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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: thelly on Tuesday 24 August 10 08:13 BST (UK)

Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: thelly on Tuesday 24 August 10 08:13 BST (UK)
Hi all,
Hopefully someone can help me again, I'm looking for information about Jane Langston.

Jane was convicted at the Old Bailey on 27 November 1845, sentenced to ten years for theft from her employer, and sent to Tasmania on the Sea Queen, leaving England on 10 May 1846.
I have information about Jane after she arrived in the Colony and her life thereafter until her death in November 1860.

On Jane's court documents it was stated that she was born in Sligo, Ireland, and had a brother, Frederick, I cannot find any information about her coming from Ireland, but have found a Jane Langston who was born in England, I would appreciate it if someone knows where I could find information about her life before she was convicted and sent to Tasmania.

Many thanks,
Thelly
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: Jeuel on Tuesday 24 August 10 11:03 BST (UK)
If she was born in Sligo and travelled to England there won't be a record of it, as Ireland was thought to be the same country as England at the time.

You could look in 1841 census, but as ages were often rounded down and birthplace was only given as whether or not they were born in the county they were enumerated in (and that isn't always accurate!) I'm not sure how you'd be able to verify you'd found the right Jane.

Did she marry in Tasmania?  Does her marriage cert mention her father?  Have you tried looking for Frederick?
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: thelly on Tuesday 24 August 10 11:23 BST (UK)
Hi Jeuel,
No,Jane's marriage certificate doesn't mention any family members, she had put down that she was a widow, the Tasmanian Archives researched it and discovered that Jane was not a widow.

I can't find Frederick anywhere, but have found a Jane Langstone born in 1823 in Droitwich, Worcester, England, parents Samuel and Ann Langstone, that was fromFamily Search records, I haven't added that to my records, as I am not sure, but would really like to know where she came from, I have been told by another descendant that Frederick went to New York, but can't find that out either.

Jane did work for a Susannah Bennett at St. Botolph without Aldgate, (where she stole the goods) I don't know the areas of England, so don't know if that is close to Droitwich, if it is, perhaps I have the right girl.
Thanks again,
Thelly
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: mollymandysb on Tuesday 24 August 10 16:48 BST (UK)
hi

I live near to droitwich, if you want any photos taken please let me know.  not heard of the other place tho but that does not mean it is not there.  was born and lived in another part of england.
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: thelly on Tuesday 24 August 10 23:35 BST (UK)
Hi,
That is very kind of you, I would love some photos, the actual place where Jane Langstone was christened was St Andrew, Droitwich, Worcester, England, I presume St Andrew's is a church, I don't know if St.Botolph without Aldgate was a county of England or perhaps the name of a house?

Many thanks,
Thelly
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: mollymandysb on Wednesday 25 August 10 00:03 BST (UK)
Hi Thelly

I will go over to Droitwich and see if I can get some photos and more info for you.  st andrews is quite big over there, i.e. st andrews square, st andrews hotel, st andrews carpet shop etc.   not heard of the other tho, but again i will ask around and get some info for you.  if we can find where she lived i will get some photos for you (hoping that it is still in existence).

st B (or whatever it is) is not a county or area in england but i will try and find out for you.

what part of the world are you in.  Droitwich is in north worcestershire which is middle england, south of the city of birmingham,west of stratford upon avon and not too far from the welsh and shropshire borders.


steph
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 25 August 10 00:08 BST (UK)
Hello Thelly,

You are looking at two very different areas there. Droitwich is Worcestershire and St Botolph without Aldgate is London.

1841 HO107; Piece 1205; Book: 9; Folio: 8; Page: 9
has Samuel  and Ann Langstone with several children (no Jane) in Worcestershire

There is a Langston family in St Botolph Aldersgate which is a different area "St Botolph Aldersgate (AKA St Botolph without Aldersgate)  (part in city of London, not to be confused with St Botolph Without Aldgate) " http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bpefisk/fh/Middx/Ossulstone%20Hundred%20-%20Holborn%20Division.html

1841 HO107; Piece 725; Book: 4; Folio: 28; Page: 49
Benjamin Langston 35 yrs with a wife and family (relationships are not given in 1841 but they look to be a family).
However there is no sign of a Jane Langston.

Benjamin and his wife are not born in the county and looking at 1851, Elizabeth comes from the Channel Islands and is a widow  :( so don't know about Benjamin!

I'm sure you're more confused than ever now - sorry!

heywood
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 25 August 10 00:19 BST (UK)
There is a Susanah Bennett here in 1841 HO107; Piece 724; Book: 12;  Folio: 4; Page: 3
but it is St Botolph Aldersgate  ::) (such a nuisance)

she is an ironmonger and living with an older woman (perhaps mother) , a 7 yrs old (daughter) and a female servant.
(no sign of Jane)
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: mollymandysb on Wednesday 25 August 10 00:24 BST (UK)
Hi Thelly

just read mess again and realise u r in Australia.  If st andrews droitwich is correct there is a web site for them, i just put in st andrews church droitwich, worcestershire.  when you find out if jane was born there i will go over and get some more info and photos for you and of course wherever she lived.

Jane may have been born there and then moved to London for work.

Steph
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 25 August 10 00:44 BST (UK)
I have just found the Old Bailey notice- not much help
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org//browse.jsp?id=t18451215-193&div=t18451215-193&terms=langston#highlight

it's that Aldgate/Aldersgate which bothers me - I know nothing about the places.

Did she marry- wondering if a marriage certificate gave her father's name?
There is this which is not far away from Aldgate (according to googlemaps)
1841 HO107; Piece 1048; Book: 2; Folio: 10; Page: 12
Bermondsey, Surrey
James Langston 60yr  blacksmith not born in county
Ann Langston 20 yrs
Jane Langston 15 yrs

I think James dies later in 1841 and I can't see either of the two girls in 1851.

Realistically though , it is too difficult to say- especially if Jane states she is from Sligo  :-\
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: thelly on Wednesday 25 August 10 08:03 BST (UK)
Hi Mollymandysb and Heywood
Thank you both for your help, I live in Sydney Australia, my ancestors originally came from England and Ireland, there were five convicts in my family, for some reason as soon as they were convicted and sent to Tasmania, it was as though their life before that ceased to exist. 
Heywood, the Susannah Bennett that you mention  from St Botolph, Aldersgate would, I think, have to have been Jane's employer, too much of a coincidence.
  Jane was granted her freedom in 1850 and married John Turner in May 1850, there was no mention of parents for either of them, they had three children, she died in November 1880 aged 57 years, and is buried at Cornelian Bay Cemetery in Hobart Tasmania.
  On some of her records her last name is given as Longstone, I think that was just an error, as on everything else her surname was Langstone.
Thankyou again mollymandysb for your kindness re: photos, I have just gone on to the web page for St Andrew's Church, Droitwich, and registered with them.
Kind regards,
Thelly
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 25 August 10 09:34 BST (UK)
That's a pity about the lack of information on marriage certificate. I was looking for Langston not Langstone but it hasn't made much difference.
There is a Frederick B Langstone 12 yrs in an orphanage in London in 1841 and I can't find him afterwards.
I wonder if her brother emigrated- have you checked Australian records for him?
I can't think of anything else- sorry.
good luck
heywood
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: thelly on Thursday 26 August 10 04:30 BST (UK)
Hi Heywood,
Thanks for trying, none of Jane's family came to Australia, she appears to have three spellings of her name, Langstone, Langston and Longston, I agree with you she doesn't appear to have existed before her trial.
Thanks again,
Thelly
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: meadbh on Sunday 28 November 10 18:02 GMT (UK)
The Jane Langston aged 15, living with her father, James, and sister, Ann, in Bermondsey, was my husband's gt-gt-grandmother. She was born in Bermondsey 10 Dec 1824, and in1843 she married a widower, John Ward,  with whom she had four sons - so not the right Jane, I'm afraid.

Kath
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: Kaye Elizabeth Hodel on Saturday 17 March 18 08:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Thelly
I just came across your post as I was trying to remember where  jane langston was from as it is St patricks day.   I have her in my family tree as  3rd great grandmother.  It has been some time since i have been on Ancestory.com and am not currently a member and i know my tree has a few mustakes but this what I have
She was narried twice her first husband i think died before 1850 but unsure of his name or where i got this info now.  But  then 8 may 1850 she married John TURNER at Trinity church in Hobart Tasmania she was protestant.  She had 3 children  Sarah Ann Jane Turner also born 8 may 1850 - d1932( i never noticed that before same day as marriage!?) Frederick John Turner 6 mar 1852 - d1927 and Elizabeth.12 aug 1854 -d1894. Jane and John lived at 55 Bathurst street hobart and i have her brother as bedes langston but  now looking at that either she kept her maiden name or perhaps Bedes was a husband?  Therefore i cant find her parents perhaps her maiden name is not langston.  Anyway i hope the info i have given will help you in your detective work you can work the other way to either verify or dismiss.  Good luck  oh and does this mean we are related somewhere?
Regards Kaye
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: thelly on Sunday 18 March 18 02:12 GMT (UK)
Hi Kaye,
Received your message this morning, I put that post up about six years ago, I have the same information as you re Jane Langston, I have a feeling she was possibly married and perhaps never divorced, I looked up my files and I have a Bedes and a Frederick, as she and John named their son, Frederick, she perhaps named the baby after her father! (he, Frederick John Turner was my g-grandfather), it is very hard to get information about convicts, after they were convicted, most of them hardly did anything wrong, England wanted to populate Australia, hence all those people being sent here, on her marriage certificate she had said she was a widow, not sure, other records say she was not, she was born about 1815/16.
Thank you for contacting me, I guess we are related.
Cheers,
Thelly
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: Kaye Elizabeth Hodel on Wednesday 21 March 18 09:57 GMT (UK)
Hi Thelly
thanks so much for the response sorry I did not note that it was 6 years ago.   I have so much on my plate just at the moment but I look forward to continuing working on my family tree.  Yes Turners are on my mothers side I hope I got the right one in my tree as I know I went terribly wrong at one stage and thought I had Royal connections ( darn)  So it is lovely to think we are related  when I get a chance I will confirm.   
regards
Kaye Hodel
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: thelly on Thursday 22 March 18 06:33 GMT (UK)
Hi Kaye,
That is okay, it was lovely hearing from you, funny you should say you thought you had Royal connections, my mother was a Middleton, so of course I thought we might have been related to Kate Middleton, no such luck!!  I hadn't been on Ancestry for awhile, like you, have been fairly busy, but your email made me think about Jane, I am still not sure if her name ends with an 'e' as that is how the Old Bailey spelt Langstone, I started to look her up again, it is hard when not sure if it is a maiden, or married name!!  If she was already married when sent to Australia, than married John Turner, it doesn't bear thinking about, I guess some of the convicts lied about where they came from, it is not easy to find information, mainly because people years ago had large families and so had enough to do, when I originally found five convicts in my family, none of my relatives believed me, each one of them did so much for this country, as did many others who were sent here,  I can't find anything about the Turners' just that  John Turner was a Tailor and came from Lancashire or Lincolnshire, so I can't get past John, whereas with the Middletons' I have gone back to the 16th Century.
Regards,
Thelly
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: Daisypetal on Thursday 22 March 18 16:04 GMT (UK)

Hi,

I expect you've seen this website but just in case,

https://www.femaleconvicts.org.au/index.php

A lot of interesting info there but you have to join to access the index,

https://www.femaleconvicts.org.au/index.php/database/database-research


If she was already married then she would have broken the seven year rule, but I think that might have been quite common.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lsd/


Regards,
Daisy



Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: thelly on Thursday 22 March 18 21:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Daisy,
Thanks for that information, I belong to The Female Convicts Organisation, they don't have information on convicts lives before being transported.  Not quite sure what you mean by the seven year rule?
Regards,
Thelly
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 22 March 18 22:09 GMT (UK)
Is this your Jane?. Can you give the information you know about her TURNER family....children....their marriages etc.


TAS BDM birth
TURNER Sarah Ann Jane 8 May 1850
parents John TURNER, tailor,  Jane formerly LANGSTON
informant J TURNER, father, Murray St
(baby baptised St Davids)

TAS BDM birth
TURNER Frederick John  6 Mar 1852
parents John TURNER, tailor,   Jane formerly LANGSTONE
informant J TURNER, father, Patrick Street

TAS BDM death
TURNER Jane   57ys  tailors wife      cancer  27 November 1880
died Bathurst St  born England
informant is undertaker  8 Dec 1880

If Jane had been the informant I wonder how she might have named herself?

I think it is very likely that Jane LANGSTON is her married name, and brother Frederick is not a LANGSTON.

Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: thelly on Friday 23 March 18 07:21 GMT (UK)
Hi,
Yes, I have all that information about Jane, her eldest daughter, Sarah m Charles Stewart, they had three children, Frederick married Mary Rachel Hurst (also daughter of a convict) they had eleven children, their youngest daughter, Elizabeth also married a Stewart, brother of Sarah's husband, they also had eleven children, Elizabeth died in childbirth. Jane has stated that she was a widow on her marriage certificate, but also on that Langstone was with an E, so if that was her married name from her first marriage, I guess there is no way I will find her maiden name!  It is the same with John Turner, he was not a convict, but is also a mystery!
Regards,
Thelly
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: Daisypetal on Friday 23 March 18 15:02 GMT (UK)

HI,

the seven year rule was,

See:- An Act to restrain all Persons from Marriage until their former Wives and former Husbands be dead [1604.]

“II. Provided always, That this Act, nor any Thing therein contained, shall extend to any Person or Persons whose Husband or Wife shall be continually remaining beyond the Seas by the Space of seven Years together, or whose Husband or Wife shall absent him or herself the one from the other by the Space of seven Years together, in any Parts within his Majesty’s Dominions, the one of them not knowing the other to be living within that Time.”


There is some info about it in the link I gave you,

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lsd/

Or there is this one which might work better,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigamy_Act_1603


So husbands or wives could legally remarry after seven years apart.

Regards,
Daisy
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: matthewj64 on Friday 23 March 18 16:14 GMT (UK)
...I have been told by another descendant that Frederick went to New York, but can't find that out either...

Hi - her convict indent says brother "Frederick in New York" and there is a US, NYC 1841 naturalisation on Ancestry for Frederick Langston, Mariner, English

Indent here:  http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON15-1-3,360,329,L,52

M

add - there's an 1880 US census record for Frederick B Langston, Master Mariner, 64yo, born England, parents born Ireland
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: Daisypetal on Friday 23 March 18 17:38 GMT (UK)


If this is Jane's brother then it's really a shame that this doesn't mention Frederick's father :(


New York Evening Post
Publication date:  Monday 01 Sep 1856

Saturday 30th Rev George BUSH, Captain F B Langston of this city to Isabella dau of late Jonas BOWMAN of Hartford,VT




Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: matthewj64 on Friday 23 March 18 20:02 GMT (UK)
Findagrave record for Capt. Frederick B Langston died November 1906, buried Green-Wood Cemetery, Brooklyn, Kings County NY
"...born Yorkshire, England, in 1816..."

M
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: matthewj64 on Friday 23 March 18 22:48 GMT (UK)
An article about one of Frederick and Isabella's sons that has this -

"Captain Langston was a seaman, a very successful owner and captain of a merchant ship named the Parana, which sailed all around the world bringing its cargo to American and foreign ports. During the 1870s, he mostly sailed between North and South America."

https://www.brownstoner.com/brooklyn-life/walkabout-the-yachtsman-architect/
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: Daisypetal on Saturday 24 March 18 16:31 GMT (UK)

I noticed that the convict indent you posted for Jane mentions Leeds underneath CoSligo but I'm not sure what it means ??? 

"First ap in Leeds"  ?

Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: matthewj64 on Saturday 24 March 18 18:24 GMT (UK)

I noticed that the convict indent you posted for Jane mentions Leeds underneath CoSligo but I'm not sure what it means ??? 

"First ap in Leeds"  ?

Looking at other entries its bro(ugh)t up in

M
Title: Re: Jane Langston
Post by: thelly on Sunday 25 March 18 05:48 BST (UK)
Hi all,
First of all thank you for your help, I will look up the web pages you have sent and see what is there, she could be the sister of Frederick B Langston, according to several records I have, she was born either 1815/16, and if Frederick was born in 1816, it is very possible they were related, and perhaps when she was convicted she said she was Irish, as her parents were.
I'm sorry I don't know what the Leeds means.
Regards,
Thelly