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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ross & Cromarty => Topic started by: KatieKazoo on Sunday 12 September 10 00:15 BST (UK)

Title: RESOLVED! THANKYOU SO MUCH! Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: KatieKazoo on Sunday 12 September 10 00:15 BST (UK)
Please help - I'm going round in ever decreasing circles. 

On behalf of my ailing grandmother, I'm searching for her grandmother's family. Here is what I know, which all takes place in the Applecross area:

Alexander Matheson of Culduie (1807 - 1892) married Janet MacLeay/Livingstone of Camusterrach (1808-1878) on 12/01/1838 in Applecross.  They have 5 daughters:

Twins: Isabella and Mary, born about 1840
Ann/Annie: born about 1852
Twins: Catherine and Margaret, born about 1855

I can trace both Catherine and Margaret in 1861 on the Eilean na Ba (Cow Island) off the coast from Toscaig (with parents and grandfather, Kenneth Matheson) and in 1871 in Camustiel, Applecross (with parents).  Catherine then moves to Stirlingshire and I know what happens to her.

Isabella, Mary and Ann all marry and have children and remain in Camustiel.

However, this is what I cannot find for the life of me:

Any birth or christening record for either Catherine or Margaret
Any trace of Margaret after 1871.
Any death certificate for Margaret.

My grandmother believes that Margaret lived out her days in Lochcarron but this is unconfirmed. She also believed that Catherine and Margaret were born on Raasay but a friend there has been able to find no trace of them whatsoever. I suspect they were born either in Applecross or on Cow Island but my searches have proven fruitless.  If anyone can help me, I would be enormously grateful and so would my gran.

Thanks so much in advance. KK
Title: Re: Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 12 September 10 00:37 BST (UK)
Hi and welcome to Rootschat

By the time of the 1881 census - Margaret could well have married so any death would be under her married name

I found this on the IGI

MARGARET MATHESON    Spouse:  JOHN MCGREGOR     Marriage:  30 DEC 1875   Avoch, Ross And Cromarty
 
Title: Re: Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 12 September 10 08:08 BST (UK)
Hi Katie

Can't see Catherine and Margaret's birth entries post 1855 and the start of official registration (likely born c. 1854?), but these look to be the entries on IGI for the first set of twins:

1. ISABEL MATHESON  Christening: 25 MAR 1839 Applecross
2. MARY MATHESON Christening: 25 MAR 1839 Applecross

Mother shows as: Mary or Janet McLea.

Sister Ann must have been born c. 1850 as she shows, aged 1, in 1851:

Alex Matheson 44, Fisherman & Ag Lab
Janet Matheson 35
Isabella Matheson 11
Mary Matheson 11
Ann Matheson 1

Address: Culdine, Applecross

Monica  :)
Title: Re: Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 12 September 10 08:23 BST (UK)
Apart from the marriage that Carole found, one more possibility for Margaret. There is a marriage showing on Scotlands People in 1876 for a Margaret Matheson and Peter MacLean (in Kilbrandon, Argyll I think).

This looks a possible entry for that family in 1881:

Peter McLean 31, labourer
Margt McLean 26 b. Applecross G, Rossshire
Merdock McLean 3
Alexd McLean 2

Address: Gate, Kilbrandon and Kilchattan, Argyll

For 1891:

Peter McLean 41
Margaret McLean 36
Murdoch McLean 13
Alexander McLean 12
Jessie McLean 9
Duncan McLean 7
Maggie McLean 5
Robert McLean 3

Address: Kilbrandon

Looks possible, but need to be confirmed  :)

Monica
Title: Re: Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: KatieKazoo on Sunday 12 September 10 13:19 BST (UK)
Hi Monica and Carole

Thanks for the welcome!

The family you foundnd in Culduie is the right family and I had also found the christening records in IGI.  Though why on earth the mother is listed as Mary or Janet is beyond me.  All the official records I have list her as 'Janet' and occasionally as 'Jessie'.  'Jessie' is in fact the name which has been passed down through the family line, rather than 'Janet'.  I'm told it's a simple matter of Gaelic translation as to which one you choose.

What I'm struggling to understand is why such God-fearing people would not have had Catherine and Margaret christened - or if they did, why there aren't any records.

The 1855 birth date for Catherine and Margaret could be out by a year or two. I'm largely going on Catherine's death certificate which says she was 72 when she died in 1927.

Thanks for the tip-offs for the other marriages for Margaret - I'll check them out later and let you know what I find!

KK
Title: Re: Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 12 September 10 16:05 BST (UK)
A number of Scottish first names have a number of well know variants, which were used at random on different documents you see when researching. This is a great site for first name variants, with a special bias towords Scotland www.whatsinaname.net  Janet and Jessie are a good example of name variants of the same name. Some are not so obvious, such as Isabel and Elizabeth or Peter and Patrick.

As to why we are not seeing the Old Parish Register entries for Catherine and Margaret, could be down to a number of reasons. We know the family belonged to the established Church of Scotland (presbyterian) because we can see other entries on the Old Parish Registers for them. One of the main reasons for missing entries can be simply that over the years records have been lost or destroyed.

IGI at www.familysearch.org is pretty accurate on entries from the start of official registration in Scotland, 1855, up to around 1874ish when the Mormons stopped loading on Scottish records. Can't see anything on IGI for the girls on there pre or post 1855.

Let us know how you get on finding out more on Margaret  :)

Monica

Title: Re: Twins RESOLVED : Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: KatieKazoo on Sunday 12 September 10 20:30 BST (UK)
Monica

I cannot tell you how loudly I just screamed!!!!!  It's Margaret - it's actually her.  She's living nowhere near Lochcarron.  Goes to show how family lore can throw you.

I've been hunting for her for weeks/months.

I don't know who you are or where you are but I could actually kiss you right now.

YIIIPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Thankyou thankyou thankyou!

Can't tell you how grateful I am.  Must go and compose myself now before I ring my gran.

KK xx

Title: Re: Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 12 September 10 21:49 BST (UK)
 ;D That's great! Your gran will be so chuffed with all your hard work!

Just to finish off the censuses for you, from 1901 - all the children born in Kilbrandon:

Peter Mclean 51, general labourer, b. Lochbuie, Argyllshire
Margaret Mclean 47, Applecross
Duncan Mclean 17
Maggie Mclean 15
Robert Mclean 12
Peter Mclean 9
Colin Mclean 7
Jenet Mclean 81, grandmother (likely mother to Peter?) b. Knock Hatch, Argyllshire (never heard of Knock Hatch  :P likely a specific place name, rather than District etc.)

Address: No 15 xxxx?, Kilbrandon and Kilchattan, Argyll

Monica  :)
Title: Re: Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 12 September 10 21:55 BST (UK)
There is a member on www.GenesReunited.co.uk (Catrin) who potentially has the two eldests sons of Peter and Margaret on her tree on there - Murdoch b. 1877 and Alexander b. 1879 b. in Kilbrandon. Perhaps connected to this family?

Monica

Added: Think they must be connected  :) They also have Margaret with her birth in Applecross in 1855.
Title: Re: RESOLVED! THANKYOU SO MUCH! Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: KatieKazoo on Sunday 12 September 10 23:35 BST (UK)
Yup, I picked up the 1901 census.  It's all fallen into place.  I'm so pleased - a huge family mystery solved.  Margaret died aged 93 in 1947.  My gran was 27 years old by then and my uncle had already been born.  I'm pretty sure she never knew her great aunt was still alive so it would be lovely to track down surviving members.  I'll follow up the Genes Reunited trace.

Wierdly, the lady on Genes is Catrin - I'm Catherine, so is my gran and so is her grandma - which is where this all began...

Thankyou again so much for your help.

KK

Title: Re: RESOLVED! THANKYOU SO MUCH! Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: KatieKazoo on Sunday 12 September 10 23:42 BST (UK)
Final question.  I haven't queried on Genes before.  How would I find this member and her tree to try to make contact?

KK
Title: Re: RESOLVED! THANKYOU SO MUCH! Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 13 September 10 00:01 BST (UK)
You can search for tree matches without being a member (I think you need to register first which is free still I believe) - I searched for McLeans born in Kilbrandon. Once you see a a relevant entry with member's name, you can do general searches with other specific names (as I did for Margaret) to see whether the same tree owners' names show..does that make sense  :P

I have a subs to GR (not sure why as I never use it!), which you need in order to send messages to other members. If you don't, happy to contact them on your behalf and pass on details  :)

Monica
Title: Re: RESOLVED! THANKYOU SO MUCH! Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: KatieKazoo on Monday 13 September 10 09:59 BST (UK)
Monica - That would be great and really kind of you - I don't subscribe to Genes.  I'll try to send you a PM now with my details.  Thanks,  KK.
Title: Re: RESOLVED! THANKYOU SO MUCH! Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: IainBhan on Friday 08 October 10 16:32 BST (UK)
I've just registered at this site and don't have a clue how it works.  Mary Matheson was, though, my great grand mother.
Title: Re: RESOLVED! THANKYOU SO MUCH! Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 08 October 10 19:15 BST (UK)
Hi IainBhan

Welcome to RootsChat  :)

Is your Mary the Mary christened on 25 MAR 1839 in Applecross?

Monica
Title: Re: RESOLVED! THANKYOU SO MUCH! Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: KatieKazoo on Friday 08 October 10 22:43 BST (UK)
I've just registered at this site and don't have a clue how it works.  Mary Matheson was, though, my great grand mother.

Hello Iain,

If it's the same Mary, she is my great-great-grand-aunt.

My Mary's details are briefly as follows:

Mary Matheson, christened 25 March 1839 in Applecross. Parents = Alexander Matheson and Janet McLeay aka Jessie Livingstone.

She married Donald McDonald, 13 Jan 1866 in Applecross and lived in Camustiel until her death in 1920. She had 5/6 children.  1 or 2 Murdochs, Kenneth, John, Alexander and Catherine.

If this is your Mary, please do reply.  I'd love to make contact! 

You can send a Personal message once you have made 3 general posts, I think

I look forward to hearing from you.

KK
Title: Re: RESOLVED! THANKYOU SO MUCH! Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: IainBhan on Saturday 09 October 10 10:25 BST (UK)
Helo Katie,
                           Alexander Matheson and Janet Macleay (Livingstone is an anglicised version) had five daughters. 

Mary my great grandmother maried Donald Macdonald
Her twin, Isabella, married a Thomas Mackenzie
Annie married Donald's brother John
Margaret married Peter Maclean and
Catherine you know about. 

I have a letter, addressed to my grandfather, from Katie informing him of Maggie's death.  You will know who these people are.

Regards,

Iain
Title: Re: RESOLVED! THANKYOU SO MUCH! Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: KatieKazoo on Saturday 09 October 10 17:49 BST (UK)
Hello Iain - So pleased to (virtually) meet you!  I had traced the marriages and deaths of all the 5 sisters and knew about their children from census info and IGI. Obviously I knew a lot about Catherine's (Katie's) children and grandchildren and have recently been finding out a lot about Maggie's children and grandchildren.  However, I had not had opportunity to research very much on Isabella's, Mary's or Annie's children so I am absolutely delighted that you found this thread and responded!

I'll send you a PM, to let you know where to find my family tree and tell you about a newly-found cousin, if you don't know him already.

Best Wishes

KK
Title: Re: RESOLVED! THANKYOU SO MUCH! Twins: Catherine and Margaret Matheson
Post by: IainBhan on Saturday 09 October 10 18:33 BST (UK)
Hello Katie,

I look forward to hearing from you and will also forward more recent info.

Regards,
Iain