RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: Tuscany on Monday 23 August 10 17:29 BST (UK)
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It's a very long time since I posted on here, I became so despondent after hitting one brick wall after another that I gave up, permanently :-\. Unfortunately I can't let go of my great uncle Harry Oliver, due to the fact that he was never mentioned and everything I know about him I have discovered for myself. He was born on 8th February 1888, married Ellen MacKenzie on 12th July 1916, had a daughter Peggy Eileen on 1st February 1921 born at Northlands Lodge, Southampton. He disappears from the records somewhen between 1939 and 1945. I can't think, because of his age, he was involved in the war or forces, (maybe wrong). In 1939 he was living with a Jessie Louise Oliver and Alice Louise Yeates (?). It seems he may have been a bit of a lad and this is possibly why he was apparently disowned. One avenue of enquiry gave his death as 17/03/1943 aged 73, (even the churchyard and grave number) which does not add up agewise, but the grave also contains a Jessie Louise Oliver. Would someone think about this logically for me please?
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Did the family stay in Southampton?
Southampton steet diectories are online
http://www.plimsoll.org/Southampton/streetdirectories/default.asp
If you know where he was living you may get a better idea of when he disappears.
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According to Southampton City Archives, he was living in Canada Road. It's the date discrepancy that has always confused me, I have his birth cert and if he is the person on record he would have been 55 when he died which is a lot different to 73, and even with bad writing I can't turn that into one or the other.
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According to the street directories he was living in Canada Road number 17 in 1941 but 1946 it was a Mrs. Oliver. So I suppose he could have died in 1943 but I have never been able to find written proof anywhere.
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Have you explored electoral roles?
It sounds as if you have already been in contact with Southampton Bereavement Services. If he died at Canada Road it's likely that he was buried at St Mary Extra Cemetery.
Could he have emigrated?
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That's the information I was given with the plot number etc. The coincidences are too many to ignore but it's just the age thing, unless of course he lied about his age. I did consider emigration before but found absolutely nothing.
I think I am going to have to accept that this is him. I seem to remember I tried for a death certificate but they couldn't find anything.
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A few more thoughts:
Have you ordered the death certificate to see who registered the death for the Harry OLIVER who died in 1943? (The death index also gives his age as 73).
There may be an obituary in the local newspaper - The Southern Evening Echo.
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How did you manage to find a death for him because I never have? Any ideas on how I access the Echo archives, it's a long time since I did this and I've forgotten more than I remember.
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You may find Echo archives at Southampton Library or Southampton Archives - it's worth sending them an email (I'm not sure as I don't live in Southampton any more)
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Thankyou will give it a try.
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Is there any likelihood that he died a lingering death as a result of injuries sustained in the Blitz of Southampton? That might explain a much older appearance and a guess as to age.
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I have his birth certificate so I know that in 1943 he would have been 55. His marriage certificate for Ellen shows his age as 28 in 1916. This all ties in, and I have never found a certificate for what was supposedly his second marriage. I imagine he may not have married Jessie. I wondered whether his daughter may have registered his death and possibly not known his age.
If he did leave his first wife and not marry the second 'wife' this would most likely explain why he was never mentioned in the family.
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Perhaps this is Jessie's death?
Death, Dec qtr 1961
Jessie L. OLIVER aged 87
Southampton 6b 688
If so she'd have been born abt 1874...
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Sorry, looks like you've pursued the wrong Harry.
FamilySearch pilot has Harry OLIVER, born 1871, son of James, marrying Jessie Louise YEATES aged 23 on 25 Sep 1897 at East Cowes, Whippingham. There is a confirmatory baptism 19 March 1871 at East Cowes for Harry.
Update:
I took a look at your previous thread and, since that was started, it appears there may have been an earlier child:
FreeBMD 4Q 1917 OLIVER Betty R - ref. Southampton 2c 79 - Mother's Maiden name Mackenzie.
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Grrrrr......... Many thanks (I think) but it does seem you're right that somehow I've got on to a totally different Harry Oliver, and there are quite a few about. Harry, born Cowes IOW son of James is nothing to do with my Harry whose father was Herbert, mother Jane and this is absolute certainty. How you found another child baffles me because I've never come across her before, but she fits. Thank you so much for that. I'll now have another go at finding the real Harrys' death.
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Perhaps this is as good a time as any to research into the origins of Harry's wife: Ellen MacKENZIE. In your earlier thread you mentioned a birth year 1889 for her, daughter of Thomas MacKENZIE. Was her birth year deduced from age given on the 1916 marriage certificate?
Harry's former employer, Herbert Henry WALFORD was at 6 Cornwall Gardens, Kensington in 1911 but there was no sign of Harry in that census. HHW's death was registered 1928 - aged 93.
From your postcard collection, are you able to draw up a timeline with places from the postmarks? Some of my own memorabilia has enabled me to locate the whereabouts of individuals pre- and post-WW1.
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I did go into Harrys wifes' family but I shall have to reaquaint myself with her history. I did know about Harrys' employer who was a solicitor and had a house in Alresford, near Winchester. I did manage to follow Harry round by the postcards but he seems to disappear.
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Did your Harry have a son also called Harry?
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No, not that I have ever discovered.
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You may find Echo archives at Southampton Library or Southampton Archives - it's worth sending them an email (I'm not sure as I don't live in Southampton any more)
Sent the Echo an e-mail to see if they knew where the past copies were kept. No reply.
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I took a look at your previous thread and, since that was started, it appears there may have been an earlier child:
FreeBMD 4Q 1917 OLIVER Betty R - ref. Southampton 2c 79 - Mother's Maiden name Mackenzie.
1Q 1940 Betty R OLIVER married Harry E RYGOR Trowbridge 5a 455
Death May 1986 - Bath Reg District - Betty Rosalind RYGOR born 10 Sep 1917
They had several children, possibly some still living .....
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If only. I was the only child of an only child so I have very few relations and to find some living relations on that side would be fantastic.