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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex Lookup Requests => Essex => England => Essex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: KT on Wednesday 25 August 10 03:40 BST (UK)
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Christine O'Gorman photographed at Lulworth Cove, by her Father, Mervyn O'Gorman.
Mervyn dies 1958 at Brighton. Looking to find what happened to Christine. Siblings? Did she marry? any children?
Dr. Mervyn Archdall NOTT Crawford our ancestor in common.
I've written to every online post with the pictures &/or Mervyn but no-one knows anything ???. He was important in early 1900's aviation & military, wrote the driving manual, photographer ...
Best Regards from California, Katie
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Hi Katie
As you probably know, Mervyn Joseph Pius O'gorman (b.19 Dec 1871 Ireland, son of Edmund A O'Gorman of Harrogate) (d.16 March 1958 in Chelsea) married Florence Catherine Rasch in 1897 (not in the UK). Florence died 2 Oct 1931 in Chelsea and left her estate of £14.5k to her husband. From the 1911 census index I can't see any children with them in Chelsea. And I can't see a Christine or Christina O'Gorman anywhere in the UK. Are you certain Christine was his daughter and not, perhaps, a niece? Dazey
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Hi Katie
I've just spotted that Mervyn's wife, Florence, was 74 when she died - although her christening record in Camden gives her date of birth as 26 Oct 1853 - meaning she was about 43/44 when she married Mervyn in 1897. It's possible, of course, but quite a late age to start having children. How old would you say Christina looks in the 1913 photos? Dazey
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Hello Dazey999,
Yes, your correct, copied the 1911 census & no Christine. I couldn't find them on the 1901.
All the photo sites say, "Christine is Mervyns' daughter", is all I know.
OOPs! checked my facts, Mervyn died at home, 21 Embankment Gardens, Chelsea. ( Why did I think Brighton ??? Wonder who that was, no matter )
Same obituary story says he married Florence in 1897. She would be about age 43 then.
I don't remember seeing any dates on the photographs. That would help figure out Christine's possible age. Reasons she may not be on the 1911; away at school, visiting - not home, not born? ( after 13 years? )
;D Katie
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Hey Dazey999,
That was stupid, Duh! You wrote the photos were 1913! I can only guess then she could be about 16 at the oldest?
8) Katie
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Dazey999,
p.s. Forgot to say the obituary I have is from, 'Oxford Dictionary of National Biography'. I can't get this from home. My sister-in-law copied it for me using the Berkeley University library subscription. Should I post it here?
I also put a "looking for information" post, on England's genweb site for County Dorset. Asking if anyone about Lulworth Cove knew anything? I looked at using google satellite, a beautiful ClamShell Cove. Would love to see in person.
Katie
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The girls could indeed have been away at school in 1911, but no sign of any of them in 1901 either! What a mystery! They're not in Ireland in 1901 or 1911 either. I'll keep looking! Dazey
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I've found Mervyn & Florence in the 1901 census:
RG13; Piece: 936; Folio: 16; Page: 24
10 Palmeira Square, Hove
transcribed as Mervyn J O Gorma
they were visiting Charles G Heathcok
No children with them, I'm afraid
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There's a Christina O'Gorman in 1911 Irish census age 13-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Dungarvan_No__1_Urban/St__Mary_Street/663177/
parents are James and Mary O'Gorman and they have 11 children so it's possible that some of the children would have gone to stay with relatives
In 1901 the family are here with lots of other relatives-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Dungarvan_No__1/St__Mary_s_Street/1770907/
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Katie...do you know if Mervyn had a brother James? Aghadowey is right....with such a big family, and looking like Mervyn & Florence didn't have any children of their own, perhaps they took 2 nieces on holiday with them???
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Hi ladies :D
I was able to use your links and go directly to the census pages ;D. & I'll print them out for reference.
As far as I know there was no brother James, but Hey? could have been a cousin or other?
Margaret Barclay Crawford wed Edmond John Whyte O'Gorman;
Mervyn Archdall Joseph Pius O'Gorman wed Florence
Cecil Carleton Crawford ( artist, went to Mexico, sons Juan & Edmundo )
Bernardine Beauchamp Colclough O'Gorman - no info
I copy what I can from google/books and am always ordering things thru the library from other holdings. I didn't note which book this attachment is from ???
O'hart's "Origin & Stem of the Irish Nation", page 141 shows this same and more.
A good mystery 8)
Moderator's Note: please see Google Books for page
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I'm no genealogist -- not even a hobbyist -- but I spotted something that appeared to my uneducated eyes to fit your story well, so I'm sharing it.
aghadowey pointed out that there was a Christina O'Gorman in the 1911 Irish census, aged 13. That would put her date of birth around 1898.
Googling "Christina O'Gorman" and "1898" turns up the following page:
http://www.jeffseeley.org/familytrees/radmore/pafg04.htm
From which I'm pulling the excerpt below, in case the page goes offline:
44. Robert Cecil Radmore (Samuel Ernest , Samuel , John ) was born on Sep 13 1895 in Hackney, County London, England. He died on Jan 08 1969 in New York, USA.
Robert married Mary Christina O'Gorman in 1925 in Elham District, County Kent, England. Mary was born about 1898 in Ireland. She died on Aug 04 1962 in New York, USA.
They had the following children:
+ 65 M i Peter Michael Radmore
66 F ii Living
Living married John D. Foster. John was born on Oct 02 1914 in Tarboro, Edgecombe County, North Carolina, USA. He died on Jul 12 2002 in Chicago, Cook County, Illinois, USA.
Could it be that Christina was actually her middle name, and that her given name was Mary?
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hello,
thanks to you all for trying to solve that puzzle. I find it tantalizing, same as you I guess.
I found an article in the daily mail that pretty well sums up what we know (and what we don't) about christine.
the link is : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3066019/Who-lady-red-Mystery-young-woman-cascading-blonde-hair-earliest-colour-photos.html
I am no specialist in genealogy but I am fond of art. Whoever the sitter is, in my view these photos might tell us about the genealogy of art. As regards painting, they stand half-way between the Preraphalites .... and Salvador Dali!
No soft watches here, of course. However Dali was fascinated with classical poses, and many of his his paintings have a similar dreamy, slightly frightening surrealistic atmosphere. Take the items lying on the beach in the "picnic" autochrome, for example, and of course the vast expanse of sea and beach behind Christine. And the odd shapes of the cliffs in the background.
do you know if mervyn o'gorman shot other photos by any chance?
to return to genealogy : if any private correspondence from O'Gorman emerged, this would greatly help to define who christina really was.
Best and thanks again
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hello,
thanks to you all for trying to solve that puzzle. I find it tantalizing, same as you I guess.
I found an article in the daily mail that pretty well sums up what we know (and what we don't) about christine.
the link is : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3066019/Who-lady-red-Mystery-young-woman-cascading-blonde-hair-earliest-colour-photos.html
I am no specialist in genealogy but I am fond of art. Whoever the sitter is, in my view these photos might tell us about the genealogy of art. As regards painting, they stand half-way between the Preraphalites .... and Salvador Dali!
No soft watches here, of course. However Dali was fascinated with classical poses, and many of his his paintings have a similar dreamy, slightly frightening surrealistic atmosphere. Take the items lying on the beach in the "picnic" autochrome, for example, and of course the vast expanse of sea and beach behind Christine. And the odd shapes of the cliffs in the background.
do you know if mervyn o'gorman shot other photos by any chance?
to return to genealogy : if any private correspondence from O'Gorman emerged, this would greatly help to define who christina really was.
Best and thanks again
Quick heads-up for you that the bulk of the discussion seems to be taking place in a different thread, which you can find here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=478074.27
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page 400 from the book history of Limerick
James O'Gorman (who was the fourth son of Daniel O'Gorman and Mary Roche, daughter of Philip Roche of Limerick), was born in the Castle of Bunratty,
Co. Clare, in 1681 ; he lost his property, and went to live in Limerick in 1724, where he married Christina Harold, third daughter of Thomas Harold and Alicia Enraght. He died in 1736. He had three sons and one daughter. His second son Thomas was born in 1724, and went to England in 1747, to claim for his relative Mrs Margaret Daly Walsh, estates, as heir-at-law to Sheffield Duke of Buckingham, and succeeded in establishing her right. He afterwards established himself as a merchant in London; He died in 1800, and the mercantile house, a somewhat eminent one, was continued under the firm of Goman Brothers. He had fourteen children. The period at which he dropped the 0' was after he went to London. The names of his sons were Edmond Sexton, Alicutbouse, Thomas Harold, James (Michael Arthur), William, Sivester, Charles, James Denis Charles, Thadeus, and George. It was James, we believe, that gave evidence for Mr. Arthur. Edmond A. Gorman, Esq. of east Berghall, Suffolk, represents this family.
Thomas Harold, James was Mervyns Grandad and was rich, so its fair to say that Mervyns dad was also wealthy