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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: Hilliard on Monday 30 August 10 12:44 BST (UK)
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Can anyone tell me anything about the Church of Ireland church (Holy Trinity) in Glengarriff? In particular I'd like to find where my great grandparents, Margaret Emma Cooper (died 19 May 1911 in childbirth aged 43) and George Nolan Cooper (died 24 January 1919 aged 58) were buried. George Nolan Cooper was the police sergeant in Glengarriff for many years until his death. Any information about the church, including registers and monumental inscriptions, would be much appreciated. I've found various pictures of churches in Glengarriff on the internet, but think these are probably of the RC and former Methodist churches. Many thanks.
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Are you talking about Glengar(r)iff(e) out on Beara peninsula or up in the north end of County Cork?
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Glengarriff on the Beara peninsula. I have seen pictures of the same church described as both C of I and Methodist.
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I am not an expert on C of I, so given my current state of ignorance I would email Ireland C of I on this one. I'm sure they'll be very helpful.
It looks there is a Glengariff Parish out there but I've seen it described as RC:
http://www.mylocalnews.ie/articles/147/4/glengarriff-parish-733/bonane-glengarriff-parish-newsletter-11506/
http://www.mylocalnews.ie/cork-6/beara-peninsula-147/church-4/roman-catholic-20/glengarriff-parish-733/
After looking at this:
http://web.mac.com/ijlmoore/MOORE_WebPages_1/HTMLFiles/HTMLFiles_02/Avisia_SKUCE_P6554.html
tried both Glengar% and Derrynafulla in the Anglican search engine, no luck.
http://ireland.anglican.org
From this link:
http://web.mac.com/ijlmoore/MOORE_WebPages_1/HTMLFiles/HTMLFiles_10/John_KINGSTON_P5128.html
it looks like there is a Holy Trinity in Schull, that is the nearest Holy Trinity C of I that I can find anywhere near Glengarriff.
I would email the Anglican website and ask what gives, as the SKUCE link suggests there is or was a C of I Trinity Church in a parish that is or was called Glengarriffe.
If nobody comes forward with more expert info, would love to see what you report back!
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Very many thanks indeed for your help. The C of I parish was known as Kilcaskan and the parish church (now deconsecrated) appears to have been in Glengarriff:
http://www.bhs.ie/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=19&pos=21
I've e-mailed the C of I to ask about the history of this church. Glengarriff now appears to be covered by the C of I Kilmocomogue union of parishes. As you say, there is also a RC parish of Glengarriff.
There was indeed a Skuce link, two of my great aunts (Maria Catherine and Margaret Elizabeth) marrying two Skuce brothers.
http://web.mac.com/ijlmoore/MOORE_WebPages_1/HTMLFiles/HTMLFiles_18/Thomas_James_SKUCE_P5568.html
Kind regards
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I have found some details in Brady's Clerical and Parochial Records (1864), available at:
http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/history/bradysclericalandparochialrecords/indextoparishes--dioceseofcork/
GLENGARIFFE - Glengariffe is a district curacy, formed by deed, dated 31 July, 1861, between the Incumbents of Kilcaskin, in Ross, and Kilmocomoge, in Cork diocese, who pay to the Curate £35 per
an., as an endowment for the new church. The Vicar of Kilcaskin, who pays £20 per an. of above suin, has the first, and the V. Kilmocomoge the second turn of the alternate patronage.
The Earl of Bantry granted, on 13 April, 1861, 1R. 20r. statute measure of land for a new church at Glengariffe.
1860. Divine service is at present celebrated at half-past twelve o'clock, on Sundays, at the hotel, at Glengariffe. Sacrament six times in the year; average of communicants, 5. The Curate is Rev. Vincent Lamb, A.B., who was, on 23 January, 1855, licensed to this curacy at £75 per an. on the nomination of the V. Kilmocomoge and the V. Kilcaskin jointly.
A new church, on the site granted in 1861, by Lord Bantry, is now (March, 1863), nearly finished. The designs for it were furnished by the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, and were slightly
modified by the Archdeacon of Cork (S. M. KYLE), who originated the idea of placing a church in this romantic locality, and who collected the greater portion of the funds.
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I thought I'd take a crack at my copy of Francis Guy's directory for the County of Cork, 1875.
Unfortunately they lump all clergy together under one heading, but maybe the first one could be C of I:
Carey Rev William J, incumbent Glengariff
Molyneux Rev John, PP
Don't see anything about churches in the info available online for 1914:
http://www.failteromhat.com/guy/glengarriff.php
The much earlier Lewis Topographical Dictionary of Ireland (1837) says the state church parish is "co-extensive" with the RC parish in Kilmacomoge, but does not give further details.
From this map:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=100277759958213436093.00046472772c51c00bcf8&ll=51.99841,-9.052734&spn=1.241228,2.136841&z=9
I get the impression that C of I populations have declined somewhat from prior eras, and that perhaps was formerly in Glengarriff has been consolidated into St. Peters.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=100277759958213436093.00046472772c51c00bcf8&ll=51.99841,-9.052734&spn=1.241228,2.136841&z=9
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Very many thanks again. From what I can tell the original C of I Kilcaskan parish church was near Adrigole and the old cemetery still exists. A new C of I church was built in Glengarriff in 1863. As you say, neither of these is now in use although I'm not sure when the amalgamations were made. I'm sure someone will know. The RC parishes remain active.
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The RCB Library has confirmed that it holds the following C of I records:-
Kilcaskin parish church - marriage records from 1847-1911 and 1929. Everything else went in the fire at the Public Records Office.
Kilmocomogue parish church (Bantry) - baptisms from 1880-1929 and 1930-2000, marriages 1845-1897 and 1897-1957, burials 1880-1963 and 1964-2000.
Glengarriff (within Kilcaskin parish) did not have a graveyard - baptisms from 1863-1969, marriages 1864-1955 and 1967-1985.
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Very unfortunate about church records lost in the fire, but that seems to be the usual state of affairs with Irish genealogy. :'(
Very glad you heard back from them.
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Many thanks for your message. Fortunately the records for my great grandparents survived the fire. It transpires that they were buried at Kilmacomogue Parish Church, Bantry.
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Just signed on to rootschat and hapened to see your comments. I am actually the Rector of Bantry which covers Glengarriff now - Kilmocomogue. Glad you got sorted out. The graveyard in Bantry has recently been restored. PMW
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Dear Canon Willoughby
Many thanks indeed for your post. My grandfather, Thomas Hilliard Cooper, and most of his brothers and sisters (he was one of 13 children) were baptised at Glengarriff Church. The family was as follows:-
Maria Catherine (May) Cooper m Richard (Dick) Skuce
William Valentine Cooper DCM
Margaret Elizabeth Cooper m Thomas James Skuce
George Robert Cooper
Charles Richard Cooper
Ellen Maud Cooper
Matilda Mary Cooper
Lillian Annie Cooper
Thomas Hilliard Cooper
Henry Francis Cooper
Olive Eveleen Cooper
Edith Patricia Cooper
Emma Cooper
Their parents, George Nolan Cooper, died 24 January 1919, and Margaret Emma Cooper (nee Smith), died 19 May 1911 in childbirth, are both buried at Bantry. Would the grave still be there?
Margaret Emma Cooper was the daughter of Robert Hilliard Smith and Catherine (Kate) Smith (nee Vickery, Whiddy Island branch), who were married at Bantry Church on 2 April 1867. Kate Smith died at what is now St Luke's Home, Cork on 3 March 1933.
Kind regards
Michael Cooper
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Dear Michael - was intrigued by your message...your great-aunt, Margaret Elizabeth Skuce (nee Cooper) was my grandmother...we've been researching the Skuce-Cooper lineage in West Cork recently, in fact we were in Glengarriff just last summer, still have some family there. Your thread answers some questions for us already...we'd always wondered what happened Sgt Cooper and his wife, now we know! Also, we've managed to find out a fair bit about great uncle William (Valentine Cooper DCM), who served with the Irish Guards in WW1. He was killed in action in 1917 and is buried near Ypres in Flanders...we hope to make a pilgrimage to his grave next month, I'm over in Belgium on business...anyway, would be very interesting to hear from you, maybe there are other family stories we can share...
rgds, Philip (Skuce)
In answer to the original thread regarding the protestant church in Glengarriff...there IS a lovely little Anglican church on the way in to the village from Bantry. I believe it was deconsecrated some years ago and is now a coffee shop...with a fabulous view!
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Dear Philip
Very good to hear from you. I did know of your existence from May Skuce's daughter, who visited us in the 1970s. My father last visited Derrynafulla in the 1930s!
Our mutual great-grandfather George Nolan Cooper was the son of a Head Constable in the Royal Irish Constabulary. He and his brothers all followed suit by joining the RIC. George was posted to Cork, where he met Margaret Emma Smith. They were married at Christ Church (Holy Trinity Parish), South Main Street, Cork. He was then posted to Glengarriff, where he served from 1892 until his death in 1919.
Margaret Emma Cooper nee Smith already had a connection with Kilmacomogue Parish, her mother being a Vickery from Whiddy Island. Her father came from the Isle of Man, joined the army and served in the Crimean War, Indian Mutiny and Cape Colony before being posted to Bantry, where he met and married Kate Vickery. He was promoted to the rank of Sergeant on the day before his marriage in 1867 and moved to Cork after leaving the army.
The Cooper family can be seen in the 1911 census, http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Kilcaskan/Cappyanghna/376340/ , but Margaret Emma died in childbirth the following month. As you will know, May Cooper, the eldest daughter, married Dick Skuce from Derrynafulla in 1916 and went to Canada. William Valentine Cooper, the eldest son, joined the Irish Guards and was killed at Passchendaele. I've obtained photocopies of his service records from the Irish Guards. With the exception of your grandmother, the family dispersed to the north of Ireland, England or further afield.
I've added some details at ancestry.co.uk if you have access to that site.
Kind regards
Michael (Cooper)
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Dear Michael - great to hear from you, thanks for the rapid response...very interesting and very well informed! We did a bit of a tour of the West Cork cemeteries last time we were over and managed to find my grandmother and grandfathers' graves in the "new" cemetery in Bantry (opposite Bantry House) and great-grandfather's in the little protestant graveyard in Adrigole. Not sure of the whereabouts of the Cooper side of the family but there aren't that many protestant plots so they may well be in Bantry, Adrigole or even Glengarriff? We also requested great-uncle William's WW1 service record and medal citations, we've got a picture of him from a paper cutting of 1917 and a photograph of his grave in Poelkapelle cemetery in Flanders (could send you those and other old family photos if interested). He also gets a mention in Rudyard Kipling's epic "The Irish Guards in the Great War". Would you happen to know what happened his DCM? According to the army records, it was forwarded to his mother ("Granny Skuce") on his death.
Out of interest, may I ask where you are? I live in Edinburgh and still have family in Ireland, my Mum and twin brother in N.Ireland and my Uncle Robin down in West Cork.
Hope to hear back from you soon,
kind regards, Philip
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Hi, I was searching for more details on my great grandfathers (George Nolan Cooper) family, when I came across this forum & read your messages. I have family members on here! I know he was in the Irish constabulary lived in Glengariff & had 13 children with Margaret Smith nee Vickery. I’m on ancestry, I have all their names etc but no details of each child’s family or My great grandfather’s history. I know Maria went to Canada & my mom had a cousin visit in the 70’s after her death. William Valentine died in WWI 1917 & my brother & nephew visited his grave this summer. I know an Aunt went to New Zealand & my mom knew her younger Aunts & uncle Thomas that settled in Birmingham, she was very close to her aunt Nelly & Henry Francis Cooper was my grandfather. I would love to hear of any history of my family & how many cousins of my mother & their family are still around. My mom knows so very little of her Irish roots, didn’t even know she had 12 aunts & uncles as my grandfather never spoke of Ireland after he came over. She was only in contact with the aunts & uncle in Birmingham. She met uncle Charles from Ireland at her fathers funeral in 1966. We visited Glengafiff & the police station where they lived in 2006 & I’ve been searching on ancestry for our family ever since. Any help or introductions would be wonderful
Many thanks Debbie