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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: susan willis on Monday 06 September 10 16:20 BST (UK)
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ive a missing link in my husbands tree that ive never managed to put to bed, wonder if anyone on here can maybe have a look and see if they can .as follows;
george webb b.1852/3 worcester
jane matthews b. 1849 silverdale staffordshire
ive never been able to find a marriage. they had there first child rose elizabeth in 1873 in litchfeild hednesford.
there second child nora/noah was born in castleford in yorkshire in 1878/9
the family then went to cowpen quay tynemouth northumberland,
in 1881 they are in bowes street cowpen
1891 they are in milburn street cowpen
in 1901 they are in hartlepool
in 1911 they are still in hartlepool
they had other children as follows
rose elizabeth webb b. 1873 litchfeild staffordshire
nora/noah b.castleford 1878/9
william george b. 1888 cowpen
ann jane b.1885 cowpen
charlotte .b.1890 died 1891 cowpen
mary ann b. 1890 cowpen died 1901 hartlepool
ada florence b. cowpen 1891
ellendeane b.1901 hartlepool
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im replying to my own post so that i can finish my query as unable continue my previous post for some reason.
i am missing the marriage of george and jane and also trying to establish why they moved around as much as they did and as far, never been able to find george or jane prior to to 1873,any help would be much appreciated
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I had this problem a couple of times!
Perhaps Jane married before George Webb, in which case she would
marry George under ..... Jane ???? (1st husbands married name)
I would look through all possible George Webb marraiges marrying a
'Jane' and work backwards if you find one.
Alyson123
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1891 Census puts Janes birth in Silverdale Lancashire,
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I know this isn't going to help you find the missing marriage but just to clarify the references to Cowpen.
Cowpen Quay is nowhere near Tynemouth (about 10 miles away). The enumeration district of Cowpen in relation to the streets you mention would now be in modern day Blyth. Likely church for baptisms would be St. Mary's.
Christine
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thanks for that, but already aware, of that info. reason i said tynemouth is because when i have searched for this family it comes up with tynemouth northumberland and sometimes cowpen quay or village but never blythe. i actually live in the north east so know the area quite well. just to add insult to injury on some records for blythe are listed as in morpeth. sue
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Hi Sue,
It's pretty confusing for anyone who knows Blyth as it is now but back then it did not exist as a place in either census, parish or civil records.
Waterloo Road is a good guide - everything to the north was Horton Parish (St. Mary's being a chapel of ease from about 1864 until it became a parish in it's own right in 1897). Census district was Cowpen and civil registration district was Morpeth.
South of Waterloo Road was Earsdon parish (St. Cuthberts being a chapel of ease for that parish). Census district was Earsdon and registration district Tynemouth.
You'll also find Blyth as we know it referred to as South Blyth - the original Blyth being north of the river!!
Christine
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Silverdale is in Lancashire as pointed out earlier, on the Lancashire side of Morecambe Bay. No sign of the Matthews in 1851. The only likely Jane Matthews birth is registered at West Derby which is a suburb of Liverpool. There is a John and Julia Matthews born Ireland with a daughter of the right age born Lancashire, also a visitor called Rose Wood which might be the origin of Rose Elizabeth.
Bit conjectural, but Silverdale was full of well to do families in 1851 and they might have been employed there for a while.
Peter
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thanks peter, that a usefull bit of info about silverdale been full of the well to do , could be her parents worked there and that was how come she was born in the place, just found out that here is only about 1600 people lived in the place.been going over my webbs stuff but not much to go on with jane other than she is definatly a matthews, checked back through all the census and they all say born in staffordshire apart from the 1891 which says silverdale, but on her daughters birth certif her last child born hartlepool in 1901 she has just left her mark so obviously she was unable to read and write so maybe she didnt know where she was born. I have never been able to find her marriage to george, just have to keep looking i suppose. sue
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hi christine, thanks for the blythe info , a freind of mine comes from there and her parents still live in blythe so i usually pick her brains. but im still trying to establish why they went to live in blythe, been doing some googling but when they lived there george is a cartman so dont think he had a trade of any sort, and when he came to hartlepool he was a telephone engineer. so i think maybe george had family there as there, as seems a long way to come from staffordshire via yorkshire and why blythe? sue
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We werent all well to do in Silverdale ,lots of little boat builders and fishermen ,
not much has changed there its a lovely place,if I go I will have a look around the local church yard and see if the name pops up on any headstones,
Gillian
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Where Born for Jane.
The 1881 census (page ref 5091-143-48) has George or Jane informing the census enumerator, either in writing or verbally, that she was born in (the county of ) Staffordshire. (the family only gave counties, rather than places for births of them all !)
The 1891 census ( 4237-102-33) has the Cowpen enumerator entering "Silver Dale" for the "Where Born" of Jane ( again from written or verbal info from the family). Then it looks as though enumerator's "supervisor" on checking the forms, sees that a county is missing and so adds " Lancs" ( and Yorks for child)
To me it is clear that Jane was born in Silverdale, Staffordshire. This Silverdale lay within the Registration District of Wolstanton ( near Stoke)
Michael
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thanks guys for the info. i thought that by narrowing down where jane was born it might give me an indication of where she was married. i found some parish records for silverdale but no matthews although there where some webbs which is interesting. the thing that is odd is that i cannot find a record of janes birth anywhere so if thats were she was born , wheres the record and with silverdale being such a small place thought that it would be easy,have tried variations in the searches ie warton and others but still nothing, also changed the years of her birth, as going over my records on the 1911 census she is age 55 and 1901 45 . in 1881 she is 32. i know she couldnt write as she has made her mark on her daughters birth certificate. the other strange thing is the baptisms, she had her last child in 1901 they were living in hartlepool on the 1901 census but are listed as wright living with another family in wood street in hartlepool, by the time ellendeane was born they have there own house in wood street hartlepool were they lived for many years ,but whilst i have found ellendeane,s baptism record , ive found nothing for all the other children.and noah, ada florence and rose elizabeth are gone. i have access to the parish records for hartlepool but after many happy hours have found nothing.sue
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Susan,
Do not know where you got Jane's surname " Matthews" from !
Within the Wolstanton, Staffs, Reg District, there is a birth registration for a Jane Ann MATHERS, March Qtr 1849. ??
If Jane could not write as an adult ( e.g. on her dtr's birth registration) maybe she could only communicate her surname orally, and maybe it got varied ( as in Chinese Whispers)
Michael
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from her daughters birth certificate and baptism records, both state matthews as her maiden name, ive got the certificate and seen the parish records, but you never know
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have tried to find a marriage for jane ann mathers to george webb but nothing. but did find a marriage for her to someone else, but that means nothing i suppose.sue
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Sue,
When you find a piece of info that might be relevant, it might be a good idea to share with your potential helpers, e.g. like the fact that the Webbs were recorded as Wright on 1901 census.
So what are the details of the Jane Ann Mathers marriage to "someone else"?
And what name are the Webbs under on 1911.
You see Jane's birthplace as good clue to where she may have been married.
My experience tends to show that the place of birth of the first child, is good clue to where married !
Michael
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ok the webbs in 1911 as follows:
george webb has died in 1907
1911 census return
17 mozart street hartlepool
jane webb widow age 55 housekeeper
william george webb age 23 single
florence webb age 20 servant
samuel webb age 17 single
ellendeane webb age 10.
on the 1901 census i was unable to find the webbs although i knew they were living in wood st hartlepool as i had got ellendeanes birth certificate and she was born in january 1901 in 24 wood st , so i checked the census for that street and found them living with another family same address 24 wood st, henry scott as head but the kids are all mixed up as scotts and wright , but having said that im sure its them as when ellendeane was baptised they are living in 24 wood street as the webbs, so im assuming that they lodged with that family for a while and then moved. i could be wrong of course and would welcome your view as to whether it is the correct family or not. i dont have the 1911 census , so i had a freind do the look up for me but its correct as far as i know and samuel webb was my husbands granfather and he was married from 17 mozart street in 1916 and the girl he married lived in 41 wood street half of hubbys family lived lived in wood street, maternal and paternal.
sorry if i didnt make myself clearer;.will have another look for a mathers marriage near to where the first child of jane was born see if anything turns up sue.
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michael/havent been able to find a marriage of a jane ann mathers to george webb tried diffrent timescales, and places ie hednesford and litchfeild, from 1870 to 1873 2 marriages for jane ann mathers in 1873 earnest chell and george rowley.sue