RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: djfyfe on Monday 23 August 10 12:18 BST (UK)
-
My gg grandfather, John Fyfe, was one of several Scottish farmers hired by agents for Lord Gosford's estates in Ireland. They were hired as agriculturalists to educate the Irish peasant farmers in improved farming methods.
We know from the 1841 census that John Fyfe came from "Scotsland", but have no idea where in Scotland.
Does anyone know where in Scotland Lord Gosford's agents recruited their agriculturalists?
-
Hi and Welcome :)
Have you seen this collection of Gosford papers from PRONI:
http://www.proni.gov.uk/introduction_gosford-2.pdf
also :
http://www.bygonesandbyways.com/folders/gosford/the_gosford_papers.htm
There might be something there.
What was your gg grandfathers approx date of birth?
Gadget
-
Thanks for the Gosford Estate links, Gadget. While they provide good background material on the Estates, they do not help solve my puzzle. A cousin visited PRONI and was unable to find any information about where William Blacker hired his agriculturalists although he did find some inbound correspondence from John Fyfe and his son, George, who succeeded him.
My gg grandfather was born in the late 1790s (c. 1799 from his age on the 1841 Census, c.1797 from the Civil Registration Indexes on FamilySearch.org). He married in Cavan around 1833, so he probably arrived on the Cavan Estates from Scotland in the late 1820s or early 1830s.
The book "ARVA - Sources for a Local History" by Frank McCaughey makes several references to John Fyfe, the earliest being in correspondence from William Blacker dated 25 February 1832. The book states "Blacker had a marked predilection for Scottish agriculturists who could be hired for £30 or £40 per annum in addition to a rent free house."
Hence my interest in what part(s) of Scotland Blacker might have done his recruiting.
-
During the same time period, my ancestors in Dumfries and Galloway were moving (some to Canada and some to Wales) because of the new 'improving leases' that were being imposed on the tenant farmers.
Maybe that is an area worth investigating as there were advances being made in agriculture there and it's an easy route to Ireland.
What was the name of his eldest son and second daughter? They might have used traditional naming patterns.
It might be worth following up and also locating the origins of William Blacker.
Sorry, my knowledge of Irish family history is very thin.
Gadget
-
I've located 15 John Fyfe (variations) baptised 1795-1802. One of them might be yours but not all baptism records are available - lost, not entered or non-C of Scotland.
None are from the SW of Scotland though :(
Gadget
-
Thanks for the suggestions, Gadget. Looking for William Blacker's origins is a direction I hadn't thought of. However, it turns out that he was born in Ireland.
Without knowing where John Fyfe came from, it's difficult to meaningfully narrow down the list of baptisms. However, he declared himself to be Presbyterian on the 1841 Census and his children were baptised in the Presbyterian Church in Carrigallen, Co. Leitrim. John married Margaret Crawford and their children, in birth order, were John, Andrew William, George, Isabella and Samuel, so there was no second daughter.
John Fyfe (Senior) could read and write, a necessity for his position with the Gosford Estates. Was that level of education common among Scottish tenant farmers in the early 1800s, or can it be inferred that he came from a middle-class farming family?
We were talking with our travel agent yesterday. She comes from Elgin (NE Scotland) and said that is a rich farming region and there were Fyfes (or variant spellings) in the area.
We will be visiting Ireland next week and hope to find some more information in the Cavan library.
Dennis
-
My tenant farming ancestors were very literate. I have quite a few letters to prove it. Also, dare I say it, I think Scottish education was ahead of the rest of the UK at that time :-X
I'll have another look at the baptism listings.
Gadget
-
There's an interesting baptism in Fordyce, Banff
22 July 1797 - John Fyfe s/o John Fyfe and Isabel Reid
This is only an outside possible at the moment, mind
Were there any Isabels in Margaret's family?
Gadget
-
Was John snr still alive in 1841?
Was he in Ireland with his son?
-
Sorry Sancti, I think you've misread something:
My gg grandfather, John Fyfe
We know from the 1841 census that John Fyfe came from "Scotsland", but have no idea where in Scotland.
No evidence that his father was John apart from his first son's name.
Gadget
-
Thanks for your continued help. The Banff baptism is certainly worthy of followup.
John Fyfe died in April 1868, according to the Arva book. His wife, Margaret, died in 1860. We know nothing of Margaret's family other than that she was born in Cavan in about 1806 (1841 Census).
John Jr was born in 1835 and emigrated to the USA in the early 1850s. Andrew William emigrated to Australia in 1856. Isabella Crawford and Samuel both emigrated to the USA (dates unknown). George Edward was the only sibling to remain in Ireland.
There are no Isobels that we know of in my family, but my great grandfather, Andrew William , and his brother, George Edward, both named their second daughter Isabella. They also had a younger sister, Isabella Crawford, as I mentioned above and in an earlier posting. So Isabella is definitely a family name in the 19th Century. John, Andrew, George and Samuel also occur repeatedly in the 19th C.
-
Sorry Sancti, I think you've misread something:
My gg grandfather, John Fyfe
We know from the 1841 census that John Fyfe came from "Scotsland", but have no idea where in Scotland.
No evidence that his father was John apart from his first son's name.
Gadget
Getting ahead of myself with the naming tradition ;D
Does his death certificate in 1868 mention parents names?
-
Unfortunately ,when I applied for a Death Certificate I got a reply that no death record could be found. I subsequently found the index entry on FamilySearch.org but have not yet followed up with the Irish authorities.
However, I recall reading elsewhere that Irish death registrations from that era have very little information.
-
Yes, very little detail on Irish death certificates-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433043.0.html