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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: NealBuckley on Friday 03 September 10 20:23 BST (UK)

Title: Alternative names
Post by: NealBuckley on Friday 03 September 10 20:23 BST (UK)
I have a marriage for Hannah Oldfield to a William Walton in 1818 but she crops up with william in 41 and 51 census as Mary. Most of the children on the cenus appear in Parish records as mother Hannah, Could Mary be an alternative name for Hannah?

All suggestions appreciated.

Neal.
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 03 September 10 20:27 BST (UK)
Or did Hannah die before 1841 and William re-married to Mary??
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: NealBuckley on Friday 03 September 10 21:53 BST (UK)
You could be on to something with that thought, thanks.

There is a further marriage of a William Walton to a Mary Dawson (widow) in 1828. The last reference to Hannah that I can find is at the birth of her daughter Jane in 1824. There is a further son John born 1827 but no sign of him in Parish births. I've even checked Dawson to see if he's a step son but nothing doing!

The records of burials for St Chad's Rochdale from 1825 to 1843 are a little patchy, if non existent. So, unfortunately, for the time being I can't check on a burial for Hannah Walton.
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: garstonite on Friday 03 September 10 22:37 BST (UK)
Hiya NEAL....these are TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT COUPLES  ..both having children from 1818 at St Chads ,Rochdale 
William Walton and Martha
abode Marled Earth...these are who you are getting mixed up with...

William and Hannah............the marriage is on
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html 
12th January 1818 atSt Chad ,Rochdale
William Walton  X   of this parish   
Hannah Oldfield  X  of this parish
Witness D Nield   G Fletcher
married by Thomas Royds

babtism  10th sep 1820 same church  James Walton  parents William and Hannah
abode Knook Cronkeshaw
occ woollen weaver
Thomas Walton 8th sep 1822 same church  parents William and Hannah
abode  now in Cross Lees
same occ
Jane 8th june 1824 same church  born 3rd May parents William and Hannah ;)
abode Polly Green
same occ
OK gone 6 years after Jane...no more for William Hannah at this church...I`ll see if I can find a death for Hannah....allan
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: garstonite on Friday 03 September 10 22:52 BST (UK)
Hannah Oldfield was babtised 18th August 1794 St Chad ,Rochdale,Lancs daughter of William and Jane ...
this will give you an age to match for Hannah Walton death....allan
ADDED   Death of Hannah Walton aged 43 in 1838 Rochdale on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
this matches the birth in 1794 ....allan ;)
just checked on lancsbmd and lan-opc and can`t see a marriage of William Walto to a Mary from 1838 to 1841...allan
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: NealBuckley on Friday 03 September 10 23:01 BST (UK)
Hi Allan

I'd seen the william and martha marriage and discounted them because their offspring doesn't match what I have on census records for a direct line to my paternal grandmother.

William and Hannah's offspring match the lineage through to the present day: James, Thomas and Jane with the addition of John in abt 1827 but the census gives Mary Walton as mother from 1841 onwards. As far as I can tell either I've gone wrong somewhere with the whole lineage or William re-marries after hannah's death (post 1824 or 27.)

I'm confused now! lol.
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: garstonite on Friday 03 September 10 23:06 BST (UK)
That death in 1838 is the only non infant Hannah Walton I can find in the time frame of 1824 (Janes birth) to the 1841 census...and the age matches exactly....43...it is a possible..allan :)
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: NealBuckley on Friday 03 September 10 23:07 BST (UK)
Thanks Allan.

So that discounts the further marriage of William to Mary Dawson in 1828 as Hannah is still living till 1838, which leaves the riddle of who the heck is Mary on the 41 and 51 census.
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: garstonite on Friday 03 September 10 23:12 BST (UK)
seems a little soon after Johns birth UNLESS Hannah died in childbirth   with 4 kids he would need a new wife asap...I know I would ...lol   allan :)
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: NealBuckley on Friday 03 September 10 23:17 BST (UK)
If Hannah died in 1838 then a re-marriage would have taken place between then and 1841 when Mary appears on the census. That's 3 years to find Mary, court her and then drag her to the altar.   :o
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 03 September 10 23:22 BST (UK)
Son James was b 1820
Last child was b 1827 according to parish records - but - this is the family of the Thomas Walton who married Mary Dawson in 1828:

1841 shows Hannah 13,  Mary 11,  James 9, Jeremiah 7, Susan 2 and a Thomas DAWSON aged 20

HO107 Piece 552 Book 5 Folio 7 Page 6

Births June qtr 1839 
 
Susan Walton   Todmorden  21 774

The children are Walton in 1851 and Thomas Dawson is shown as son in law meaning stepson

 
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 03 September 10 23:37 BST (UK)
Your Walton's in 1841

William Walton 40
Mary   45
James   20
Thomas   18
Jane  16
John  14
Edmund Brearley 35
Hannah  35
Sarah 13
James  11
Nancy 7
Esther 3
Mary  9 Months
HO107 Piece 551 Book 1 Folio 55 Page 9
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 03 September 10 23:40 BST (UK)
There is a June qtr 1838 marriage in Rochdale to Mary Greenwood - Lancs BMD shows it at St Chads

Hannah died March qtr 1838
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: NealBuckley on Friday 03 September 10 23:41 BST (UK)
I've got the begger on Lancashire BMD: William Walton married 1838 to Mary Greenwood, St Chad's, Rochdale.

Well he didn't hang around, did he after hannah's death in 1838. You were right Allan asap with 4 kiddies on his hands. lol
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: NealBuckley on Friday 03 September 10 23:42 BST (UK)
Snap! You beat me to it by a minute.  ;D
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 03 September 10 23:45 BST (UK)
That marriage is on the IGI Pilot website - no date shown but Mary's father was Eli Greenwood and Johns father was also John
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: NealBuckley on Friday 03 September 10 23:56 BST (UK)
I get Mary Greenwood on Online Parish Clerk Project baptised at St Chad's 3 Nov 1794, parents: Daniel Greenwood & Ann.

Fingers crossed, mystery solved. Thanks Carole and Allen.
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 04 September 10 00:00 BST (UK)
The date was 28th May 1838 St Chads and shows fathers as John & Eli so you have a different Mary Greenwood

http://pilot.familysearch.org
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: NealBuckley on Saturday 04 September 10 00:04 BST (UK)
I've just discovered that Carole - Mary Greenwood is a popular name, there seems to be one born every year on the parish record. lol
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 04 September 10 00:04 BST (UK)
The 1851 shows Mary was b 1792

MARY GREENWOOD  Christening:  08 APR 1792   Rochdale, Lancashire  
Father:  ELI GREENWOOD    Mother:  SARAH  
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: NealBuckley on Saturday 04 September 10 00:10 BST (UK)
Baptism: 8 Apr 1792 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Mary Greenwood - Daughter of Ely Greenwood & Sarah
Abode: Studshaw
Register: Baptisms 1792 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 2, Entry 182

That seems to fit almost perfectly. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: garstonite on Saturday 04 September 10 08:35 BST (UK)
Mary (Greenwood ) Walton was 45 on the 1841 census....so
babtism 20th dec 1795 St Chads ,Rochdale, Lancashire
Mary Greenwood
daughter of Daniel Greenwood and Ann( probably Hannah Lawton)
abode   Green, Rochdale
marriage of Daniel Greenwood to Hannah Lawton same church 1785
allan :)
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: NealBuckley on Saturday 04 September 10 09:22 BST (UK)
Hi Allan

The 51 census gives Mary's birth about 1792 which points to a different Mary Greenwood. Can't find her on the 61 though which is a shame as that would provide a check on birth year. One can only presume she died between 1851 and 61.

There are 2 deaths for Rochdale Mary Waltons showing up on BMD (1857 and 1860) and 1 for Sept 1861 but that ones way after the census date of April 7th.
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: garstonite on Saturday 04 September 10 09:39 BST (UK)
Hi Allan

The 51 census gives Mary's birth about 1792 which points to a different Mary Greenwood. Can't find her on the 61 though which is a shame as that would provide a check on birth year. One can only presume she died between 1851 and 61.

There are 2 deaths for Rochdale Mary Waltons showing up on BMD (1857 and 1860) and 1 for Sept 1861 but that ones way after the census date of April 7th.
the 1841 and 1851 census returns gave births WITHIN 5 years...so 1792 to 1795 would be quite acceptable...
if you see someone age 28 on a census in 1841 ...always look  a couple of years either way...allan
Title: Re: Alternative names
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 04 September 10 18:34 BST (UK)
Hi Allan

Whilst the 1841 ages are rounded down to the nearest 5yrs - the 1851 are more "true" to actual birthyears and the 1851 shows her as b 1792

If you look at the marriage entry I posted - her father was Eli not Daniel