RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Romaly on Wednesday 01 September 10 03:50 BST (UK)
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I am needing some help with these two please.
I have the four daughters born to this couple but I cannot find their marriage or when they came to Australia.
They lived in the Castlemaine distrcit.
Christina remarried in 1875 to William Bacon and died a widow at Campbells Creek.
Her marriage cert to Wm Bacon says she was called Paine formerly Kerr and was a widow since1864.
Her death at age 73 states that she was in Victoria for 32 years. I have not found a death for Richard Paine. (Payne, Pain, Pane)
thank you
Romaly
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Any of the children's birth certificates would give you the date and place of marriage.
There is this death in 1866 :-\
PAYNE Richard
Parents unknown 57 years Born England 1866 Reg#5390
Cando
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Hi
The man shown by CANDO died 30/6/1866.
He is buried at KYNETON CEMETERY.
Section D
Row 8
Headstone 1 reads...
Sacred/to the memory of/Richard PAINE/Died June 30th 1866.
Sue
ADDING..2 different spellings of the surname in CANDO's and my postings, but certainly same man.
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Thank you very much for those quick replies. I did see that death but to know that he is buried in Kyneton makes him look like my man.
I'll take a look at that cert.
Thankyou
Romaly
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Her death at age 73 states that she was in Victoria for 32 years.
Romaly
The first Victorian birth registration to this couple was in 1856 so she was in Victoria for at least 35 years at time of death.
Is this her death?
BACON Christina
Father Beer James Mother Sarah WRIGHT
73 years at Castlemaine 1891 Reg#14313
Births
PAINE Sarah
Father Richard Mother Christina KERR
At Kyneton 1856 Reg#13545
PAIN Jennet Jane
Father Richard Mother Christina KERR
At Kyneton 1858 Reg#13473R
KERR Jennet Jane
Father not recorded Mother Christina KERR
At Kyneton 1858 Reg#13473R
PAINE Christina Kerr
Father Richard /Mother Christina KERR
Born Kyneton 1859 Reg#15101R
KERR Christina
Father not recorded Mother Christina KERR
At Kyneton 1859 Reg#15101R
PAIN Mary Ann
Father Richard Mother Christina KARR
At Lauriston 1861 Reg#9368R
Death
PAINE Christina
Father Richard Mother Christina UNKNOWN
8 years born Victoria 1868 Reg#1477
Perhaps they never married.
Cando
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Thanks Cando yes thats her death.
I have viewed His death cert now and the informant was the undertaker with no information about the wife but very accurate details of the children , so I'm going to presume that they were not married.
Richard Paine is a farmer on his death, would that mean that he owned his land? as opposed to being a farmhand?
There is no will on the prov site
Cheers and thanks again for your time
Romaly
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I'm going to presume that they were not married.
Romaly
As I mentioned previously, the birth certificates of the children would give the date and place of their marriage however the duplicate registrations usually indicate illegitimate births. I agree with you, I doubt there was a marriage.
Richard Paine is a farmer on his death, would that mean that he owned his land? as opposed to being a farmhand?
Romaly
I have seen quite a few incidents of farm labourers being described as farmers.
Details on all Victorian certificates
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
Cando
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Hi
http://www.archives.tas.gov.au/
I just wonder if the reason for not marrying may have been that he was already married. :(
Convict
Paine Richard Arrival 21 Feb 1836 per Asia (4) departure 08 Nov 1835 from Sheerness.
Application to marry
PAINE Richard To Colony per Asia McDONALD, Mary Ann To Colony per Emma Eugenia Date00 SEP 1846 Ref.CON52/2 p404
Sue
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This Richard born c1807 and the Richard who died in 1866, born c1809.
Marriage
PAINE Richard 39 years
McDONALD Ann 39 years
19 Oct 1846
At Hobart Reg#48/1846
Baptism
PAINE William Charles
Father Richard Mother Mary Ann
25 Sep 1850 At Hobart Reg#3695/1850
Link to his description
http://www.rootschat.com/links/09o9/
Cheers
Cando
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MMmmm..
Very handsome, I'm sure ::)
Sue
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Trawling through the Vic indexes and noticed the following birth.....wonder if this is Mary Anne b. 1861...the Bacon given name made me wonder :-\
PAINE William Bacon
Father Unknown Mother Mary Anne PAINE
At Casterton 1881 Reg#8018
Do you have details of Christina's descendants?
Cando
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Her marriage cert to Wm Bacon says she was called Paine formerly Kerr and was a widow since1864.
Romaly
Could you give some more information from the cert about Elizabeth eg place of birth, names and occupations of parents etc. It is often the small details that help. We may be able to find her birth.
Cando
Deleted incorrect info.... :-[ Spent too much time on this and am getting muddled...sorry sue
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Hi,
I also wondered about the choice of name of the daughter MARY ANN, but from a different angle.
Is anyone able to see the death of the MARY ANN PAINE, wife of the Convict RICHARD PAINE?
Or in fact the death of RICHARD PAINE the convict in TAS?
I am muddled about ELizabeth Kerr. I thought it was Christina Kerr.
Sue
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No death in Tas for Mary Ann PAINE or Richard PAINE.
Cando
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Thank you Sue and Cando for your help.
It is Christina Kerr. She was from Edinburgh and I think I have found her on the 1851 census with her father James Kerr (brewer) her mother was Janet Kerr formerly Wright
Yes Cando the birth you found of William Bacon Paine seems to be the illegit. child of Mary Ann the daughter of Christina and Richard. The will of Christina names William Bacon adopted son as benificiary, so I think he was raised by Christina and Wlliam. (I hope that makes sense)
Thank you for the convict idea That may be him although I may not be able to prove it.
His death cert states that there was a previous marriage for him but no children. Would he name his daughter after his ex wife
I do have other decendant information Thanks.
I will now persue the convict theory. (I haven't read the description yet Sue)
Thank you so much for your time
Romaly
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Digitised online will dated November 1890 for Christina BACON, died 6 November 1891, widow, of Back Creek, South Muckleford, leaving all to her adopted grandson William BACON when he reaches 21. (South Muckleford is about 7k from Castlemaine so it would seem she is the lady whose death Cando found)
Perhaps the grandson is the child Willliam Bacon PAINE born to Mary Ann PAINE 1881?
The will of William BACON, farmer of Muckleford, died 8 Jan 1890 is on the same site. He leaves all to his wife Christina Pain BACON (sic). There is a comment that the name "Pain" is that of a previous husband.
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/indexes/index_search.asp?searchid=54
Judith
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Hi All,
Interesting the daughters were not mentioned in the will.
Married and being "looked after" by then perhaps :-X
His death cert states that there was a previous marriage for him but no children. Would he name his daughter after his ex wife ROMALY.
No, I agree it is unlikely. In my Fam Hist I do have a child of a second marriage named after the deceased wife, but that is not the same thing. ;)
Sue
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Thankyou Judith and Sue.
Two daughters were married with children when Christina died. Son in law was the informant.
One daughter Jennet jane , though I cannot find a marriage or death
One more question. When looking at those Tas archives sites for convicts conduct records, do I have to look page by page ?
Romaly