RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Suzy W on Thursday 02 September 10 22:48 BST (UK)
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Good morning.
I am a little puzzled on the marriage of Mary Elizabeth Dady to Matthew William Cox about 1880. I have checked the British BMD and no luck.
I know this couple had children in Australia before coming to New Zealand in 1890.
First child was Mary Elizabeth Cox born 1883 Melbourne died 1884
Second child Florance was born 1885 Hothon, Melbourne.
Would some kind person have a look for any reference of a marriage for this couple please?
Regards
Suzy W
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First child was Mary Elizabeth Cox born 1883 Melbourne died 1884
Suzy W
This birth is not registered in Victoria. The death registration only gives the place of death - Melbourne East.
This birth certificate will give you the date and place of the parents marriage.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Birth
COX Florence Amy
Father Matthew William /Mother Mary DADY
At Hotham 1885 Reg#10792
Have you this birth? The father appears to be a FORD.
DADY Amelia Frances Cox
Father Unknown Mother Mary Elizabeth DADY
At Carlton 1888 Reg#1266R
FORD Amelia Frances Cox
Father Unknown Mother Mary Elizabeth DADY
At Carlton 1888 Reg#1266R
I note that the two death DADY registrations in Victoria to 1888 have place of birth as Ireland.
Previous posts
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,320740.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,339218.0.html
Cheers
Cando
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It would appear perhaps this couple may not have married as there is this child born in Victoria
DADY Amelia Frances Cox bon 1888 at Carlton reg no1266R
father unknown mother Mary Elizabeth DADY
Jenn
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A couple of interesting marriages in New Zealand - perhaps Matthew COX an alias for Henry FORD or vice versa or may be another couple altogether :-\
1873/8536
DADY Mary Elizabeth
HYMUS Moses
1874/9049
DADY Mary Elizabeth
FORD Henry
Birth
1875/6526
FORD Alice Wilhelmina
Mother Mary Elizabeth Father Henry
You need some certificates to see if it is your Mary Elizabeth DADY.
Cando
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Some interesting reading ;)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/09ol/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/09on/
Cheers
Cando
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There is no death re for Matthew Cox or Mary Elizabeth in New Zealand. I thought I may of had the right man some time ago but sadly no.
So you are saying try FORD?
Yes I do have the other births kindly given to me before.
Would there of married in New Zealand then went to Australia then came back? Well traveled if they did.
Will have a look for a Mary Elizabeth Ford on my local burial data base.
Cheers
Suzy W
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Thanks Cando.
Hmmm, I wonder if that is her, may explain why I just can not find her, a women of her own means.
I have found in the past people going over the ditch to marry or live in sin, this just may be the case with this lady.
Cheers
Suzy W
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I have found in the past people going over the ditch to marry or live in sin, this just may be the case with this lady.
Suzy W
Surely some certificates would help you here. Information on certificates on Victoria is excellent - you would be able to identify parents by age, place of birth and age. ie on the birth certs.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
This one would most definitely be helpful....place and date of marriage etc.
Birth
COX Florence Amy
Father Matthew William /Mother Mary DADY
At Hotham 1885 Reg#10792
Not familiar with NZ certs but surely this marriage cert would assist your research
1874/9049
DADY Mary Elizabeth
FORD Henry
Have you searched the inwards shipping records in NZ for Mary Elizabeth's and ?? return.
Cheers
Cando
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I have looked for her under Cox, not Dady for shipping records.
Sadly no death reg for a Mary Elizabeth Ford that fits with her age, then again she could of married again.
She certainly has a story to tell.
Regards
Suzy W
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And another birth in NZ
1881/7986
FORD Mabel Edith
Mother Mary Elizabeth Father Henry
Any previous births to Matthew William COX and Mary Elizabeth will be noted on the 1885 birth certificate of Florence Amy in 1885 and possibly any previous births to Mary Elizabeth DADY on the 1888 birth cert of Amelia Francis.
I think it is simply a matter of seeing some certificates and then detective work...good luck.
Cando
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Bingo... Someone on the I.G.I has posted her name, had possible birth Christchurch New Zealand, but no record of her born here.
Also her marriage to Henry Ford.
Will try and make contact with this man.
Cheers
Suzy W
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Oh dear!!
Just wondering if they are the same Mary's? Firstly she was married Moses Hymus for three weeks 1873. Then must of married Henry Ford the next year in 1874 in New Zealand, then she had children to Matthew Cox while in Australia between 1883-1888 :-\
Mabel Edith Ford born New Zealand 1881 and parents marriage 1873, crumbs was Mary a widow by 1883 and had more children to Matthew? What a busy lady ;D
Looks as if a cert is called for, she is starting to bother me.
Regards
Suzy W
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Hi
Bingo... Someone on the I.G.I has posted her name, had possible birth Christchurch New Zealand, but no record of her born here.
Also her marriage to Henry Ford.
Will try and make contact with this man.
Or perhaps consider getting the truth for yourself by following Cando's advice and purchasing a certificate or two.
Some submissions to IGI can be based on very little evidence and, in some cases, I have found wishful thinking.
I recently found a submission for a family member in my tree who never existed. Was invented to fill a gap!
Sue
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I whole heartedly agree with Sue's comments.
If you search IGI you will not find the information
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
The entries are in the Pedigree Resources Files
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=prf/search_PRF.asp&clear_form=true
... and says possibly born in NZ once in 1849 and another in 1870 ::)
IGI include transcribed parish records and these entries are certainly not that. It would appear that the marriage information is simply taken from NZ bdm. If it were me I would be ignoring the submitted information and purchasing a certificate or two....at least you would find her place of birth.
Where possible, always do you own research....much more rewarding ;D
Have you tried to track Mary in NZ...electoral rolls etc?
Sadly no death reg for a Mary Elizabeth Ford that fits with her age,
Suzy W
When do you think she was born? You would need to take this information from one or other of her marriage certs in NZ.
Mary Elizabeth DADY was not born in New Zealand...from the newspaper report of the trial for bigamy.
Mr Joynt : I knew both parties prior to the marriage. Prisoner was keeping a fruit shop in High Street, and she was staying at my house. She had been at service previously. She came out ont he same ship with me. To the best of my knowledge, she knew prisoner nearly a fortnight before the marriage. He told me he had got a legal separation from his wife........
Cando
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According to the Papers past report she was 20 in 1874 so birth about 1854. I have checked the NZ BMD and no sign of her there, so probably born England or Ireland.
I also agree about the I.G.I, once I went back and looked at the results it was not very clear. I normally do not go by other people's work, but if someone had a reference to a not so known name it is always good to follow up.
I will look at NZ archives next for any other leads, and birth cert may have to be ordered for Florance very soon.
Thanks for the help
Suzy W
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I'm having a bad day as I can't see any reference to Mary Elizabeth DADY's age in the newspaper reports. Which one is it is please...the first or second link. :)
Cheers
Cando
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We all have those days ;)
Second article, she states she came to New Zealand as a single women with no relations here aged 20, and told Mr Hymus that she was 21 so she could marry him.
As for no relations this is correct, there are no other references to any Dady's on the NZ BMD. But NZ archives has something on a John Dady convict from Tasmania being sent to New Zealand late 1830's, he did not stay here long and must of returned to Australia. Not sure if there is any connection between the pair, but worth noting. So I am now going to have a look for John Dady in the convict list just for curiosity.
Suzy W
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Ah nothing like a break outside....how on earth did I miss that snippet of info :-[
So 20 years of age in Dec 1873 at time of the marriage. However we still don't know where she was born. I have found a birth and baptism for an Elizabeth Mary DADY but not sure if it is her as the given names are reversed and this person was also Elizabeth on the 1861 census. Really need to find her place of birth on a cert.
Perhaps you may like to seek help on the NZ board for Mary's arrival in NZ. According to the newspaper item, she emigrated on the same ship as Mr Joynt.
Three DADY convicts
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=11
Cheers
Cando
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/09or/
In Lloyds London Weekly Newspaper the following missing friends are enquired for......
Mary Elizabeth Dady who left Woolwich for Christchurch May 1873, is desired to write to her father.
Cheers
Cando
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Suzy spent a bit of time on the Elizabeth Mary DADY whose birth I found in the UK in 1854...she is not your lady as she appears to have married in 1874.
I have also checked military births in the period...nothing.
We need a cert and preferably the one with her marriage to Henry FORD...pretty sure it is your lady.
Puzzled at no birth reg in NZ or Vic but in NSW in 1883....now is the mother your Mary E DADY?
Transcriptions are available in NSW
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm#TranscriptionAgent
1811/1883
FORD Mary E
Father Henry Mother Mary E
District Sydney
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks, sorry for the late reply, had a major earthquake here in Christchurch at 4.30am and power and phones have only been back a couple of hours.
So very tried and not thinking well. Will look at the information you sent a.s.p.
Cheers
Suzy W
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Sounds as though you should have a day away from family history :)
I think the only way forward to establish the DADY/FORD/COX facts is the marriage cert in NZ showing Henry and Mary's signatures and then hopefully, a couple of certs from Victoria or the one from NSW, which will have signatures of Mary at least.
I was thinking about the DADY birth registration in 1888. I wonder when registering Amelia in 1888 the local registrar may have asked the following -
* name of child ..... Amelia Frances COX
* your name ...... Mary Elizabeth FORD ... whoops ::)
* and your former name ...... DADY.
And then it may have become a little confusing for Mary so she didn't name the FORD father as she had just named the child Amelia Francis Cox FORD/DADY.
As I always told my children....if you are going to tell fibs, you need to have a very good memory.
Cheers
Cando
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To add to this,
Henry Ford made an application to send his 3 children to the Burnham Industrial School in December 1882. In his application he made the statement that his wife was dead (ie Mary Elizabeth nee Dady) . No mention of Mabel Edith. It's quite possible this was a convenient lie, in order for his children to be taken off his hands quickly. He was very unlikely genuine in his inability to care for them properly. Mary is also mentioned in information about the 'First Four ships' arriving in Canterbury - Henry was a 1yr old child on the Cressy. Information there states that Mary Elizabeth Dady was born in Malta abt 1853 and that she died in Christchurch in 1894, however there's nothing on NZ BDM to say this is so, under the names of Ford, Cox or Dady.
What a gal!