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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: debbie_dw on Sunday 22 August 10 11:45 BST (UK)

Title: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: debbie_dw on Sunday 22 August 10 11:45 BST (UK)
I am after any info on the above, Charles Goldsmith was born c 1801 and died c 1849 Isle of Thanet, he married Maria Freeman b c 1807 and died c 1855 Isle of Thanet. They had at least 11 children, Robert, William,Richard, Maria,Elizabeth, James, Caroline, Mary,Sarah & Walter. Does anyone know where Charles & his wife Maria were married or where they were born. Anything would be very helpful.Thanks Deb ;D
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Sunday 22 August 10 11:50 BST (UK)
according to the 1851 census maria was born in ramsgate
if you want the full 1851 census entry i will post it here
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Sunday 22 August 10 11:54 BST (UK)
and according to the 1841 charles was born in the county of kent
again if you want the census i will post it here
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: debbie_dw on Sunday 22 August 10 12:51 BST (UK)
Thank you that would be very very helpful. :)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: casalguidi on Sunday 22 August 10 13:13 BST (UK)
Maria FREEMAN baptised St Lawrence Thanet (Ramsgate) 1807 dau of James and Elizabeth FREEMAN see http://www.familysearch.org (select Record Search Pilot)

There is also a Charles GOLDSMITH baptised same parish 1800 (son of Edward and Sarah) ........... perhaps they are the ones ???

Casalguidi :)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Sunday 22 August 10 18:26 BST (UK)
1841
HO107/469/2/42/33
charles goldsmith age 40. occ. mariner.(transcribed as aged 60 but definitely 40 on the actual census imagee)
maria goldsmith age 34
charles goldsmith age 15
robert goldsmith age 13
william goldsmith age 10
maria goldsmith age 7
elizabeth goldsmith age 5
james goldsmith age 3
caroline goldsmith age 3mnths
living at;harbone place,preston by wingham,ramsgate,kent
reg.dist; isle of thanet
all born in county
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Sunday 22 August 10 18:35 BST (UK)
1851
HO107/1630/349/27
maria goldsmith age 42. b. ramsgate. occ. formerly dom serv. head(wid)
charles.j. age 24. b. ramsgate. occ. grocers shopman. son. (unm)
robert age 22. b. ditto. occ. mariner. son. (unm)
william age 20. b. ditto. occ.(looks like) book binder. son. (unm)
elizabeth age 15. b. ditto. occ. dress maker. daughter
james age 13. b. ditto. occ. errand boy. son
caroline age 10. b. ditto. daughter
sarah age 5. b. ditto. daughter
walter age 1. b. ditto. son
caroline ke--? age 21. b. herne,kent. occ. dom serv. visitor
living at;kent place,st.george,ramsgate,kent
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Sunday 22 August 10 18:42 BST (UK)
debbie
do you have the later census entries and bmds for the children
if not do you want me to see if i can find them
mick.
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: debbie_dw on Monday 23 August 10 05:11 BST (UK)
If it is not too much trouble, that would be great, thank you :)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 23 August 10 15:25 BST (UK)
on the 1851 there is a son walter aged 1
i am now beginning to wonder if this was in fact the child of robert the son and the visitor caroline
here is robert in 1861
1861
RG9/536/54/27
robert goldsmith age 32. b. ramsgate. occ. mariner. head
caroline age 31. b. herne,kent. wife
walter age 11. b. ramsgate. brother
gaylor reen/or keen age 7. b. herne. nephew.
matilda holness age 14. b. herne. visitor
living at;6,kent place,ramsgate,kent
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 23 August 10 15:27 BST (UK)
here is roberts marriage
name; robert george goldsmith
y.o.r. 1851
qtr; oct/nov/dec
dist; thanet
vol; 5
page; 739
on the same page; caroline keen
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 23 August 10 15:40 BST (UK)
roberts wife caroline dies young
death index
name; caroline goldsmith
y.o.r. 1862
qtr; oct/nov/dec
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 422

robert then remarries
marr index
name; robert goldsmith
y.o.r. 1866
qtr; apr/may/jun
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 1202
on the same page; sarah holland

here they are in 1871
1871
RG10/994/100/21
robert goldsmith age 42. b. ramsgate. occ. mariner. head
sarah age 33. b. margate. wife
alice holland age 11. b. norfolk. daughter(must be step daughter)
living at;7,cliff court,ramsgate,kent
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 23 August 10 15:52 BST (UK)
1881
RG11/987/102/23
robert goldsmith age 50. b. ramsgate. occ. mariner. head
sarah age 42. b. margate. wife
margaret lawrence age 54. b. margate. occ. laundress. sister.(probably sister of sarah)
living at; kent cottage,ramsgate,kent

interestingly you say on your opening post that one of the children of charles and maria was a richard goldsmith
there is a richard goldsmith on the next page of the above census entry aged 40 occ mariner born in ramsgate
here is the full entry for him
richard goldsmith age 40. b. ramsgate. occ. mariner. head
jane age 31. b. ditto. wife
eleanor age 8. b. ditto. daughter
margaret.a. age 5. b. ditto. daughter
alice age 4. b. ditto. daughter
janet.a. age 3. b. ditto. daughter
annie jorden age 14. b. ditto. occ. dom.serv.
living at;3,kent place,ramsgate

will try and follow richard  after we have completed robert
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 23 August 10 15:59 BST (UK)
1891
RG12/730/89/13
robert goldsmith age 61. b. ramsgate. occ. mariner. head
sarah age 54. b. margate. wife
alice hobday age 30. b. norfolk. daughter. (mar)(obviously this is the alice holland on the 1871)
living at;76,harbour street,st.george,ramsgate,kent
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 23 August 10 16:06 BST (UK)
by 1901 robert had died
here is his wife in 1901
1901
RG13/825/115/23
sarah.e. goldsmith age 63. b. margate. occ. lodging housekeeper. head(wid)
alice.e. hobday age 40. b. fincham,norfolk. occ. asst. housekeeper. daughter(wid)
adeline ashbee age 68. b. gloucs. occ. living on own means. lodger(mar)
alice temperley age 43. b. gloucs. occ. living on own means. lodger(wid)
living at;12,kent terrace,st.george,ramsgate,kent
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 23 August 10 16:11 BST (UK)
death index
name; robert george goldsmith
y.o.r. 1894
qtr; oct/nov/dec
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 517
age at death; 64(mistranscribed as 61 but 64 on actual image)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 23 August 10 16:23 BST (UK)
this is possibly the death of his wife
name; sarah elizabeth goldsmith
y.o.r. 1910
qtr; apr/may/jun
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 563
age at death; 74
est birth year; 1836
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 23 August 10 16:32 BST (UK)
with regard to the richard goldsmith
i think this one might have been the son of richard and susanna goldsmith
in 1841 this family are in preston by wingham. same area as your charles and maria were in in 1841
maybe the parent richard is the brother of your charles born c 1800
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 23 August 10 16:43 BST (UK)
think this might be charles and marias son william born c1831
you already have him in 1841 with his parents,1851 with his mother
here is 1861
1861
RG9/537/122/2
william edward goldsmith age 32. b. ramsgate. occ. boatman. head
elizabeth.m. age 25. b. ditto. wife
william edward age 4. b. ditto. son
james thomas age 2. b. ditto. son
edward james age 1mnth. b. ditto. son
living at;christchurch,ramsgate,kent
the writing on this census entry is terrible cannot make out the actual address all i can make out is;5,----- place
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 23 August 10 16:46 BST (UK)
here is the marr entry
name; william edward goldsmith
y.o.r. 1856
qtr; jul/aug/sept
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 974
on the same page; elizabeth mary cowell
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 23 August 10 16:52 BST (UK)
1871
RG10/996/13/20
william.e.goldsmith age 40. b. ramsgate. occ. boatman. head
elizabeth.m. age 35. b. ditto. occ. dress maker. wife
william.e. age 14. b. ditto. son
mary ann age 13. b. ditto. daughter
james thomas age 11. b. ditto. son
eliza jane age 6. b. ditto. daughter
caroline age 4. b. ditto. daughter
emily.m. age 2. b. ditto. daughter
living at;christchurch,ramsgate,kent
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 23 August 10 17:01 BST (UK)
1881
RG11/
william.e.goldsmith age 51. b. ramsgate. occ. mariner. head(age mistranscribed as 57 but is 51 on image)
elizabeth.m. age 45. b. ditto. occ. dress maker. wife
caroline age 14. b. ditto. daughter
emily age 13. b. ditto. daughter
alfred age 8. b. ditto. son
ellen age 4. b. ditto. daughter
living at; 1,albert cottages,st.george,ramsgate,kent
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 23 August 10 17:17 BST (UK)
i think this is them in 1891 but a couple of strange entries that i cannot work out
anyway let you decide
1891
RG12/730/91/18
william.t.goldsmith age 52. b. ramsgate. occ. boatman. head
elizabeth.m or n. age 42. b. ditto. occ. lodging housekeeper. wife
george.e.lay age 20. b. ditto. occ. fisherman. son
lily.e.goldsmith age 12. b. ditto. daughter
may age 10. b. ditto. daughter
florence.m. age 8. b. ditto. daughter
william age 6. b. ditto. son
living at;3,kent place,ramsgate,kent

interestingly this is the same address that the richard goldsmith was living at in 1881

maybe SKS could voice an opinion on this census entry.

having looked at the ages of this william and elizabeth maybe this is not the right family
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 23 August 10 17:23 BST (UK)
have not found a definite sighting of william or elizabeth after 1881
afraid i am stumped with william for now
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: casalguidi on Monday 23 August 10 21:17 BST (UK)
Quote
in 1841 this family are in preston by wingham. same area as your charles and maria were in in 1841

I would double check this ................. does the top of the page(s) say Ramsgate?

Casalguidi :)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: debbie_dw on Monday 23 August 10 23:01 BST (UK)
This is fantastic, thank you so much ;D
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 14:17 BST (UK)
casalguidi
the image on both entries in 1841  says parish/township; ramsgate
on both entries transcribed civil parish is ;preston by wingham
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 14:23 BST (UK)
jaames goldsmith born c 1838
you already have him in 1841 with parents and 1851 with mother
here he is in 1861
1861
RG9/4438/130/2
james freeman goldsmith age 23. b. ramsgate. occ. ordinary seaman, royal navy(unm)
address; kiukiang in the yangtse, kiang, china
aboard the ship; havoc
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 14:31 BST (UK)
1871
RG10/59/56/51
charles gibson age 44. b. shelley,suffolk. occ. gardener.  head
lydia age 35. b. bentley,suffolk. wife
henry age 9. b. kensington. son
matilda age 6. b. ditto. daughter
harriett age 5. b. ditto. daughter
emily age 3. b. ditto. daughter.
martha age 1. b. hammersmith. daughter
james.f.goldsmith age 33. b. ramsgate. occ. not given. lodger(unm)
living at;st.paul,hammersmith,middx
reg.dist; kensington
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: debbie_dw on Tuesday 24 August 10 14:34 BST (UK)
Wow!! thank you
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 14:35 BST (UK)
1881
RG11/40/44/37
james.f.goldsmith age 43. b. ramsgate. occ. general labourer.  head
harriett age 34. b. st.georges,middx. wife
john.p. age 7. b. kensington. son
grace age 5. b. kensington. daughter
sarah.e. age 1. b. ditto. daughter
living at;16,adair road,kensington,london
reg.dist; kensington
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 14:37 BST (UK)
here is the marriage index
name; james freeman goldsmith
y.o.r. 1872
qtr; apr/may/jun
dist; kensington
vol; 1a
page; 392
on the same page; harriet paul
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 14:40 BST (UK)
in case you do not have it here is james birth index
name; james freeman goldsmith
y.o.r. 1837
qtr; oct/nov/dec
dist; thanet
vol; 5
page; 350
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 14:44 BST (UK)
1891
RG12/29/89/29
james goldsmith age 53. b. ramsgate. occ. labourer. head
harriett age 44. b. london,oxford street. wife
john age 18. b. kensington. occ. clerk. son
grace age 15. b. ditto. daughter
sarah age 11. b. ditto. daughter
william age 8. b. ditto. son
living at;16,adair street,kensington town,kensington,london
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 15:03 BST (UK)
think this is the family in 1901
1901
RG13/558/29/50
harriett goldsmith age 54. b. hyde park,london. head(wid)
nellie age 21. b. north kensington. occ. domestic housemaid. daughter(unm)(if this is the right family then this probably sarah)
william age 18. b. ditto. occ. detective in confidential agency. son(unm)
living at;13,wells road,lewisham,london
reg.dist; lewisham

think this is the right family
sarah goldsmith the daughter her middle name was ellen (believe nellie is a nickname for ellen)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 15:06 BST (UK)
death index(right area for the family above in 1901 census)
name; james freeman goldsmith
y.o.r. 1900
qtr; jan/feb/mar
dist; lewisham
vol; 1d
page; 927
age at death; 64
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 15:09 BST (UK)
possibly wifes death
name; harriett goldsmith
y.o.r. 1906
qtr; apr/may/jun
dist; lewisham
vol; 1d
page; 617
age at death; 60
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 15:14 BST (UK)
on the 1851 there is a son walter aged 1
i am now beginning to wonder if this was in fact the child of robert the son and the visitor caroline
here is robert in 1861
1861
RG9/536/54/27
robert goldsmith age 32. b. ramsgate. occ. mariner. head
caroline age 31. b. herne,kent. wife
walter age 11. b. ramsgate. brother
gaylor reen/or keen age 7. b. herne. nephew.
matilda holness age 14. b. herne. visitor
living at;6,kent place,ramsgate,kent
walter is not the son as posted here he is as you say on your first post the brother of robert and the son of charles and maria it does actually say brother and not son as posted here will amend
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 15:26 BST (UK)
the only censuses i can find with walter on are the 1851 with parents and 1861 with his brother robert
here is his birth index
name; walter joseph goldsmith
y.o.r. 1849
qtr; apr/may/jun
dist; thanet
vol; 5
page; 522
cannot find anything else about him no death or marriage
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 15:38 BST (UK)
the eldest son charles born c1827
can only find him on 1841,1851 with parents charles and maria
no further sign of him on any records
will go onto the daughters of charles and maria
maria born c 1834
elizabeth born c 1836
caroline born c 1841
sarah born c 1846
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 15:44 BST (UK)
you have maria in 1841 with her parents
here she is in 1851
1851
HO107/1630/447/3
thomas griggs age 64. b. doddington,kent. occ. ironmonger. head(wid)
thomas.g.griggs age 30. b. ramsgate. occ. brazier and tinman. son(mar)
catherine.a.griggs age 31. b. ditto. sons wife
thomas.w.griggs age 3. b. ditto. grandson
henry.h.griggs age 1. b. ditto. grandson
maria ann goldsmith age 17. b. ditto. occ. house servant
living at;6,king street,st.george,ramsgate,kent
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 16:24 BST (UK)
nothing more on maria
elizabeth you have in 1841,1851 with parents charles and maria
nothing more on her either
caroline you have with parents 1841,1851
here is her birth index
name; caroline frances goldsmith
y.o.r. 1841
qtr; jan/feb/mar
dist; thanet
vol; 5
page; 462

nothing else on her
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 16:34 BST (UK)
deleted this was not your sarah
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 24 August 10 16:55 BST (UK)
that is it debbie i can find nothing else
on the immediate family of charles and maria
i could possibly find more on the childrens sons and daughters if you want to expand on this family
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: debbie_dw on Wednesday 25 August 10 11:51 BST (UK)
I cannot thank you enough for all the time and effort you have put in doing this research for me. A week ago I hardly knew any of these people existed. Now my family has multiplied by heaps. Thank you once again  ;D :)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: debbie_dw on Wednesday 25 August 10 12:28 BST (UK)
If you ever have any spare time I would appreciate anything else you could find. One question Elizabeth Pullen Goldsmith daughter of Charles & Maria I was wondering where the Pullen cames from?
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 25 August 10 15:35 BST (UK)
1871
RG10/996/13/20
william.e.goldsmith age 40. b. ramsgate. occ. boatman. head
elizabeth.m. age 35. b. ditto. occ. dress maker. wife
william.e. age 14. b. ditto. son
mary ann age 13. b. ditto. daughter
james thomas age 11. b. ditto. son
eliza jane age 6. b. ditto. daughter
caroline age 4. b. ditto. daughter
emily.m. age 2. b. ditto. daughter
living at;christchurch,ramsgate,kent
will look for the children of william and elizabeth posted here
will begin with caroline b. c 1867
you have her with her parents william and elizabeth in 1871 and 1881
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 25 August 10 15:44 BST (UK)
caroline marries in the first qtr 1888 in thanet reg dist to an edward standen
here is the 1891 census husband not there.
1891
RG12/731/64/29
caroline standen age 24. b. ramsgate. wife(mar)
george edward standen age 1. b. herne bay. son
living at;st.pauls,ramsgate,kent
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 25 August 10 16:05 BST (UK)
1901
RG13/825/30/8
caroline standing age 34. b. ramsgate. occ. charwoman. head(mar)
george age 11. b. herne bay. son
living at;7,union place,st.george,ramsgate,kent

at 4,union place there is an emily standing age 19 born ramsgate visiting a rosa robins
wonder if emily standing is some relation of caroline's husband george standen/standing and george is a fisherman and away from home when this and the 1891 census were taken
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 25 August 10 16:09 BST (UK)
this could be carolines death index
name; caroline.e.standen
y.o.r. 1934
qtr; oct/nov/dec
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 1311
age at death; 68
est birth year; 1866

cannot find anything at all on her husband apart from the marriage
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 25 August 10 16:18 BST (UK)
and here is possibly the son of caroline
death index
age ,place,name seems to fit perfectly with what we know from 1891,1901 census entries
death index
name; george.e.standen
y.o.r. 1947
qtr; jan/feb/mar
dist; thanet
vol; 5b
page; 1124
age at death; 57
est birth year; 1890
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 25 August 10 16:24 BST (UK)
this is just a possibility
marriage index
name; george.e.standen
y.o.r; 1934
qtr; jul/aug/sept
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 3804
spouse; violet.n.o'connell

this couple had one child that i can see
if you want further info regarding the birth,etc of this child
it will have to be done via personal message system(due to the fact it might involve living people)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 25 August 10 16:26 BST (UK)
If you ever have any spare time I would appreciate anything else you could find. One question Elizabeth Pullen Goldsmith daughter of Charles & Maria I was wondering where the Pullen cames from?
cannot find where the name pullen comes from maybe it was either charles or marias mothers maiden name?
how do you know her middle name was pullen have you her baptismal record?
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 25 August 10 16:35 BST (UK)
will continue on with the other children of william and elizabeth
either tonight or to-morrow
william.e. born c 1857. you have him in 1871 with parents
mary ann born c 1858.   ditto
james thomas born c 1860.  ditto
eliza jane born c 1865.  ditto
emily.m. born c. 1869. you have her in 1871,1881 with parents
alfred born c. 1873. you have him in 1881 with parents
ellen born c. 1877. you have her in 1881 with parents
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Friday 27 August 10 11:57 BST (UK)
will start with william.e. goldsmith
here is the birth index
name; william edward goldsmith
y.o.r. 1856
qtr; oct/nov/dec
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 581

by 1881 william was married
1881
RG11/989/19/32
william goldsmith age 24. b. ramsgate. occ. boatman. head
eliza age 23. b. sevenoaks,kent. wife
william age 2. b. minster,kent. son
living at;14a,rodney street,ramsgate,kent

here is the marriage
william edward goldsmith/eliza silk
y.o.r. 1879
qtr; oct/nov/dec
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 1567
elizas parents were edward and philidelphia silk
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Friday 27 August 10 12:13 BST (UK)
1891
RG12/732/124/18
william.e.goldsmith age 35. b. ramsgate. occ. fish labourer (looks like it says at the docks). head
eliza age 32. b. sevenoaks. wife
william.e. age 12. b. ramsgate. son
james.e. age 10. b. ditto. son
frederick. age 1. b. ditto. son
living at;1,kent terrace,,st.lawrence,ramsgate,kent

Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Friday 27 August 10 12:32 BST (UK)
1901
think this is them
transcribed as goldmidt
RG13/827/90/31
william goldsmith age 45. b. ramsgate. occ. fruiterer. head
eliza age 43. b. maidstone. wife
frederick age 12. b. ramsgate. son
living at;31,flora road,st.lawrence,ramsgate,kent(occupying 1 room at this address)

the son james aged 10 on 1891 census
here he is in 1901
1901
RG13/5327/138/26
james goldsmith age 19. b. ramsgate. occ. stoker 2nd class,royal navy
address; aboard the ship"mars" stationed at gibralter
just out of interest; james mother is eliza silk
also a stoker aboard the ship "mars" is a edward silk aged 20 born bristol(could be a co-incidence or maybe some relation of james?)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Friday 27 August 10 12:47 BST (UK)
possibly the death of william born c. 1857
name. william.e.goldsmith
y.o.r. 1918
qtr; jul/aug/sept
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 1124
age at death; 60

and this is the only death of an eliza goldsmith that comes close either before 1915 or after 1915
name; eliza goldsmith
y.o.r. 1929
qtr; apr/may/jun
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 1305
age at death; 72
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Friday 27 August 10 13:04 BST (UK)
think i might have the marriage of william and elizas sons william.e. and frederick
also the death of frederick
if you want them i will post them here

if not i will continue later on with the other  children of william born c 1831 and elizabeth born c 1836
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: debbie_dw on Friday 27 August 10 13:23 BST (UK)
Hi I have found that Maria Goldsmith b c1833 & her sisters Caroline b c1841 & Elizabeth b c 1835 all left England and came to Australia in the early 1850's and Mary Louisa b 1843 d 1845 Ramsgate, also Richard Daniel Goldsmith b & d 1832 Ramsgate. Hope this helps Deb. Thanks again for info you just sent
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: crimea1854 on Saturday 28 August 10 07:35 BST (UK)
Hi

Returning to James Freeman Goldsmith, he is on the medal roll for the 2nd China Medal, awarded while serving on HMS Havoc as an Ordinary Seaman (Ships No.25). This medal was issued with the Taku Fort 1860 clasp. He was invalided on 13/11/1862.

His service record is available online at the NA.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=8330782&queryType=1&resultcount=15

Martin
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: debbie_dw on Saturday 28 August 10 07:43 BST (UK)
Thank you :)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Saturday 28 August 10 16:05 BST (UK)
will continue with emily daughter of william/elizabeth
here is her birth index
name; emily maria goldsmith
y.o.r. 1868
qtr; jul/aug/sept
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 810
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Saturday 28 August 10 16:08 BST (UK)
you already have emily with her parents in 1871,1881
here is her marriage
name; emily maria goldsmith
y.o.r. 1890
qtr; apr/may/jun
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 1494
spouse; charles grocock
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Saturday 28 August 10 16:20 BST (UK)
here they are in 1891
1891
RG12/731/109
charles growcock age 23. b. london. occ. mariner. head
emily age 23. b. ramsgate. wife
charles age 3mnths. b. ramsgate. son
lewey darling(female) age 19. b. folkestone. occ. dressmaker. lodger.(mar)
william darling age 1. b. ramsgate. lodgers son
living at;2,whites cottages,ramsgate,kent
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Saturday 28 August 10 16:32 BST (UK)
the only other thing i can find is the sons birth
name; charles james growcock
y.o.r. 1891
qtr; jan/feb/mar
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 964
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Saturday 28 August 10 16:44 BST (UK)
mary ann goldsmith born c. 1858 daughter of william/elizabeth
you have her in 1871 with parents
possibly her in 1881
1881
RG11/988/123/30
john smith age 71. b. ramsgate. occ. carpenter. head
ann.b.smith age 71. b. ramsgate. wife
mary goldsmith age 23. b. ramsgate. occ. general domestic servant.(unm)
living at; 2,rose hill,ramsgate,kent

here is mary's marriage
name; mary ann goldsmith
y.o.r. 1882
qtr. jan/feb/mar.
vol; 2a
page; 1056
spouse; joseph dyason smith(wonder if this could be the son or some other relation of john and ann smith)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Saturday 28 August 10 16:51 BST (UK)
here they are in 1891
RG12/731/109/11
joseph smith age 29. b. whitstable,kent. occ. labourer.  head
mary age 33. b. ramsgate. wife
mary age 8. b. ditto. daughter
john age 4. b. ditto. son
helen age 2. b. ditto. daughter
emily age 2. b. ditto. daughter
elizabeth age 1mnth. b. ditto. daughter
living at;3,kent cottages,christchurch,ramsgate,kent(kent cottages seems to turn up quite a lot in the goldsmith history)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Saturday 28 August 10 17:08 BST (UK)
looks like mary ann dies before the 1901 census
going by this census she dies about 1900
1901
RG13/825/30/9
joseph smith age 38. b. whitstable. occ. engoine driver(stationery). head(wid)
mary age 18. b. ramsgate. daughter
john age 14. b. ditto. son
helen age 12. b. ditto. daughter
emily age 12. b. ditto. daughter
elizabeth age 9. b. ditto. daughter
rose age 5. b. ditto. daughter
james age 1. b. ditto. son
living at;5,union place,st.george,ramsgate,kent (this is next door to the emily standing/standen who was visiting in 1901 at 4,union place. See reply#48)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Saturday 28 August 10 17:12 BST (UK)
here is marys death index
name; mary ann smith
y.o.r. 1900
qtr; oct/nov/dec
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 551
age at death; 42
est birth year; 1858
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Saturday 28 August 10 17:21 BST (UK)
think this could be josephs death
name; joseph.d.smith
y.o.r. 1936
qtr; apr/may/jun
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 1411
age at death; 74
est birth year 1862
everthing seems to add up with this entry
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Saturday 28 August 10 17:29 BST (UK)
next up ellen.l.goldsmith daughter of william/elizabeth born c. 1877
this is the only birth i can find that might fit.
name; eleanor louisa goldsmith
y.o.r. 1877
qtr;jan/feb/mar
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 909
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Saturday 28 August 10 17:45 BST (UK)
the nexxt definite sighting is a marriage
name; ellen louisa goldsmith
y.o.r. 1898
qtr; jul/aug/sept
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 1823
i think the husband is edward henry danton
but no definite proof
there is a helen danton with husband edward danton on the 1901 census
but although she states born in ramsgate she gives age as 27 (should be 24 to be sure this is your ellen goldsmith)
maybe if i can find her death it will give birth date closer to 1877)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Saturday 28 August 10 17:48 BST (UK)
she dies in 1947 aged 74 so again birthdate is 1873ish
so no proof this is your ellen
the only thing is on the 1901 census the helen danton states born in ramsgate in 1873
and if the marriage posted is correct then i can find no birth of an helen/eleanor/ellen goldsmith in thanet in between 1871-1881 apart from your eleanor louise born 1877
the only way you would know for sure if the marriage is yours would be to get the marr cert
or get someone to look up the actual marriage
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Saturday 28 August 10 21:16 BST (UK)
next up eliza jane born c 1865

here is the birth index
name; eliza jane goldsmith
y.o.r. 1864
qtr; apr/may/jun
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 711

you already have her in 1871 with parents william/elizabeth
will have a look for her in 1881 later on tonight
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Sunday 29 August 10 13:29 BST (UK)
eliza marries in 1886 in thanet reg dist to a alfred james blandford
alfred is stationed at ramsgate in 1881 he is in the royal navy at this time
states born in london 1862
here is eliza after her marriage
1891
RG12/730/39/27
eliza blandford age 27. b. ramsgate. mariners wife
edith age 4. b. ramsgate. daughter
eliza age 2. b. ditto. daughter
living at;6,boundary road,ramsgate,kent
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Sunday 29 August 10 13:38 BST (UK)
1901
RG13/825/30/7
alfred blandford age 39. b. london. occ. brewery labourer. head
eliza age 36. b. ramsgate. wife
edith age 14. b. ditto. occ. dom serv. daughter
eliza age 12. b. ditto. daughter
sidney age 7. b. ditto. son
living at;1,union place,st.george,ramsgate,kent(same street as eliza's sister mary ann's husband joseph smith was living in in 1901)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Sunday 29 August 10 15:36 BST (UK)
death index
name; eliza.j.blandford
y.o.r. 1949
qtr; jan/feb/mar
dist; thanet
vol; 5b
page; 948
age at death; 84
est birth year; 1866

death index
name; alfred.j.blandford
y.o.r. 1936
qtr; oct/nov/dec
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 1395
age at death; 75
est birth year; 1861
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Sunday 29 August 10 15:50 BST (UK)
will go on with the sons of william/elizabeth
you already have full info on the eldest son william.e.goldsmith born c 1857
will continue on with james thomas goldsmith born c. 1859
you already have him with parents in 1861,1871
here he is in 1881
1881
RG11/989/18/30
benjamin bennett age 24. b. ramsgate. occ. labourer. head
eliza bennett age 23. b. boreham,essex. wife
louisa bennett age 3. b. danbury,essex. daughter
benjamin bennett age 8mnths. b. ramsgate. son
james goldsmith age 22. b. ramsgate. occ. labourer. lodger(unm)
living at;30,rodney street,christchurch,ramsgate,kent
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Sunday 29 August 10 18:49 BST (UK)
james marries in 1881 4th qtr to helen caroline westgate at thanet reg dist
here they are in 1891
1891
RG12/731/99/26
james.t.goldsmith age 30. b. ramsgate. occ. carter. head
helen age 30. b. norwich. wife
helen age 8. b. ramsgate. daughter
james age 7. b. ditto. son
alfred age 6. b. ditto. son
william age 4. b. ditto. son
alice age 1. b. ditto. daughter
living at;rodney cottage,christchurch,ramsgate
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Sunday 29 August 10 19:07 BST (UK)
1901
RG13/825/161/10
james goldsmith age 41. b. ramsgate. occ. coal porter(carman). head
helen age 42. b. ditto?. wife
james age 17. b. ditto. occ. coal porter(carman). son
alfred age 16. b. ditto. occ. ditto. son
william age 14. b. ditto. occ. chemists errand boy. son
alice age 11. b. ditto. daughter
albert age 4. b. ditto. son
living at;7,leeds terrace,st.paul,ramsgate,kent

the eldest child helen aged 8 on the 1891 census dies in thanet reg dist in 1900
here is james death index
name; james.t.goldsmith
y.o.r.1919
qtr; jul/aug/sept
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 955
age at death; 60
est birth year; 1859

cannot find the death of the wife of james thomas goldsmith
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Sunday 29 August 10 19:26 BST (UK)
that just leaves alfred goldsmith born c 1873
his middle name was john and his birth was actually regd in apr/may/jun 1872 in thanet
you already have him with his parents william/elizabeth in 1881
there is only 1 alfred goldsmith birth regd in thanet between 1867-1877
this is the only one i can see in 1891 that might be him the only problem with this entry is that there is a george goldsmith and mary goldsmith in the same household
1891
RG12/731/110/14
george lucas age 38. b. ramsgate. occ. labourer. head
emily lucas age 35. b. ditto. wife
george lucas age 13. b. ditto. son
emma lucas age 8. b. ditto. daughter
richard lucas age 7. b. ditto. son
william lucas age 6. b. ditto. son.
george goldsmith age 61. b. ramsgate. lodger(mar)
mary goldsmith age 65. b. ditto. lodger.(mar)
nelly goldsmith age 13. b. ditto. lodger
alfred goldsmith age 18. b. ditto. occ. domestic servant. lodger
living at;13,james passage,christchurch,ramsgate,kent
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Sunday 29 August 10 19:33 BST (UK)
alfred marries in 1894 in thanet reg dist to a mary rye
here they are in 1901
1901
RG13/827/114/32
alfred goldsmith age 28. b. ramsgate. occ. general labourer. head
mary age 28. b. lower stourmouth,kent. wife
alfred age 6. b. ramsgate. son
george age 3. b. ditto. son
emily age 2mnths. b. ditto. daughter
living at;58,alexandra road,ramsgate,kent(occupying 2 rooms in this house)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Sunday 29 August 10 19:37 BST (UK)
here is alfreds death index
name; alfred.j.goldsmith
y.o.r. 1949
qtr; apr/may/jun
dist; thanet
vol; 5b
page; 734
age at death; 77
est birth year; 1872
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Sunday 29 August 10 19:48 BST (UK)
and this could well be his wifes death everything seems to fit
name; mary goldsmith
y.o.r. 1936
qtr; jan/feb/mar
dist; thanet
vol; 2a
page; 1810
age at death; 63
est birth year; 1873

that is all william and elizabeth goldsmiths children.
mick
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: debbie_dw on Thursday 02 September 10 11:32 BST (UK)
Thank you very much for all your help. Deb
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: debbie_dw on Monday 06 September 10 10:52 BST (UK)
I was just wondering if you found anything of Walter Joseph Goldsmith b 1849 and Sarah Ellen Goldsmith both are children of Charles & Maria Goldsmith :)
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 06 September 10 16:40 BST (UK)
cannot find walter after 1861 on any records in england all i could find was his birth reg in 1849 and the census records in 1851 with parents and 1861 with his brother

there is a joseph goldsmith on the 1881 census states born in ramsgate 1848
there are only 2 josephs's born in thanet reg dist between 1843-1853
one is walter joseph goldsmith born 1849 and the other is joseph goldsmith born 1843
maybe this 1881 census entry is walter using joseph as his first name
i have had a look for a joseph goldsmith born ramsgate c1848 on censuses 1851,1861
and there does not appear to be one
so there is a strong possibility that the joseph goldsmith on the 1881 might be your walter.
if you want me to try and follow this person(in the hope some later censuses might give some clues to whether this is your man) i will
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: wozzle on Monday 06 September 10 16:50 BST (UK)
with regard to sarah
the only census i can find her on is 1851
between 1851-1861 there are 3 deaths in thanet reg dist of a sarah goldsmith
she could have been one of those
on each of these deaths the name is down as just sarah goldsmith
because it is so early it does not give a est birth year
Title: Re: Charles Goldsmith & Maria Freeman
Post by: debbie_dw on Saturday 17 December 11 09:30 GMT (UK)
Would you be able to see if Walter is on any censuses after 1881 please. We know he was in Australia for awhile in the 1860's but disappears maybe he did go back to England.