RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: HistoryFan on Wednesday 08 September 10 03:16 BST (UK)
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Henry Paul Penhall and his wife Eliza Penhall (nee Church) immigrated to Adelaide in 1857 with their young daughter Jane Ann B Penhall (passenger transcription list her also as Eliza, but she was in fact a Jane).
Jane Ann Bawden Penhall died in 1879 aged 23 in Adelaide.
Henry and Eliza had further children in Adelaide. These are the ones I know of:
Henry Penhall (date of birth not known). He married a lady named Ellen, but date not known or if they had children.
Joseph Penhall (date of birth not known). He married a lady named Hannah. I know of one son John Penhall who died aged 2 in 1892.
John Penhall born 1865, died 1893 aged 28 in Adelaide. Do not think he was married.
William Robert Penhall, married Mary Lavinia Bowen in 1892, and had two children Annie E B Penhall (who died aged 14 in 1907) and Henry Thomas Penhall (who died in 1931 aged 30).
Thomas Penhall, married Selina Odgers in 1893, 3 children that I know of Harry, Edie and Elsie.
Edith Emma Penhall born 1873 died 1894 Adelaide aged 21 years
What I would like to know if possible is the maiden names of Ellen and Hannah (who married Henry and Joseph Penhall respectively).
Also the birth of Annie E B Penhall in 1893. What do the E and the B stand for?
Many thanks
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a marriage that may be of some interest to you
Jane Ann PENHALL aged 19 single
father HenryPenhall married 11/7/1874 at the Residence of Henry Penhall moonta mines book 100 page 179
John Hugh BAWDEN aged 21 single
father Henry BAWDEN
Jenn
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Births of children of Henry Paul PENHALL and Eliza CHURCH
PENHALL Joseph Henry
15 Mar 1858 at Kooringa Bur 13/396
PENHALL John
2 Dec 1860 at Bur 22/28
PENHALL Henry Paul
19 Mar 1862 at Kooringa Bur 24/138
PENHALL William Robert
7 Dec 1867 at Moonta Dal 60/7
PENHALL Thomas
6 Jun 1869 at Moonta Dal74/174
PENHALL Edith Emma
22 Aug 1873 at Moonta Mines Dal 125/386
and
Birth as requested
PENHALL Annie Ellen Bennick
23 May 1893
Father William Robert PENHALL Mother Mary Lavania BOWEN
At North Adelaide Ade 523/3
now for the marriage regs of the children.
Cando
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Joseph Henry PENHall aged 26 and single father Henry PENHALL
married at Trinity church SA book 139/731
Hannah TAMLIN aged 23 and single father John TAMLIN
will leave the rest to CANDO to avoid duplication :D
JEnn
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You have Joseph's ....Jenn do you want to do the female marriage ;D
PENHALL William Robert 24 years Single Father Henry Paul PENHALL
BOWEN Mary Louisa Levinia 21 years Single Father Thomas BOWEN
4 Jul 1892 at Residence of Thomas Bowen, Gladstone Cla 172/20
PENHALL Thomas 24 years Single Father Henry Paul PENHALL
ODGERS Selina 24 years Single Father John ODGERS
12 Dec 1893
At All Saints Church Hindmarsh Hin 177/1182
PENHALL Henry 32 years Single Father Henry PENHALL
BROWN Ellen Laura 26 years Single Father William T BROWN
27 Feb 1896
At Wesleyan Parsonage Quorn Fro 186/777
Cando
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Thank you so much, yes this is interesting indeed.
I have a photo of Jane Ann's Grave and her name is given as Jane Ann Bawden, the daughter of Henry and Eliza - so I'd assumed (wrongly) that Bawden was just another part of her middle name.
Thank you, this is excellent, now I know for sure she was married.
a marriage that may be of some interest to you
Jane Ann PENHALL aged 19 single
father HenryPenhall married 11/7/1874 at the Residence of Henry Penhall moonta mines book 100 page 179
John Hugh BAWDEN aged 21 single
father Henry BAWDEN
Jenn
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I couldn't see a marriage up to 1916 for Edith PENHALL and as my death index died a while ago I cannot see if she died young
thanks Jenn
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Henry Penhall (date of birth not known). He married a lady named Ellen, but date not known or if they had children.
HistoryFan
No births in South Autralia.
Cando
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Thank you so much Cando and Tropicalj, so hugely appreciated indeed.
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Joseph Penhall (date of birth not known). He married a lady named Hannah. I know of one son John Penhall who died aged 2 in 1892.
HistoryFan
PENHALL Annie
18 Oct 1884
Father Joseph Henry PENHALL Mother Hannah TOMLIN
At Adelaide Ade 338/348
PENHALLHenry
22 May 1887
Father Joseph Henry PENHALL Mother Hannah TOMLIN
At Adelaide Ade 397/313
PENHALL John
22 Mar 1890
Father Joseph Henry PENHALL Mother Anna TOMLIN
At Adelaide Ade 459/319
PENHALL John
19 Apr 1893
Father Joseph PENHALL Mother Anna TOMLIN
At Adelaide Ade 520/211
Cando
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At Moonta Cemetery
BAWDEN, JANE ANN
Section- East 15
Plot/Grave/Niche- 719e
Age at Death- 23 YEARS
Date of Burial- 02.03.1879
Grave Depth- 7 feet
(ALONE)
Sue
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Thomas Penhall, married Selina Odgers in 1893, 3 children that I know of Harry, Edie and Elsie.
HistoryFan
Regs so you know their dates of birth and full names.
PENHALL Harry
25 Mar 1894
Father Thomas PENHALL Mother Selina ODGERS
At Hindmarsh Hin 538/335
PENHALL Edith Emma
27 Aug 1895
Father Thomas PENHALL Mother Selina ODGERS
At Brompton Hin570/98
PENHALL Elsie May
16 May 1898
Father Thomas PENHALL Mother Selina ODGERS
At Brompton Park Hin 622/194
Cando
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BAWDEN Henry born 4/9/1875 at Yelta book 156 page 45
father John Hugh BAWDEN mother Jane Ann PENHALL
Jenn
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I am researching ODGERS (Selina) family in Adelaide.
Father: John ODGERS
Mother: Hanora LYNCH
Selina was their youngest daughter, born in Fremantle Western Australia.
Selina and Thomas PENHALL buried West Terrace Cemetery.
Thomas with the Penhalls, Selina in a separate grave further back in the Cemetery.
Chn: Harry PENHALL died Waverley, NSW, 14 June 1949.
Edith Emma PENHALL m 23 Feb 1914, Adelaide, to Percival Herman GEYER. Edith died Sydney, 1964.
Elsie May PENHALL m Arthur Thomas LEWIS. Elsie died 8 Oct 1931, Mile End, Adelaide. Bur 10 Oct 1931, WTC.
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Re Henry Paul PENHALL and Eliza CHURCH
They had another daughter, Martha, born 24 Sep 1859, Kooringa, Burra, SA, Book 17, page 642, listed as PENNULL.
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Hi pflint :)
Welcome to rootschat. I am sure your contributions will be most welcome by HistoryFan.
I missed Martha's birth when searching for the PENHALL births. I usually search just using the mother's name as well :-[
Do you have fufther details of Martha..marriage or death?
Cheers
Cando
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Hi cando
No - no other details to date for Martha, either marriage or death.
I have learnt to always do wildcard searches, as sometimes people found impossible ways to spell names!
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Hi cando
No - no other details to date for Martha, either marriage or death.
I have learnt to always do wildcard searches, as sometimes people found impossible ways to spell names!
Thank you so much pflint for this exta and most welcome information.
Eliza Penhall (nee Church) had a younger sister named Martha also, so this totally fits that she would name a daughter Martha too.
Martha Church married Herbert R Green and immigrated to South Australia in 1889 and another unmarried sister Agatha Church immigrated sometime after 1881.
Agatha died in 1902 and was buried in the grave with Jane Ann Bawden (eldest daughter of Henry and Eliza Penhall)
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Agatha died in 1902 and was buried in the grave with Jane Ann Bawden (eldest daughter of Henry and Eliza Penhall)
and yet by Sparretts posting she is alone in the grave Jane that is :)
Jenn
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Agatha died in 1902 and was buried in the grave with Jane Ann Bawden (eldest daughter of Henry and Eliza Penhall)
and yet by Sparretts posting she is alone in the grave Jane that is :)
Jenn
I wonder if it was because Agatha was added some years after Jane?
The Gravestone says
Jane Ann Bawden, the beloved daughter of Henry and Eliza Penhall, who departed this life January 28th 1879 aged 23 years. Then there is a long and beautiful poem.
At the foot of the grave it says
"Also, Agatha Church, beloved Aunt of the above, who died 20th January 1902 aged 64 years"
I wonder why there is no mention of Jane Bawden's husband or her wee son on the grave? Made me curious.
Thanks again tropicalj for all your wonderful help.
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The husband married again and had more children
I dont know what happened to her son perhaps someone will be able to find his death
I can add the remarriage and children if you want them
Jenn
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The husband married again and had more children
I dont know what happened to her son perhaps someone will be able to find his death
I can add the remarriage and children if you want them
Jenn
Oh yes please Jenn.
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Agatha died in 1902 and was buried in the grave with Jane Ann Bawden (eldest daughter of Henry and Eliza Penhall) History Fan
The records of the MOONTA CEMETERY do not show that AGATHA CHURCH is interred with JANE ANN BAWEDEN
http://www.coppercoast.sa.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=764
Likewise, there is not a record that I can find of the child being with her.
I do not mean to contradict your own records, merely to say there seems to be a gap in the Cemetry 's
ADDING
It is not uncommon for a person to be memorialised at one cemetery whilst being actually placed at another. I wonder if this is the case here/
Sue
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I would think the cemetery records are correct and as Agatha died in Adelaide, I would suggest she has only been memoralised on the headstone. She died in hospital or place of care.
CHURCH Agatha
20 Jan 1900 64 years
Residence Gawler Death Place Fullarton Ade H 283/152
Unfortunately death certificates in 1900 give little information.
From South Australian Resources at the top of the board
Information on Death Certificates
1842-1907
* Date of Death
* Name
* Sex
* Age
* Occupation
* Usual Residence
* Cause of Death
* Place of Death
* Informant
Cheers
Cando
Sorry Sue...didn't see your edit :)
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Agatha died in 1902 and was buried in the grave with Jane Ann Bawden (eldest daughter of Henry and Eliza Penhall) History Fan
The records of the MOONTA CEMETERY do not show that AGATHA CHURCH is interred with JANE ANN BAWEDEN
http://www.coppercoast.sa.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=764
Likewise, there is not a record that I can find of the child being with her.
I do not mean to contradict your own records, merely to say there seems to be a gap in the Cemetry 's
Sue
Hi Sue,
The photo I have of Jane Ann Bawden's Grave is from West Terrace Cemetery Adelaide. The two graves on the left of Jane's contain Henry and Eliza Penhall and their son Thomas and on the left of that John Penhall, nephew John Penhall, Edith Penhall and Henry Penhall.
So maybe the Moonta Cemetery Grave is another Grave for our Jane Anne Bawden.
Is that possible do you think? All the other data adds up doesn't it? Same parents, dates etc.
Interesting. I agree it does sound like buried in one and memorialised in another.
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I would think the cemetery records are correct and as Agatha died in Adelaide, I would suggest she has only been memoralised on the headstone. She died in hospital or place of care.
CHURCH Agatha
20 Jan 1900 64 years
Residence Gawler Death Place Fullarton Ade H 283/152
Unfortunately death certificates in 1900 give little information.
From South Australian Resources at the top of the board
Information on Death Certificates
1842-1907
* Date of Death
* Name
* Sex
* Age
* Occupation
* Usual Residence
* Cause of Death
* Place of Death
* Informant
Cheers
Cando
Sorry Sue...didn't see your edit :)
Thanks cando.
On the photo of the grave it looks like Agatha died on 20/1/1902.
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The photo I have of Jane Ann Bawden's Grave is from West Terrace Cemetery Adelaide
Sorry I thought we were talking about the Moonta Cemetery...so to help make things a little clearer. Two Jane Ann BAWDEN/BOWDEN's.
Death of the Jane Ann BOWDEN in Moonta cemetery.
BOWDEN Jane Ann
28 Feb 1879 23 years Married Relative John Hugh BOWDEN
Residence Moonta Mines Death Place Moonta Mines Dal 94/30
BAWDEN Jane Ann
Cemetery Moonta Cemetery
Section East 15
Grave 719e
Age at Death 23 years Date of burial 2 Mar 1879
Cheers
Cando
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The photo I have of Jane Ann Bawden's Grave is from West Terrace Cemetery Adelaide
Sorry I thought we were talking about the Moonta Cemetery...so to help make things a little clearer. Two Jane Ann BAWDEN/BOWDEN's.
Death of the Jane Ann BOWDEN in Moonta cemetery.
BOWDEN Jane Ann
28 Feb 1879 23 years Married Relative John Hugh BOWDEN
Residence Moonta Mines Death Place Moonta Mines Dal 94/30
BAWDEN Jane Ann
Cemetery Moonta Cemetery
Section East 15
Grave 719e
Age at Death 23 years Date of burial 2 Mar 1879
Cheers
Cando
Yes this is the same lady. On the gravestone pic I have Jane Anne Bawden, died 28th January 1879 aged 23 years. West Terrace Cemetery
I think this is one of those surnames that has shifted from Bowden to Bawden and back again.
Genealogy never gets boring, always learning something fresh, thinking further outside the box!
Thanks so much again Cando.
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The Moonta Cemetery information which I gave, as you did Cando allows, by its date the expected time lapse between the death and the burial .
Sue
ADDING
Regarding the WEST TERRACE memorial which you have seen.
I suspect it is a case of double memorialisation for JANE and burial for AGATHA.
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Spot on Sue.
Bit slow today :-[ and realised after posting that the details were for the same person. Cemetery/Burial records indicate Jane Ann was definitely buried at Moonta. The spelling variation may simply be a mistranscription from the registers to the death index. Her name would not be in the burial register if she was buried elsewhere. The Burial Register for West Terrace Cemetery may give you more information.
I also wonder would a body be transferred from Moonta to Adelaide in the heat of February in 1879 :-\
The Moonta cemetery/burial register states she was buried on 2 Mar 1879
BAWDEN Jane Ann
Cemetery Moonta Cemetery
Section East 15
Grave 719e
Age at Death 23 years Date of burial 2 Mar 1879
http://headstones.weebly.com/moonta.html
No headstone at Moonta for Mary Jane, only a burial record.
Whew ;D
Cheers ;D
Cando
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I think I can clarify this.
There are monuments for a family of Bawden's in Moonta including a Jane but she died in 1877 aged 24.
But I have now located from the WTC cemetery Burial Records.
BAWDEN Jane Ann died 28/2/1879. aged 23 residence Moonta Mines. Brought from Moonta Cemetery 15/7/1893
so she was initially interred at Moonta as the burial records indicate but some 14 odd years later her remains were moved to WTC.
Cheers Kris :)
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How extremely unusual!!
Sue
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I think I can clarify this.
There are monuments for a family of Bawden's in Moonta including a Jane but she died in 1877 aged 24.
But I have now located from the WTC cemetery Burial Records.
BAWDEN Jane Ann died 28/2/1879. aged 23 residence Moonta Mines. Brought from Moonta Cemetery 15/7/1893
so she was initially interred at Moonta as the burial records indicate but some 14 odd years later her remains were moved to WTC.
Cheers Kris :)
Thank you so much for looking into this. How interesting indeed. It appears the family moved from Moonta Mines and on 11/5/1893 Henry and Eliza's son John Penhall died and was buried at WTC as were subsequent family members.
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Can either/or/both Kris or Cando look to see if there just might be a death for Henry BAWDEN who's birth details are
BAWDEN Henry born 4/9/1875 at Yelta book 156 page 45
father John Hugh BAWDEN mother Jane Ann PENHALL
thanks Jenn
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John Hugh BAWDEN aged 28 and SINGLE ??? father Henry Bawden
Married 15/6/1882 at the BC Parsonage Port Augusta Book 131 page 1188
Mary HENERY aged 21 and single father James Henery
This marriage says he was single and not a widower but the ages and father’s name do match.
So it is an ssumption on my part that it is the same man
Children born to John Hugh BAWDEN and Mary Henry/Henery
May Evelyn 9/9/1882 at Port Augusta 290/277
John Henry 27/7/1884 at Port Augusta 333/128
Cornelius 27/5/1886 at Port Augusta 376/20
Myrtle Nellie 5/6/1888 at Glanville 418/118
Hilda 6/10/1891 at Glanville 488/5
Ivy Lavinia 1/7/1898 at Portland Ward 625/312
Lyly 4/5/1902 at Tin Town 694/352
Jenn
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Sorry, no I cannot see either a marriage or a death listed for John and Jane BAWDEN's son Henry. Wonder what became of him.
Apart from that I had the second marriage and family to John Hugh which Jenn has listed. He died
BAWDEN John Hugh 14 Sep 1931 Exeter Dist PtA 531 495. He was aged 78 married relative not recorded residence Exeter.
Nothing in the BISA
entry for Janes family
PENHALL Henry Paul born about 1832 Cornwall died 7 Jul 1901 buried WTC arrived 1857 aboard the HENRY MOORE occupation Miner religion C/E
married Eliza born about 1833 who died 29 Feb 1908
chidlren Jane Ann BAWDEN 1855-1979, John 1864-1893, Thos 1868-1939, Edith Emma 1872-1894
Cheers Kris :)
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John Hugh BAWDEN aged 28 and SINGLE ??? father Henry Bawden
Married 15/6/1882 at the BC Parsonage Port Augusta Book 131 page 1188
Mary HENERY aged 21 and single father James Henery
This marriage says he was single and not a widower but the ages and father’s name do match.
So it is an ssumption on my part that it is the same man
Children born to John Hugh BAWDEN and Mary Henry/Henery
May Evelyn 9/9/1882 at Port Augusta 290/277
John Henry 27/7/1884 at Port Augusta 333/128
Cornelius 27/5/1886 at Port Augusta 376/20
Myrtle Nellie 5/6/1888 at Glanville 418/118
Hilda 6/10/1891 at Glanville 488/5
Ivy Lavinia 1/7/1898 at Portland Ward 625/312
Lyly 4/5/1902 at Tin Town 694/352
Jenn
Thanks again Jenn.
I just looked on the NLA Newspapers and found that Cornelius was known as Neil and died during World War I (1918), on the 'in memoriam' record for 1919 for Neil, May is mentioned as a May Collins, brother John is Jack, there are two sisters Lyle (wonder if this should be Lyly) and a Rene (that's a new one), there is Hilda and Millie (maybe Myrtle was known as Millie).
The only one I can't reconcile is Ivy - could she have been informally known as Rene?
Anyway, all very intriguing and a ***huge*** thank you to you.
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I am new to RootsChat, and only today discovered this "conversation" about the Penhalls and Bawdens. I am not really sure how the system works and hope this message (my first) is appropriate and posted correctly.
I am a descendant of Henry Paul Penhall and Eliza nee Church. My great-grandparents were Jane Ann Bennicke Penhall and John Hugh Bawden - my grandfather was their son. I have researched the Penhall and Bawden families for a number of years and can answer most of the queries which have been posted.
Do I assume that the people who have posted these messages are researching these families too? I would be happy to share information
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Hello Jas1.
Welcome in! Are you descended from Henry Bawden born in 1875? He looked to be the only child of Jane and John Bawden.
My connection with the family is through Eliza Penhall (nee Church's) youngest sister Martha Church, who married Herbert Rider Robert Green. Martha had 4 sons and 1 daughter - she named her daughter Eliza Ann Bennicke Green.
The Bennicke name came through many generations from the Cornish roots didn't it?
Martha emigrated to Adelaide in 1889 with her family. Her daughter was born in Adelaide but the sons all in Guernsey, Channel Islands.
Would love to know more about the Penhalls and Church's and if there is any information I can help you with, would be pleased too.
I found that Eliza Penhall's brother James Church moved to Guernsey and lived there with his cousins' the Lanyon's. So I have Census data on him. Also Agatha before moving to Adelaide lived in Guernsey for a while as well.
Kind Regards
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Do I assume that the people who have posted these messages are researching these families too?
Hi JAS1,
No, The contributors on this thread will probably not be related to your family unless they have specificallly mentioned it.
Rootschat is an open forum where members simply try to help others in their family searches. Many are very experienced and some amazingly well resourced to offer leads and concrete information.
Good luck! :D
Sue
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I am glad my message was correctly posted, and it is good to make contact. I only came across this site yesterday by accident, and it was both exciting and frustrating to see all the queries and responses knowing that I knew many of the answers.
Yes, my grandfather was Henry Bawden, the son of John Hugh Bawden and Jane Ann Bennicke Penhall. There was at least one other son who died as an infant, but my grandfather was the only one to survive. He was only three when his mother died and was brought up by his Bawden grandparents. As your correspondents discovered, John Bawden remarried and had a number of children, including Cornelius (Neil) who died in the first war. My grandfather moved to Victoria for work in the 1890's and married there, so nearly all his descendants live in Victoria. To a very large extent, the Bawden name from his line seems to have died out; similarly, I am not sure how many Penhalls from this line also still carry the name.
I have the impression that Grandpa might have lost contact with the Penhall family, and I assume that the Penhalls initiated the re-interment of poor Jane Ann (known as Annie) at West Terrace. I knew very little about this family when I started and I still have no personal contact with any descendants, and it has only been in recent years that I tracked down the Penhall graves at West Terrace and also discovered Agatha Church's connection.
I have been communicating with a researcher in the UK and have discovered something of the Penhall-Church-Bennicke connection, but it is early days yet. I wondered if other members of the Church family had come to Australia, other than Agatha.
I would be delighted to share my findings with you and vice versa. How do we do this? Where to from here?
Sue: I am still very uncertain about how Rootschat works. I assume that one can contribute to any discussion, and also add messages after the initial conversation is finished? I am sure these are dumb questions, but is there a listing of "old" discussions on this site, and will new contributions get to the person who initiated them? How does one initiate a new discussion?
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JAS1
We should be able to Personally Message each other to exchange information, known as (PM). Just look up my profile and you will see that you can send me a message (as we can't put email addresses here on this site)
I am happy to exchange any information that I have.
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Sorry to be thick - I looked up your profile but couldn't find how to send a personal message! Any clues for the uninitiated?
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I have sent a personal message (hopefully)! Will get back to you later. We have a lot to talk about.
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Sorry to be thick - I looked up your profile but couldn't find how to send a personal message! Any clues for the uninitiated?
see theittle green scroll to the left of the message and under your name/avatar thats for sending messages, it will also indicate if the person is online or offline
to start a new topic just go to the board you want to us ieAustralia and click New topic and go from there
I have no connections to the Penhall family just a fellow researcher of family history be it yours or mine.
Jenn
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Thanks Jenn, I need all the help I can get! I eventually got onto the correct personal message area so we are now comparing notes. It's a great delight to find someone researching in the same area - rather than being a sole operator all the time.
I will follow your instructions and put a new message on. Maybe you can help me!
By the way, another question: how do I add information such as areas of interest etc onto my personal profile page?
Thanks again.
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next to the green scroll the square box with the face on is profile information
click on that and you will see
Profile Info
Summary
Show Stats
Show Posts
Modify Profile
Membership Related Settings
RootsChat Profile Information
Look and Layout Preferences
Notifications and Email
click on roots chat profile information and go from there
good luck
JEnn
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Hi JAS1.
A Big Welcome to RootsChat. ;D
For information on RootsChat please visit our detailed help pages where you will find information on how the site works and answer to all your question re how to do things on the site.
http://www.rootschat.com/help/index.php
All the Best.
Kris ;D
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Hi, In a small hamlet named Wellington where the river Murray joins Lake Alexandrina in South Australia resides a lady named (*)l. I wonder what she knows. Colin Dugan.
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Thanks, Colin? Do you have reason to believe she belongs to my clan? Would she welcome contact?
John
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Jas1,
(*)
Regards,
Colin,
Moderator Comment: details of living person removed for privacy and security reasons. Please use our secure PM (Personal Message) system to share personal details. Thank You.
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John Hugh BAWDEN aged 28 and SINGLE father Henry Bawden
Married 15/6/1882 at the BC Parsonage Port Augusta Book 131 page 1188
Mary HENERY aged 21 and single father James Henery
This marriage says he was single and not a widower but the ages and father’s name do match.
So it is an ssumption on my part that it is the same man
Children born to John Hugh BAWDEN and Mary Henry/Henery
May Evelyn 9/9/1882 at Port Augusta 290/277
John Henry 27/7/1884 at Port Augusta 333/128
Cornelius 27/5/1886 at Port Augusta 376/20
Myrtle Nellie 5/6/1888 at Glanville 418/118
Hilda 6/10/1891 at Glanville 488/5
Ivy Lavinia 1/7/1898 at Portland Ward 625/312
Lyly 4/5/1902 at Tin Town 694/352
Hi I have just started to search my mothers side of the family, put a name in google a little bit of research and it brought me here I am new to this so hope I am doing it right, my great grandfather was John Hugh Bawden he may have been the husband of Jane Ann Penhall but my family is not aware of any marriage prior to him marrying my great grandmother but it could be possible, John Hugh Bawden was married to my great grandmother Mary Henery ,my grandmother was Lyle Bawden born in tin town on the 4/5/1902 I grew up with her in Exeter Adelaide I knew Hilda and Rene which I am assuming is Ivy lavinia as I know of no other sister with this name, May lived close by but Lyle was not on speaking terms with her ,I never met her though not sure what happened to Violet, I remember Lyle talking Of Neil often who died WW1 and her sister Millie who died of TB, Mary my great grandmother died of a possible brain annerism when Lyle the youngest was 14 , John or Jack as he was known died of a stoke at the age of 78 he was living with my grandmother Lyle and her husband at Exeter at the time, this Bawden line did indeed die out as no sons were born to John or Neil, not sure if this is revelent to anyone that has posted but thought I would comment as you had been discussing them and you may be interested.
Cheers Shelley
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John Hugh BAWDEN aged 28 and SINGLE ??? father Henry Bawden
Married 15/6/1882 at the BC Parsonage Port Augusta Book 131 page 1188
Mary HENERY aged 21 and single father James Henery
Hi I have just started to search my mothers side of the family, put a name in google a little bit of research and it brought me here I am new to this so hope I am doing it right, my great grandfather was John Hugh Bawden he may have been the husband of Jane Ann Penhall but my family is not aware of any marriage prior to him marrying my great grandmother but it could be possible, John Hugh Bawden was married to my great grandmother Mary Henery ,my grandmother was Lyle Bawden born in tin town on the 5/4/1902 I grew up with her in Exeter Adelaide I knew Hilda and Rene which I am assuming is Ivy lavinia as I know of no other sister with this name, May lived close by but Lyle was not on speaking terms with her ,I never met her though not sure what happened to Violet, I remember Lyle talking Of Neil often who died WW1 and her sister Millie who died of TB, Mary my great grandmother died of a possible brain annerism when Lyle the youngest was 14 , John or Jack as he was known died of a stoke at the age of 78 he was living with my grandmother Lyle and her husband at Exeter at the time, this Bawden line did indeed die out as no sons were born to John or Neil, not sure if this is revelent to anyone that has posted but thought I would comment as you had been discussing them and you may be interested.
Cheers Shelley
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Hello Shelley,
I haven't looked at this site for some months and was delighted to see that you have been on line in recent weeks. I hope you get this message.
John Hugh Bawden was also my great-grandfather; he married twice, firstly to Jane Ann Bennicke Penhall who died in 1879 leaving one son, Henry Bawden, my grandfather (there was at least one other son from this marriage who died as an infant). John Hugh later went on to marry Mary Henery and had the following children: May Evelyn (Collins/Miller), John Henry (unmarried), Cornelius (died WW1), Myrtle Nellie (infant death), Violet (Drummond/Tobin), Hilda (Tomsen), Josepha Mildred (Todd), Albert James (infant death), Ivy Lavinia (infant death), Thelma Irene (Friend), Lyley (Bussenschutt).
My grandfather was brought up by his grandparents Henry and Josepha Bawden (nee Matthews) after his mother died, and was probably closer to his uncles and aunts than his own father and step-siblings. Grandfather came to Victoria in the early 1890s, and all contact with SA seems to have been lost after his father died in 1931.
I have researched the Bawden family for many years, and more recently the Matthews and related families. I have much to share with you if you are interested. The Bawdens have been a most difficult family to trace (there being no living male descendants with the Bawden name), and I have made contact with no other Bawden descendants (apart from my own line) except a daughter of Violet Tobin.
I look forward to you getting in touch
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Hi, I am a descendant of John Hugh Bawden and Mary Henery.
Their children were (besides Johns first son John Bawden to his first marriage):
May Evelyn (Collins/miller) my Grandma my Grandpa being Percival Alfred Wescombe MILLER.
Cornelius, John Henry, Hilda, Josepha Mildred, Ivy Lavinia, Lyly, Myrtle Nellie, Voilet, Hilda, Albert James, Thelma Irene.
My Mother was the only child to May Evelyn and Percival her name Olive May Bament ( née Miller).
May was first married to Alfred Collins they had 4 children, 3 boys and 1 girl. Alfred died at age 31 from I think a heart or lung condition. May died in 1966. She lied about her age telling most she was born in 1882 but I have her birth certificate and she was born in 1888, making her almost 16 when she first married and 16 when her first son Alfred was born.
Hope this fills in some of your missing pieces. Can't help with the penhall side sorry.
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Hello Colleen,
It is wonderful to hear from you, and you would be only the second descendant of John Hugh Bawden (apart from my own branch) with whom I have ever had contact. My grandfather Henry, of course, was John Hugh's first child by his first marriage with Jane Ann Penhall. The Penhalls and the Bawdens have been very difficult families to trace because of the dearth of male descendants bearing the Penhall or Bawden name.
Are you also tracing the Bawden family, because if so I would be happy to share notes. Most of my information has come from family memories from my late mother and her sister, as well as the SA Indexes, and more recently Trove. My grandfather Henry came to Victoria in the 1890s, and after John Hugh died he seems to have lost contact with the SA family. My mother remembered meeting Hilda and one other sister once, and Cornelius worked in Victoria before he went to war.
I would very much like to share my findings, and fill out more of the story. One mystery I have never been able to solve is the death of Josepha Bawden, wife of Henry Bawden senior and mother of John Hugh. I was told she died before her husband died in 1909, and she was also dead in 1893 when her youngest daughter, also named Josepha, married Arthur Shepley, so her death must have been between 1867 (when her last child was born) and 1893. But when and where did she die? There doesn't seem to be any government registration of her death, even under Bowden. Do you have any idea?
I assume you live in SA; I am in Melbourne. With thanks, John Schubert
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Hi John,
Yes a pleasure to know a descendant of the Bawdens. I am still researching a lot myself, so apart from what you probably already know, I can't tell you much more at this stage. I have the names, birth dates and death dates of May's children to Alfred Collins, They would be a half blood line to you. I lived next door to my Grandma (May) with my parents at 116 Carlisle street, Glanville, she at 116a.She died when I was 5 I only just remember her. She left my mother out of her will because she never liked my father. And Perival her 2nd husband (my grandpa) died before I was born. May's children to her first marriage never had children, not any of them. One died from TB around 20 (Lionel), Ron had suffered from Polio and had a crippled leg (my favourite half uncle, I remember him well, Ronald) Harold also died of TB about age 60, Uncle Len was an alcoholic who caused much grief and lived with May til death. Mabel died young as well. We used to have to hide under the lounge if we were visiting May and Len came home drunk, she would then hustle us out the door once he locked himself in his room where he eventually died. May was a very grumpy old woman from what I remember. Uncle Ron was the last to die at 116a Carlisle st. He loved my mum dearly and she him, leaving her everything in his will, so she ended up with all what her mother didn't want her to have anyway. May's children to the first marriage were young when AlfredCollins died, so I guess she had a difficult life for a while. I do have some photos of her, but none of any Of her siblings or parents, except Cornelius, I obtained a copy of his Army Records with photos.
Are you the same person who wrote to the army on behalf of your mother?
Yes I am in SA and I am 54 years old married with 3 sons and a daughter all adults and one Grandson. My maiden name was Bament and my married name is Leighton. If you have any photos of any Bawdens you would be happy to share, that would be great, or any other info and vice versa.
Colleen
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Hello Colleen,
Yes I would appreciate the full names and birth/death dates of your grandmother's family. I have her birth date recorded as 9.9.1882, Port Augusta, and I guess I got that from the SA Indexes. I have her first marriage as 1.8.1904, Alberton and the second as 15.10.1921, Semaphore. I also have your grandfather's name Westcomb with an "e" on the end. Is that incorrect?
I have no photos beyond my grandfather Henry, and would love one of John Hugh Bawden, and the copies you have of Cornelius. I am happy to share any photos I have.
I am happy to send you some of my files of information, and I am happy to send you my personal email, unless you would prefer to keep our correspondence only via RootsChat.
Do you have the details of John Hugh's parents and siblings: JH was the eldest son of Henry and Josepha Bawden (nee Matthews), and was born in Cornwall in 1853 (died 1931). His first wife was Jane Ann Bennicke Penhall (1856-1879) and second wife was Mary Jane Henery (c1860-1923). Siblings to JH were Samuel (1855-1941) married Sarah Webb; Mary Emma (1858-1944) married William Ward; Frederick Henry (1864-1936) married Sarah Field; Joseph Matthews (1866-1866); Henry Cornelius (1867-1867); Josepha (1868-1952) married Arthur Shepley. Do you have any contact with descendants of any of these people?
Henry and Josepha Bawden migrated with their two eldest sons JH and Samuel about 1856, and he worked as a miner at Kapunda, Wallaroo, Moonta and Port Augusta.
Yes, I am the person who wrote to the Army in the 1960's about Cornelius. My brother and sister have both visited his grave in France, and I can send you a photo if you wish.
I am married (66), retired, but my wife still works as an optometrist. We have two adult children and three grandchildren.
Its great to share this material with another family member,
John
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Hi John,
Your email would be more practical for me to reply to. I have an IPad and can just easily photograph anything I have (photos or documents and then just attach them straight from my IPad to your email address.
I will gather up what I have and send to you once I have your email. Unfortunately I don't have any photos of John Hugh or Mary at this stage. Although my mother's photo albums had many unnamed photos in them. My eldest sister is 67 she may have more of an idea or heard more when she was growing up. Anyway I am more than happy to let you have and know anything I have on any related Bawdens, etc. if I stumble across any info about Josepha will inform you immediately. Sometimes these family trees can go on forever, as I have found out with my family's main names. I only stumbled across some Bawden info and decided to go back a little on them as well.
Also, my Grandma (May), was born in 1888 not 1882. Sometimes the records from back then I have found can be wrong. I obtained her birth certificate which I can also photograph and send to you. Maybe she did not want people to know she was so young when she obviously fell pregnant and had to marry. I don't even think my mother knew.
Kind Regards,
Colleen
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