.
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Thank You Cyclamen. I have made a note of it.
:)
Kind Regards
Una
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Hi
I sent off to GRONI for the marriage cert of Alexander Moody & Sarah Heyburn and they found nothing. They said they searched 1867 to 1871 - the marriage being in 1869. So for some reason it hasn't been registered. I did suspect this might be the case as I couldn't find it in the civil registration listings on either ancestry.co.uk or Family search. Hey ho. I guess the record on UHF must come from the actual parish register?
Just wanted to also mention that my John Moody's b1844 son Charles b1870 baptised his youngest daughter Frances Jospephine and also my Grandmother named her first child (my aunty) Frances Josephine... might give a link with Alexander's mother being called Frances.... or not ! ;D
I will ponder 8)
Unax
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Govan fair have you found any record of the death of Eliza nee McVicker?
Una x
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unabobby
Just in case you weren't aware, historic b/m/d searches can now be done online at GRONI from your own computer. You need to purchase credits, but at least you could try searching again yourself (maybe names mis-transcribed). I've found a birth already this week where it is obvious, being able to see for myself, that the mother's surname is mis-transcribed, hence if previously searched for under her correct name, it wouldn't have shown. Similarly, a birth I couldn't get result for first time using the mum's surname, then turned up when i removed the surname. Reason being the mum's surname had been indexed as 'Illegible'.
You can access the new site at:
https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk
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Thank you scotmum I will try that.
Unax
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Are Unitarians Presbyterian's?
I have found two more Moody converts Jane & Louisa Moody at St Patrick's RC. Jane converted on 21 December 1856 (witness Ann Donaghy) & Louisa 18 Jan 1857 (same witness Ann Donaghy) - both described as Unitarian converts.
Una
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Una,
For Unitarians see http://www.unitarian.org.uk/intro/history.shtml
Regards
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If you look at PRONI Guide to Church Records pages 106 and 107 you will be able to see the Unitarian Churches (non subscribing) in Belfast.
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I found 2 more Moody children protestant conversions in St Malachy's in 1864:- Margaret Jane & Mary Moody
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Margaret Moody & mother Sarah (Heyburn?) census 1901
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And here is Margaret in 1911 living in......JOY STREET!
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OK Margaret Moody marr William Simpson 1876 - I need to find her father's name and have just been locked out of GRONI..... so back laters!
Una
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Hi,
I think that the Simpson/Moody marriage took place in 1875 and her father's name was William Moody
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Thanks Kingskerswell
ancestry.co.uk has it has 1876. Do you think yours is the same one?
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Hi,
Same names and religion. 10 Oct 1875 Belfast (Urban 6) R.C. Church. Two sources agree.
Regards
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Thank you so much.
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Hi
This is an extract from PRONI Calendar of Wills & Administrations. In the column marked Registry can anyone tell me what "Principal" means? Instead of say Belfast? For example Frances Moody W(ill) Principal 1864 or Andrew Moody W(ill) Belfast 1870, Andrew Moody W(ill) Principal 1872
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-23426-1586-22?cc=1921305
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Hi,
There were three registration offices for wills in Ulster, Armagh, Londonderry and Belfast. I assume that "Principal" refers to the main registration office in Dublin.
Regards
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Thank you so much. Unfortunately, Frances' will shows she was a spinster.
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I came across this map and thought of this thread. It shows Smithfield in relation to Little Patrick St etc.
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Hi Guys
With the new RC records coming on line I have found my link with Randalstown and the Alexander Moody (the farmer ) who got into a fight and lost his life that I mentioned in my original post - so my Alexander Moody is not the guy who died in Scotland.
Just thought I'd give an update to anyone using the thread in the future.
So the will of Mary Moody mentioned on the 2nd page - with references to Mary and Alexander's children - Mary, Margaret, Elizabeth, Alexander & Hugh are also my family.
Thank You for all your help.