RootsChat.Com

Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: dom3merlin on Tuesday 07 September 10 17:07 BST (UK)

Title: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: dom3merlin on Tuesday 07 September 10 17:07 BST (UK)
I am needing some help in transcribing the names on this record. The bride and groom and his parents are easy enough. But the bride's mothers maiden name is unreadable. Looks like Bloxhaum to me ... Any other ideas? According to a census return Matilda B. McKay was born in Ireland circa 1821.

Dom
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: carol8353 on Tuesday 07 September 10 17:09 BST (UK)
Bloxham or Bloxburn?

Carol
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: snaptoo on Tuesday 07 September 10 18:09 BST (UK)
I would agree with Bloxham.

snaptoo
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: Maggie1895 on Tuesday 07 September 10 21:40 BST (UK)
I turned it into the 'Paint edit' option because sometimes it's easier to read or trace that way, and I think like Carol it could be either Bloxham or Bloxburn if they put a curl on the top of the lower case 'b'.
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: Geoff-E on Tuesday 07 September 10 22:19 BST (UK)
Scotland's People has exactly zero BLOXBURN events ... ever.  A few dozen BLOXHAMs but not too many.

The name BLOXHAM is centred on Warwickshire in England http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=BLOXHAM&year=1881&altyear=1998&country=GB&type=name
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: Rena on Tuesday 07 September 10 22:23 BST (UK)
I've had a look in an online book with the search term:

"Irish Surnames"

http://www.archive.org/

Only one result which was; ... for the guidance of Registration Office .....

I opened the book & searched for "Blox" ;

two surnames were listed, which were "Bloxham" and "Bloxsom"
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: Maggie1895 on Tuesday 07 September 10 22:25 BST (UK)
What was the bride's christian name?    I'm trying to work out the style of forming some of the letters
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: Geoff-E on Tuesday 07 September 10 22:37 BST (UK)
What was the bride's christian name?    I'm trying to work out the style of forming some of the letters

Jessie isn't it?
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: Maggie1895 on Tuesday 07 September 10 22:42 BST (UK)
Geoff, that's what I was seeing, but wanted to be sure I was looking at the letters properly, there's quite a high up stroke on the 's' in Jessie.   Agree with you, I did a quick SP Search, ditto the pilot site for Ireland, and couldn't find anyone with the Bloxburn name at all
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: Maggie1895 on Tuesday 07 September 10 22:53 BST (UK)
Dom, what else do you have on Jessie?    Searching Scotland census for 1861 and 1851 there are an awful lot to choose from, and you probably already have the records.     
It's not that I think her mother's maiden name is magically going to pop up on a census return, but the more we have about the family the better chance there is that something might turn up
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: dom3merlin on Wednesday 08 September 10 10:56 BST (UK)
Dom, what else do you have on Jessie?    Searching Scotland census for 1861 and 1851 there are an awful lot to choose from, and you probably already have the records.     
It's not that I think her mother's maiden name is magically going to pop up on a census return, but the more we have about the family the better chance there is that something might turn up


Hi Maggie,

According to my sources, Jessie Helen McKenzie was born circa 1849 in Perth, Scotland. I don't have the birth registration info otherwise I would naturally order a birth certificate and hope the mom's maiden name reflected on that. The LDS vital record of Jessie's marriage (http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage&c=fs:1771074&r=r_695271771&pn=p1) doesn't unfortunately list the parents. Interestingly Matilda did turn up on a census return when she was visiting Jessie and her husband in 1871. She is listed as Matilda B. McKenzie born circa 1821 in Ireland. This is my only clue as her origins at the moment.

I actually suspected that the Matilda's maiden name could be Black as one of her grandsons has the name Alexander Black Fraser. But then I came across the marriage certificate and saw that it obviously wasn't. Jessie's father in law, John Fraser, was however the blacksmith of Aberdeen before the family moved Edinburgh. 'Black' could then be a reference to the profession of Alex's grandfather. James was of course a brass molder and later became a Master brass caster. And his children plumbers and artisans with even a few engineers in the family even today. Then again, perhaps the x we are all seeing on the record is really a c, in which case Matilda's surname could be Blackburn rather than Bloxburn or Bloxham. What do you think?

Dom
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: Maggie1895 on Wednesday 08 September 10 19:26 BST (UK)
It must be incredibly frustrating to have sight of the name on a certificate and still not know.

I'm not a lot of help I'm afraid, I can't find any Matilda to McKenzie / Mackenzie marriages in Scotland 1840 - 1850 apart from a Matilda Crichton, and we can rule that out, and the only Irish births I can see around 1820 with a surname starting with a 'B' are Matilda Becket, christened on 18 December 1819 in Antrim and Maltilda Buckley christened on 24 July 1824 in Cork.   

Did you have any luck finding John McKenzie in the 1841 census, or Jessie and her parents in 1851?
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: Maggie1895 on Wednesday 08 September 10 20:39 BST (UK)
Dom, hopefully this will help.

On Scotland's People, if you search for a death for Jessie Fraser, other name McKenzie, in 1916 you will be able to see her death certificate.  Reference is 685/03 0221, and the registration district is Edinburgh City/Midlothian.

You may need to post that certificate on the deciphering board as well, because I could swear her mother's maiden name is given as Dooling!   It is your Jessie though, she is widowed and it gives her husband's details as well as her parents
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: merryhow on Wednesday 08 September 10 20:55 BST (UK)
Hi Dom, IGI has a birth for a Maria McKenzie 1856 Edin. Parish, Edinburgh Parents JOHN and MATILDA BLOCKSON(ext)
          Val
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: merryhow on Wednesday 08 September 10 21:08 BST (UK)
Hi Again,  '51 Census Edinburgh Castle

McKenzie John 40 Soldier b Morayshire
     "        Matilda 36  b Dublin
     "        John 13 b Co Down Newry
     "        Elizabeth 6 b Kings Co Birr
     "        Jessie 2 b Perth Perth
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: dom3merlin on Wednesday 08 September 10 21:15 BST (UK)
Dom, hopefully this will help.

On Scotland's People, if you search for a death for Jessie Fraser, other name McKenzie, in 1916 you will be able to see her death certificate.  Reference is 685/03 0221, and the registration district is Edinburgh City/Midlothian.

You may need to post that certificate on the deciphering board as well, because I could swear her mother's maiden name is given as Dooling!   It is your Jessie though, she is widowed and it gives her husband's details as well as her parents

Thanks for the reference Maggie. Here is the actual image of the death notice for others. I too see Dooling listed as Matilda's maiden name. Do you think she may have remarried?

Dom

Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: dom3merlin on Wednesday 08 September 10 21:20 BST (UK)
Hi Again,  '51 Census Edinburgh Castle

McKenzie John 40 Soldier b Morayshire
     "        Matilda 36  b Dublin
     "        John 13 b Co Down Newry
     "        Elizabeth 6 b Kings Co Birr
     "        Jessie 2 b Perth Perth

Thanks Val. Looking into this now ...

Dom
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: Maggie1895 on Wednesday 08 September 10 21:24 BST (UK)
Val, that's brilliant.   I just did a quick search and if Dom wants the SP reference to get that certificate it's 685/02 0716  
So we now have the one everyone read as Bloxham or Bloxburn, you've found Blockson and I swear that it looks like Dooling on Jessie's death certificate!  Matilda is a real woman of mystery..

Edit:
Dom - just read your latest posts.   If Matilda did marry and remarry after perhaps widowhood I know the surnames can get confused but I would have expected them to be right on the children's birth certificates because she and/or John would have given the information.    On Jessie's death certificate the information is being given by someone at further remove who may not even have known her.     The problem is that as Val has found older children, and her son was born in Ireland, that's probably where the records are and I did do a search on the Irish records without any luck so far.   I suppose it's possible John was from a first marriage - there's a gap before Elizabeth then you get Jessie and Maria along within a few years.    On the other hand he was a soldier and could often have been posted away?     Still, you seem to be unpeeling the onion one layer at a time, as it were, so who know what you'll discover next..
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: dom3merlin on Wednesday 08 September 10 21:53 BST (UK)
Hi Dom, IGI has a birth for a Maria McKenzie 1856 Edin. Parish, Edinburgh Parents JOHN and MATILDA BLOCKSON(ext)
          Val

Thanks Val. I've now found the following IGI record that lists both John and Elizabeth's births in Ireland. (See: http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/IGI/family_group_record.asp?familyid=284240699&indi_id=100239060125&lds=1&region=2&frompage=99 ) From the place names we can at least trace their steps a bit. The IGI reckons a marriage date of 1835 for the couple, so perhaps the kids are all John's and he just moved around a lot on account of active service. Perhaps I have the luck of the Irish on my side after all. Can't wait to get the pot of gold at the end of this mystery ...

Dom
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: dom3merlin on Wednesday 08 September 10 22:51 BST (UK)
Have just downloaded the image for Maria's birth. How great to have actual signatures! Am tracing John's mark now. Thanks for all the help you two, I think we can consider the case closed.

Dom
Title: Re: Can't decipher name on Scottish marraige record
Post by: Maggie1895 on Thursday 09 September 10 23:25 BST (UK)
Dom, can you satisfy my curiosity?   If you've downloaded Maria's birth certificate have you finally sorted out the puzzle of Matilda's maiden name?

I can understand different people recording Bloxham or Blockson if they just heard it said, but then the Dooling came in - did you solve the mystery?